Desperate situation

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Karpeta Elena

Member Since 2019
Hello everyone,

I’m writing from Athens and I am in a desperate situation because of my beloved 11years cat Ricky. I’ll try to explain the situation the best I can . In November my cat showed great difficulty eating I took her to the vet and I found out that she has gingivitis. From December she has had cortisone shots,that made her feel better for approximately 10days . Two weeks ago she felt very badly (she couldn’t walk)the vet measured her blood sugar and it was 430 the next day after the shot it was 130 . Since then she has had a shot everyday (caninsulin 4 lines) and every time the doctor measures her blood sugar it’s around 400 . She was eating since then a little bit,but she was making a very strange sound as if she was chewing bones. On Friday she’s stopped eating showing pain . I managed to give her some milk. Today is Sunday she hasn’t eaten anything she’s aggressive and trying to hide from me. What do you think that horrible sound mean...her teeth are breaking??? Could you please help me save my Ricky
 
I'm new to this myself..
How are you testing? At home or just at the vet?
Has a curve been performed? A Blood glucose reading before the shot and then every two hours after the shot to see how she was reacting.
What are you feeding her? If dry food then switch to low carb wet food .
 
I think most here would reccomend the following. Get a blood glucose test machine and test strips from the pharmacy. For humans.
Do a curve. That way you know how she's reacting to the insulin.
Are you injecting at home or is the vet? Ask your vet why she is on a 24 hour injection and not one every 12 hours.. Canininsulin works fairly fast so I'm surprised that it's one a day. I don't find it surprising she is very high because she probably has little to no insulin left. Also if she's getting a bigger dose once a day vs 2 smaller ones she could be dropping very very low and then shooting back up. That's called bouncing.
Are you using a U40 syringe or a U100 syringe? If you are using a U40 syringe that's a high dose that could lead to bouncing.

Its very hard to advise anything without data.
Click on the Princess Kraken SS in my signature. This is a chart users here made. I just started using mine. I had a not very good one before but this one is great. If you want then I can help you set up your own, find the links for everything for you.

I've added my own info to mine like her feeding schedule , her high carb food for emergencies, a chart to convert U40 to U100 and some more. Ignore all that.. Just look at the first sheet.

Blood Glucose testing at home is your best bet to be able to help your cat.
 
Welcome to the board, I am sorry to read that you are having a rough time right now. I would advise you to learn about the insulin you are using by visiting this forum: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/caninsulin-vetsulin-and-n-nph.19/
and reading the Beginner's Guide to Caninsulin (Vetsulin). Vetsulin should be injected twice a day, every 12 hours, not once a day.
@Elizabeth and Bertie @Kris & Teasel please advise.
We recommend home testing just like human diabetics do, using a glucose meter and strips. Most of us test on the cat's outer ear edge to get that little drop of blood for testing. It's the best way to tell what the blood sugar is at any time. We test always before injecting insulin to be sure it is safe to do so, and we test at other times of the day/night to see how the insulin is working.
Your cat may have some tooth infection or other dental issues and these conditions can raise the blood sugar significantly, as well as lower the appetite. Your cat needs food if you are injecting that insulin. She obviously is not feeling at all well. Can you take her to the vet and have her teeth checked? If you have access to smooth (pate) cat food, you could try to mix it with warm water and make a soup, perhaps she would lap some of that up.
 
Hello and welcome to FDMB.

Cortisone shots can cause diabetes in cats. I hope your vet is no longer giving cortisone since the diabetes diagnosis.

What dose of Caninsulin did the vet tell you to give your cat? Your description of "4 lines" sounds like it might be 4 units which is an extremely high dose of insulin for a newly diagnosed cat. It also sounds like the dose is being given once daily which is also not advised. Insulin needs to be given twice daily 12 hours apart. Too much insulin can look the same as not enough which could at least partially explain the ongoing high BG readings. An infection or inflammation such as gingivitis is likely also causing elevation of your cat's BG.

Of paramount concern is that it sounds like your cat is in pain, possibly from a tooth issue, and feeling very sick from not eating, possibly from too much or incorrectly dosed insulin, dehydration, ketones and/or hepatic problems. Not only is it dangerous to be giving Caninsulin to a cat that is not eating but the combination of gingivitis, lack of food and lack of BG control can also lead to other very serious medical conditions. Your cat could have ketones which can lead to Diabetic ketoacidosis which can be fatal. Hepatic lipidosis which can also be fatal can also occur from not eating.

I strongly urge you to take your cat to the vet ASAP. Your cat needs to checked for ketone, and may need IV fluids, medication for nausea and an appetite stimulant all of which requires veterinary care.
 
Kitty Anderson said:
I'm new to this myself..
How are you testing? At home or just at the vet?
Has a curve been performed? A Blood glucose reading before the shot and then every two hours after the shot to see how she was reacting.
What are you feeding her? If dry food then switch to low carb wet food .
Click to expand...


I’m using aUI100 syringe
Testing is done by the vet (not every day)
I’m doing the injections at home
Unfortunately I was feeding her Purina DM (I know now it’s not the right choice)
When she eats I give her raw meat because she likes it very much
She refuses to eat I don’t know what to do
Tomorrow I am taking her to another doctor
Thank you so much for your support
 
If she's refusing to eat at all, you can and should force feed her. It will be messy, but cats can't really go without eating, and certainly can't if you're still giving insulin.

This may not be able to wait until tomorrow.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Hello and welcome to FDMB.

Cortisone shots can cause diabetes in cats. I hope your vet is no longer giving cortisone since the diabetes diagnosis.

What dose of Caninsulin did the vet tell you to give your cat? Your description of "4 lines" sounds like it might be 4 units which is an extremely high dose of insulin for a newly diagnosed cat. It also sounds like the dose is being given once daily which is also not advised. Insulin needs to be given twice daily 12 hours apart. Too much insulin can look the same as not enough which could at least partially explain the ongoing high BG readings. An infection or inflammation such as gingivitis is likely also causing elevation of your cat's BG.

Of paramount concern is that it sounds like your cat is in pain, possibly from a tooth issue, and feeling very sick from not eating, possibly from too much or incorrectly dosed insulin, dehydration, ketones and/or hepatic problems. Not only is it dangerous to be giving Caninsulin to a cat that is not eating but the combination of gingivitis, lack of food and lack of BG control can also lead to other very serious medical conditions. Your cat could have ketones which can lead to Diabetic ketoacidosis which can be fatal. Hepatic lipidosis which can also be fatal can also occur from not eating.

I strongly urge you to take your cat to the vet ASAP. Your cat needs to checked for ketone, and may need IV fluids, medication for nausea and an appetite stimulant all of which requires veterinary care.
Click to expand...



Tomorrow morning I going to another doctor I am so scared you can’t imagine.......
4units ( a little bit less than mesurent 1) with a syringe UI100
 
Can you get someone to pick you up and bring you a human glucose meter..and test strips.

You can help her tonight with just that.

I just came home a few days ago to find my cat critical! I thought she was dying in front of me. She sounds like your explaining Even worse!
I've dealt with many a sick cat.. She was bad.
With blood glucose readings, insulin adjustment and support from the people on this forum she is perfectly fine tonight! A happy, purry cat!

Just with right food, right information from blood glucose readings, and right insulin dose.
The people on here are many experts in dealing with diabetic kitties.

I can take some time to link you to some the information you need to help your kitty that's already on this forum..

Ppl here can help. I can mostly just point you to good information on here.
 
Asiina & Alex said:
If she's refusing to eat at all, you can and should force feed her. It will be messy, but cats can't really go without eating, and certainly can't if you're still giving insulin.

This may not be able to wait until tomorrow.
Click to expand...


@Karpeta Elena

I'm not one to reccomend what exactly you should do, except get a glucose meter and strips ASAP, tonight if possible , if you can get her to a vet tonight even better, because I'm new at this as well.

But here is a video that was posted on this forum about assisted feeding. It was in one of the information postings and shows how to help your cat eat when they don't want to.


I'm still learning, but this is definitely the best place to learn.
 
Karpeta Elena said:
I’m using aUI100 syringe
Click to expand...
Do your syringes have half unit markings or not? If you could post a picture of the syringe you are using it would help us understand what dose of insulin your cat is getting.

Karpeta Elena said:
Unfortunately I was feeding her Purina DM (I know now it’s not the right choice)
When she eats I give her raw meat because she likes it very much She refuses to eat I don’t know what to do
Click to expand...

While I would still recommend seeing a vet today rather than tomorrow, if that is not possible, your main concern right now needs to be getting your cat to eat. It doesn't matter whether it's high carb food, your kitty needs food to process the insulin and to prevent or possibly stop ketones and avoid any liver problems. Your cat also needs lots of fluids as she is likely dehydrated from not eating. You could try giving your cat poached chicken, tuna, salmon, meat only baby food (no garlic or onions), even cold cuts.......anything to get some calories into her is important. Mixing her cat food with water to make a soupy mixture might help if her teeth are hurting. You may need to syringe some food into her to get her to start eating.

I agree getting a glucometer to test your cat's BG would be very helpful. I'd also strongly suggest you test for ketones at home using Ketostix available at the pharmacy. With the sticks, you test her urine with the Ketostix and they change colour which tells you if there are ketones in her urine and if so, how high they are. High ketones lead to DKA and that is very hard and expensive to treat and can be fatal. Given the gingivitis and lack of food, I strongly urge you to at the very least get those test sticks and test your cat for ketones ASAP.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Do your syringes have half unit markings or not? If you could post a picture of the syringe you are using it would help us understand what dose of insulin your cat is getting.

I succeeded to give her 5ml of can food with a little bit of water. She obviously suffers , probably gingivitis or her teeth because she was scratching her mouth..it’s impossible for me to go to the doctor tonight because it’s 11,45 o’clock in ATHENS and I m not sure there is any working vet at this hour

While I would still recommend seeing a vet today rather than tomorrow, if that is not possible, your main concern right now needs to be getting your cat to eat. It doesn't matter whether it's high carb food, your kitty needs food to process the insulin and to prevent or possibly stop ketones and avoid any liver problems. Your cat also needs lots of fluids as she is likely dehydrated from not eating. You could try giving your cat poached chicken, tuna, salmon, meat only baby food (no garlic or onions), even cold cuts.......anything to get some calories into her is important. Mixing her cat food with water to make a soupy mixture might help if her teeth are hurting. You may need to syringe some food into her to get her to start eating.

I agree getting a glucometer to test your cat's BG would be very helpful. I'd also strongly suggest you test for ketones at home using Ketostix available at the pharmacy. With the sticks, you test her urine with the Ketostix and they change colour which tells you if there are ketones in her urine and if so, how high they are. High ketones lead to DKA and that is very hard and expensive to treat and can be fatal. Given the gingivitis and lack of food, I strongly urge you to at the very least get those test sticks and test your cat for ketones ASAP.
Click to expand...
 
image.jpg
 
I understand about the time. You'd likely have to find an Emergency Vet at that hour and they are not always available in all areas. In the meantime, I would suggest you keep trying to get food and water into your kitty. She needs lots of calories and especially so if you have or plan to give her insulin.

It looks like your dose of insulin is about 1.5u as it appears your syringes do not have half unit markings. It's not the high dose it sounded like earlier which is good to know. When did you last give her insulin?
 
Last edited:
On Saturday at 3 o’clock in the afternoon. Today I was afraid because she didn’t get any food for two days,except for the milk. She was hiding all day long
 
Karpeta Elena said:
I have watched the video and gave her only 5ml because she hurts a lot
Click to expand...
OK. Keep trying.. If its getting to much take a break..
There are hypoglycaemia articles here. That's when they don't eat and to much insulin makes there blood sugar very low.
Just keep trying and anything she could possibly want to eat..

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/
 
Can she be hypo I mean she has high blood sugar she hasn’t got the shot of insulin and she hasn’t eaten much??? She is weakened and in pain . She was searching for food but she was afraid to eat because of the pain
 
Karpeta Elena said:
Can she be hypo I mean she has high blood sugar she hasn’t got the shot of insulin and she hasn’t eaten much??? She is weakened and in pain . She was searching for food but she was afraid to eat because of the pain
Click to expand...
The only way for you to be sure is blood glucose testing. Call that pharmacy... How far away from it are you?
Its less likely that she's hypoglycaemic if she didn't get insulin. But if she was last glucose tested Friday and hasn't eaten since then she could me.

Make that call. If they have one it could help you a lot. And take her to the vet in the AM. First thing. Be there when he opens. He might take you in first. I've spent a bit of time in a then and have friends there.. I wouldn't be surprised if the first person there was late.

Even if he isn't hypoglycaemic he still needs some food in his system.
 
Kitty Anderson said:
Using those syringes 4 lines of canininsulin is 1.6 units. I copy pasted this chart from one of the threads and added 0.25 marks for canininsulin for the first 5.5 lines.
Click to expand...

From the image It appears that there are 2 units between each mark which is typical for insulin syringes the hold 100 units of U100 insulin (1 ml) 4 lines would be 8 units of a u100 insulin and 3.2 units of U40 insulin.
 
Larry and Kitties said:
From the image It appears that there are 2 units between each mark which is typical for insulin syringes the hold 100 units of U100 insulin (1 ml) 4 lines would be 8 units of a u100 insulin and 3.2 units of U40 insulin.
Click to expand...

Your right.. Our first syringes where 100s with 1 unit per mark. Which were unwieldy so we switched to smaller. I didn't spot that on phone.

@Karpeta Elena ignore my calculation.

That's a large dose of insulin at once.. Did the vet start him off on that dose?
 
Karpeta Elena said:
Can she be hypo I mean she has high blood sugar she hasn’t got the shot of insulin and she hasn’t eaten much??? She is weakened and in pain . She was searching for food but she was afraid to eat because of the pain
Click to expand...
My cat had a very bad tooth infection and the pain stopped him eating one way I got him to eat was by blending his food so that it was smooth like baby food consistency, add a little water if it's too thick. Then I would take a teaspoon and he would kick it off the spoon, for some reason this was better than the licking from bowl.

I'm glad you are going to a vet, we had to take our cat to second vet who diagnosed gingivitis and bad teeth infection, he put George on pain med/anti inflammatory and antibiotics for 10 days and then George had dental surgery had teeth cleaned and a lot of them removed..
Make sure they take a good look at the mouth.
 
Gill & George said:
My cat had a very bad tooth infection and the pain stopped him eating one way I got him to eat was by blending his food so that it was smooth like baby food consistency, add a little water if it's too thick. Then I would take a teaspoon and he would kick it off the spoon, for some reason this was better than the licking from bowl.

I'm glad you are going to a vet, we had to take our cat to second vet who diagnosed gingivitis and bad teeth infection, he put George on pain med/anti inflammatory and antibiotics for 10 days and then George had dental surgery had teeth cleaned and a lot of them removed..
Make sure they take a good look at the mouth.
Click to expand...
Could you please tell me what kind of inflammatory and pain killer you used? My doctor gave her cortisone shots and antibiotics thanks
 
How is she doing. Have you seen the vet yet?
Steroids and diabetes don't mix very well..The steroids can mess with a cats blood sugars.
 
Karpeta Elena said:
Could you please tell me what kind of inflammatory and pain killer you used? My doctor gave her cortisone shots and antibiotics thanks
Click to expand...
The vet here prescribed meloxidyl 0.5mg/ml the cat version that is available here in Europe, George got a first dose as an infection, then the appropriate dose for his weight, for a two or three days (I can't remember exactly) I then gradually reduced the dose to half the dose for weight as a maintenance dose so I could keep the inflammation/pain under control while we waited for the infection to clear up and for our vet to be able to do the dental procedure.
I was worried about the meloxidyl since it can be problematic for cats with kidney issues, but we did not have any other options for pain relief here for him available to us here, so once the pain was under control I gradually reduced the dose to half the recommended for his weight, to try and be kinder to his kidneys. He has had another blood test recently and the kidneys are still functioning like they were before the meloxidyl treatment, once he had the dental we continued with if for about a week, to give his mouth time to heal. We didn't want to do steroids because of the risk of it setting off the diabetes

The steroid injections can definitely trigger diabetes in cats. George had one steroid injection some weeks ago, (he was ill and not eating and vomiting, we did steroid and Antibiotic) dexamethaosne, a long lasting one 7-10 days have a look at the spreadsheet, we went from a cat that was in remission to Blood Glucose in the 400's, I started insulin, but only started to see any progress once the injection wore off it's all in my notes on the spreadsheet so you can see. The Steroids result in the liver becoming insulin resistant and the blood glucose concentration rises as a result.
 
The downside for us was that both the antibiotics and meloxidyl gave him diarrhea, so we used a probiotic to try and help with that and to restore his gut flora once he'd finished the course of antibiotics. This is the one we used.
https://www.amazon.de/optibac-Probi...gend/dp/B0056PHUGG/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20


Vets often recommend Fortiflora, but it's not really a good option, hasn't got enough probiotic in it and also has animal digest that can in itself cause digestive problems in some cats. I'll find a link for you with more info on that. Which also gives you recommended doses for the probiotic above.
 
Kitty Anderson said:
How is she doing. Have you seen the vet yet?
Steroids and diabetes don't mix very well..The steroids can mess with a cats blood sugars.
Click to expand...

Thank you all for your support!
My poor baby is at the vet right now. The situation is critical.... I will be informed later today so I don’t know anything yet. Hope for the best
 
Karpeta Elena said:
Thank you all for your support!
My poor baby is at the vet right now. The situation is critical.... I will be informed later today so I don’t know anything yet. Hope for the best
Click to expand...
So sorry to hear he's not doing well. Praying they can help
 
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