Dexter's New Member Background & Questions

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Nicole&DexterB

Member Since 2022
Hello all! My name is Nicole aka Dexter's Mom. Dexter is a 5 year old male domestic shorthair rescue ive had since he was about 3-4 weeks old. Fast forward a few years and he is now a newly diagnosed sugar baby weighing in at 14 lbs after a stent at the emergency vet hospital on 7/15/22. A few weeks prior I noticed he was hovering the cat bowl a bit more but figured it was normal chonky self since I have another cat at well. Dexter always had to be first to the bowls pre diagnosis since I used to free feed but still only twice daily then. I went downstairs one evening to where the litter boxes are and came across a few piles of vomit from who I assumed to be Dexter. There was an increase in pee but with having 2 males I had a hard time noticing this sign since I figured they kept competing to be the last one to mark the spot kinda thing. Dexter always played with the water fountain prior to diagnosis so him being at the fountain never crossed my mind. After this I tried changing food around a bit hoping it was a simple change in him not liking the food anymore; with 2 gradual food changes nothing was changing and I was starting to worry more as to what could be wrong. Dexter was also laying in spots he normally doesn't lay in and not being as cuddly as he would be randomly throughout the day. With his nose being dry on 7/14 that night, I knew that was the last sign i needed and took him to the vet hospital next day since I couldnt get him in last minute with his primary vet.

The day I took him to the hospital it was determined he was diabetic with a slight kidney disease to boot. He ended up being in the hospital for two days before I brought him home while he was monitored and got his insulin on a starting dose for him by the hospital vets. A month later he is doing a lot better, allowing me to take his BG levels, eating well again and seeming to go back to his normal self. He has been on 1.5u of Glargine 2x daily since diagnosis. I have gotten him to 3 cans of Fancy Feast of day; 2 full cans, 1 can spilt for two small meals during the day if he wants it. He mostly goes for seafood pates and beef/liver slightly watered down but not alot. I mix in tuna sometimes since its high in some things and chicken as well even though chicken isnt his favorite. I have been trying to test before each injection, each small meal and if I can sneak another one or two I can since we are on a later feed schedule with my work.

Pheww, ok so that's the backstory! Before this he was rather healthy but a little chonky which we were working on. Now for a few questions I have after seeing some good number since starting home monitoring this week. I think I linked my spreadsheet correctly but please advise if not or any questions.

Since i started home monitoring Dexter we have been seeing very good numbers in the 70s-89 so far with only one small dip in the 60s. Does this mean he is heading towards remission already this soon? Could it be as simple as a diet change for him? Lastly, I’m not understanding the insulin decrease in dosage part fully or which dosing method would be best to use for Dexter. Should I start lowering his dosing this early into him being diabetic? I’m worried he could be getting a little too much insulin with the way his numbers have been since home monitoring but not completely sure how to determine that.

I will be making a follow up appointment with his primary vet for their opinion on how he is doing so far too.
 
Welcome Nicole and Dexter

@Nicole&DexterB
Can you please read the dosing methods and see which one you want to follow and add it to your signature and spreadsheet
Great job setting up your signature and spreadsheet
Dexter's numbers look amazing
I am going to tag some experienced members for you
What were you feeding before the Fancy Feast ?
You mentioned a slight kidney disease?

Can you take a pic of his blood work and post it here so members can see what the numbers were for his kidneys
With kidney issues FF is high in phosphorus which isn't the best to feed with kidney disease. Once you post his labs the members will have some suggestions on low carb/ low phosphorus wet foods

We don't like to feed a lot of seafood flavors because of mercury in it
Feed it only once a week
There are other flavors of FF pates he might like such as beef, Fancy feast classic chopped grill

About the dosing methods I'll give you the link please read it
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

Just a quick explanation about the dosing methods but read them anywsy
SLGS: You hold a dose for 7 days (unless a reduction is earned). You decrease the dose when the BG falls below 90. The aim of this protocol is to keep the cat in the 90-150 range. This is more suited for caregivers who can't test as much as TR requires. You do a weekly curve with SLGS.

TR is a more aggressive protocol with increases as often as every 3-5 days. Reductions are earned when the BG falls below 50 for nearly diagnosed kitties)
After a year after being diagnosed he is considered a long term diabetic
. The aim is to keep the cat in the range of 50-100 (which is the normal BG range for cats). To follow TR, you would need to get at least one more test per cycle in addition to the pre-shot one i.e. 2 tests per cycle or 4 tests per day. You would also need to be feeding only LC canned food and no dry food.

Sure looks like he has a great chance to go into remission
If you were to follow SLGS you would reduce his dose , new dose would be 1.25 units since his BG fell under 90

TR has a better chance for remission

If the members I tagged suggest feeding Weruva wet food
going by his kidney values here is some info for you
With weruva foods
You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts.
https://weruva.com


For diabetic cats and cats that have elevated kidney values
You want to feed low phosphorous wet food

When you go to the weruva site and click on one of the pics of the food , click on Detailed Nutrition information that is under guaranteed analysis to the left
YOU WANT CARBS UNDER 10% AND PHOSPHORUS IDEALLY LOW 200's OR LESS

Go to this thread , there are a lot of weruva foods listed here in post #3 , post numbers are to the left
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/kidney-disease.262271/#post-2940026

Also
https://www.soulisticpet.com/nutritional-information-pate
I think you look under the same two places like in the Weruva to get the carbs and phosphorus %

If Dexter likes Pate here are the weruva pages
Take a look here https://weruva.com/nutrition-landing/pates-ni/

Try not to feed a lot of fish flavors , once a week is fine
EDIT
Forget about the FF Chopped grilled feast pate it's too high in phosphorus

@Nicole&DexterB
 

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Hi and welcome to the group! @Diane Tyler's Mom with Dexter's kidney issues, they probably want to avoid almost all flavors of Fancy Feast pates, unfortunately. They are all really high in phosphorus. Many are 400-500. Chopped grill feast is 498!

Most experts agree a cat with kidney issues or chronic kidney disease should be fed a diet of foods with less than 200mg phosphorus/100kcal or less than .5%.

Nicole I have to commend you, what a great job you are doing with Dexter already! When I joined this group I was way way behind. Couldn't figure out how to do an ear poke for a while. With him being so young, a lot of times that increases the chance of diabetic remission. His spreadsheet has lots of numbers in it that are within the normal bg range of a non-diabetic cat, that is awesome. His current dose may even be too much insulin -- I will let one of the gurus comment on that.

I would highly recommend following the Tight Regulation dosing method and see if you can get him into remission. He might already be heading that way so if you pick up TR now you could be in luck! TR means you have to test a good bit but you are doing that already. I think Dexter has a great chance here!

This website is great for finding foods that a diabetic kitty can eat AND are lower in phosphorus to be easier on the kidneys:

https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php
 
Hi and welcome to the group! @Diane Tyler's Mom with Dexter's kidney issues, they probably want to avoid almost all flavors of Fancy Feast pates, unfortunately. They are all really high in phosphorus. Many are 400-500. Chopped grill feast is 498!

Most experts agree a cat with kidney issues or chronic kidney disease should be fed a diet of foods with less than 200mg phosphorus/100kcal or less than .5%.

Nicole I have to commend you, what a great job you are doing with Dexter already! When I joined this group I was way way behind. Couldn't figure out how to do an ear poke for a while. With him being so young, a lot of times that increases the chance of diabetic remission. His spreadsheet has lots of numbers in it that are within the normal bg range of a non-diabetic cat, that is awesome. His current dose may even be too much insulin -- I will let one of the gurus comment on that.

I would highly recommend following the Tight Regulation dosing method and see if you can get him into remission. He might already be heading that way so if you pick up TR now you could be in luck! TR means you have to test a good bit but you are doing that already. I think Dexter has a great chance here!

This website is great for finding foods that a diabetic kitty can eat AND are lower in phosphorus to be easier on the kidneys:

https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php
Hi Kyle wow I didn't even bother to look at the phosphorus for the FF chopped grill feast classic pate , I gave Nicole the list of Weruva foods above
 
Hello all! My name is Nicole aka Dexter's Mom. Dexter is a 5 year old male domestic shorthair rescue ive had since he was about 3-4 weeks old. Fast forward a few years and he is now a newly diagnosed sugar baby weighing in at 14 lbs after a stent at the emergency vet hospital on 7/15/22. A few weeks prior I noticed he was hovering the cat bowl a bit more but figured it was normal chonky self since I have another cat at well. Dexter always had to be first to the bowls pre diagnosis since I used to free feed but still only twice daily then. I went downstairs one evening to where the litter boxes are and came across a few piles of vomit from who I assumed to be Dexter. There was an increase in pee but with having 2 males I had a hard time noticing this sign since I figured they kept competing to be the last one to mark the spot kinda thing. Dexter always played with the water fountain prior to diagnosis so him being at the fountain never crossed my mind. After this I tried changing food around a bit hoping it was a simple change in him not liking the food anymore; with 2 gradual food changes nothing was changing and I was starting to worry more as to what could be wrong. Dexter was also laying in spots he normally doesn't lay in and not being as cuddly as he would be randomly throughout the day. With his nose being dry on 7/14 that night, I knew that was the last sign i needed and took him to the vet hospital next day since I couldnt get him in last minute with his primary vet.

The day I took him to the hospital it was determined he was diabetic with a slight kidney disease to boot. He ended up being in the hospital for two days before I brought him home while he was monitored and got his insulin on a starting dose for him by the hospital vets. A month later he is doing a lot better, allowing me to take his BG levels, eating well again and seeming to go back to his normal self. He has been on 1.5u of Glargine 2x daily since diagnosis. I have gotten him to 3 cans of Fancy Feast of day; 2 full cans, 1 can spilt for two small meals during the day if he wants it. He mostly goes for seafood pates and beef/liver slightly watered down but not alot. I mix in tuna sometimes since its high in some things and chicken as well even though chicken isnt his favorite. I have been trying to test before each injection, each small meal and if I can sneak another one or two I can since we are on a later feed schedule with my work.

Pheww, ok so that's the backstory! Before this he was rather healthy but a little chonky which we were working on. Now for a few questions I have after seeing some good number since starting home monitoring this week. I think I linked my spreadsheet correctly but please advise if not or any questions.

Since i started home monitoring Dexter we have been seeing very good numbers in the 70s-89 so far with only one small dip in the 60s. Does this mean he is heading towards remission already this soon? Could it be as simple as a diet change for him? Lastly, I’m not understanding the insulin decrease in dosage part fully or which dosing method would be best to use for Dexter. Should I start lowering his dosing this early into him being diabetic? I’m worried he could be getting a little too much insulin with the way his numbers have been since home monitoring but not completely sure how to determine that.

I will be making a follow up appointment with his primary vet for their opinion on how he is doing so far too.

Tagging experienced members for you
@Wendy&Neko

@tiffmaxee

@Bron and Sheba (GA)

@Sienne and Gabby (GA)

@Suzanne & Darcy

Ladies I gave her some info above post #2 , can you make sure I didn't give her any incorrect information. Thanks ladies

Sure looks like her kitty could be headed for remission
 
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@Suzanne & Darcy

@tiffmaxee

@Wendy&Neko

@Bron and Sheba (GA)

@Sienne and Gabby (GA)

I'm trying to help this new member but no one has replied back to her since yesterday

I do understand that everyone is busy :cat:
Hi Ladies can you please read post #5 I don't know if anyone has gotten the tags for this new member , but her kitty sure looks like he is headed for remission
I see she shot 1.25 this morning and I explained the dosing methods to her but she hasn't responded yet
 
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Hello! Sorry for my delay, today was a little hectic.

Im attaching the numbers I have from the day he was in the hospital. His scans showed left kidney as mildly enlarged and I havent had any new tests since.

Before FF I was feeding him Purina One +Plus with Salmon or Chicken as well as my other cat. Flavor depended what they had in stock at the store at the time. My non-sugar baby is still on this but if a better food is suggested I will take it for him! I am trying to better his food as well going forward for him.

That is good to know about FF being a little higher and possibly not the best with his kidney problem possibly. I looked into TIki Cat for him to but he was not about the real looking food pieces; neither was I tho nor the smell ha I had looked into Weruva and thought about trying that next but finding the better flavors for him is like a mad hunt of driving here then driving there around me. I found a couple more places around me that sell the different kinds under Weruva that im going to check tomorrow after work.

He is more of a pate cat for sure so hoping he like the Weruva choices better once I track them down. I hadnt looked into soulistic pet yet but have seen it on the shelves so ill be looking more into that for sure. Looking over the above referenced sites and forum page will be super helpful for finding them, thank you!

The dosings methods im thinking of going the TR route but more explained. I dont have the best comprehension always just by reading these articles sent so bare with me. Where do I start/go from where im already at with him going based of his SS sheet?

Remission is definitely the goal if I can achieve it for him!

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Hi Nicole andDexter and welcome to the forum.
Dexter is doing amazingly well for a newly diagnosed kitty. He is having lovely flat curves. Now that you have dropped the dose to 1.25 units, I would stay with that dose unless he drops under 50 in which case you would reduce the dose to 1 unit if you are following TR which I would recommend you do. If he drops under 50 you will need to give some higher carb food and retest in 20 minutes.
If you decide to do TR can you change the signature to reflect that please.
Do you have a hypo kit set up in case it is needed? You will need some honey or karo and some higher carb food as well as some test strips and the ER /vet phone number.

He does look as if he could go into remission a bit further down the track but you want to make sure it is a strong remission… that is very important. So to do that you will need to follow TR and reduce when indicated and go down to 1 unit, 0.75, 0.5, 0.25, 0.1, a drop. That way you will get a strong remission. Don’t let the vet talk you into stopping insulin now. He’s not there yet.
Try and get a couple of tests in during all cycles if you can. You are doing a fantastic job!
 
For your hypo kit
Between 11% and 17% is medium carbs.

18% and over is high carb. and some honey
Look on the weruva site or the soulistic link I gave you and see if you can find the higher carbs but lower phosphorous
 
Bron suggested posting on the Lantus and I agree ,there are a lot of experienced Lantus users there

, if you plan on posting on the Lantus board from now on
Here is how you would do it
So if you start tomorrow morning you put the
Date, Dexter AMPS # and any other tests you do after that like the BG number @+2 ,etc
To go back and add those tests to your title look to the right and you will see the word Thread Tools tap on that then tap on Edit Title , add those tests and tap save
You can continue with his PMPS numbers on the same title :cat:
We also link your previous days post to the new one
 
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