Definition of "Outdoors" for Vaccines

[KPassa]

I just got a new four-month-old kitten as a playmate for Michelangelo. I'm going to be taking this as-yet-unnamed tyke to the vet tomorrow for a check up and vaccines (he's received NONE so far). I've read through Dr. Lisa's Vaccine page (and can't help feel guilty because I'm pretty sure I got Mikey vaccinated for some things he probably didn't need and didn't bother to check if the vaccines were recombinant or MLV).

My questions is: What's the definition of a cat that goes outdoors?

Where I live, we have a nice, fairly decent backyard/patio area. Before these two cats, we had a pet rabbit that lived out there and we blocked everything off so he couldn't get out as well as blocked everything up so possums and/or neighborhood cats couldn't get in. Since I got Michelangelo, we've made a couple more modifications, like adding a litter box and growing catnip and cat grass, and have turned it into a nice little "Catio" for him (and now the new one). They've got a place to roam amongst the grass and feel the sun, yet they're safe from the outside world and can't escape (which they don't want to do anyway).

Should I still get the new kitten his FeLV and Rabies shots? Or is this not "outdoor" enough to be necessary?

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

Finally! I know you have been wanting to get a new kitten for a while!

Do the cats ever go outside unsupervised? If so then I would say they are cats that go outdoors because you never know what could happen when you arent watching - meet another animal or another cat etc. Saying that though, I would get both shots. Even though they may be supervised all the time, they may bump into another cat while they are out there.

Some stories from my experience
- One day I was out with Tiggy who never gets out on his own. I was doing a bbq. I turn around to see him follow an unidentified orange cat into the bushes. He could easily have caught something from it. He also catches mice and stuff.
- My MIL had her dog in the yard. Midday. She hears barking and there is a raccoon in the yard going at the dog. No harm was done but it could easily have been rabid.
- My vet was in the house and never lets his cat out and so never used to vaccinate against rabies. One day he hears a noise and discovers a bat flying around in his bathroom. They are carriers of rabies. Now he vaccinates his cats just in case.

Better safe than sorry. FYI my vet knows that not all clients have funds to do the shots every year so with older cats that only go out supervised, he alternates one year shots, one year blood work .

 

[KPassa]

I've been calling the newest kitten Mr. T, short for Mr. Tuxedo, till I find out what his name is. :lol: I got him Monday night in an act of desperation because everywhere I had looked over these last three months, not a single cat was still available. Which is a good thing for the cats, but not for Michelangelo, who's definitely been in need of the social interaction another cat would bring. The second I held Mr. T for the first time, he snuggled against me and gave me a kitty-kiss on my cheek. I knew that if any cat could help Mikey, it was this sweetheart! He's even already won over my brother!

They usually don't go out unsupervised unless my brother, who was obviously born in a barn, leaves the back door open. I was leaning toward getting the vaccines anyway, but I wanted to make sure that I wasn't being overly cautious and causing potential detriment toward his health. This makes me feel much better about tomorrow now.

 

[Hillary & Maui (GA)]

if these are his first vaccines ever for this, then I would go ahead and at a minimum get the felv one. as for rabies, if you are supervising and they can't in any way come in contact with another animal, then you may not need the rabies.

just my 2 cents

also, being a new kitten, you will probably need to deworm and if he is in contact with your other cats or sharing litter box, they may need it too.

and something i learned that a cat that goes in grass, dirt, can also get parasites from that and may need dewormer meds - so something to think about when you have them "outside"

 

[Denise & Honey]

Not sure if its a CA-wide thing, but in Santa Clara County the vet has to notify the County of a new cat as it needs a licence and an up to date rabies shot.
After that, each time the cat gets the rabies shot, again the vet notifies the County to check whether the license is still valid.

I've had my 3 cats vaccinated each year with the vet-recommened ones - after reading Dr Lisa's info, I'm switching to just the rabies annual shot.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

Almost all states require rabies vaccination.
I would also get the Panleukopenia Virus (FPV) /Feline Herpesvirus-1 and Feline Calicivirus (FHV-1/FCV) combination vacination. See:
http://www.catvets.com/uploads/PDF/FINA ... e12.15.pdf

 

[KPassa]

also, being a new kitten, you will probably need to deworm and if he is in contact with your other cats or sharing litter box, they may need it too.

and something i learned that a cat that goes in grass, dirt, can also get parasites from that and may need dewormer meds - so something to think about when you have them "outside"

Yeah, this is one of the reasons why I tried to keep them separated till I could take Mr. T to the vet...it didn't work out so well, so if he does have any worms or parasites, I'll have to treat Mikey, too. (I have to bring them back a fecal sample.) I had two previous cats for four years at this house as well as Michelangelo and so far, all three of them haven't gotten any parasites or worms from being outside yet. Even still, I also always check their litter box for issues. :lol:

Not sure if its a CA-wide thing, but in Santa Clara County the vet has to notify the County of a new cat as it needs a licence and an up to date rabies shot.

I think it's a county thing. I didn't have to license Michelangelo or this kitty and they gave me the option of the rabies vaccine if he goes outdoors unsupervised.

Almost all states require rabies vaccination.
I would also get the Panleukopenia Virus (FPV) /Feline Herpesvirus-1 and Feline Calicivirus (FHV-1/FCV) combination vacination. See:
http://www.catvets.com/uploads/PDF/FINA ... e12.15.pdf

I ended up getting him the FeLV, Rabies, and FVRCP and just had him tested for FIV and FIP (both negative). Unfortunately, they only had the killed vaccines except for the FIV and FIP (which I didn't get him anyway), so I had to compromise on that and hope that Mr. T isn't in the rare category of having a bad reaction or cancer or kidney problems from it. nailbite_smile The cool thing is that they said they would look into non-adjuvanted and live vaccines because they'd never heard of those problems with adjuvanted and/or killed vaccines before. It's next to impossible to keep up on every single one of the latest studies and research, so if my vet falls short, I'm happy enough that they've always been open to finding out more information.

He's got a follow-up for his boosters in 3 weeks and I also have him tentatively scheduled to get fixed then, although I remember reading somewhere that it might not be a good idea to get them fixed at the same time as shots? Or is that only for the vaccine and not the boosters?

And as I typed this all up in the backyard, they're both lounging about a foot away from each other, sunbathing. Such a happy sight to see! Now if only they can remain this copacetic for the rest of their lives. :lol:

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

Thats great that they are getting on so well already!! And they are happy! maybe it will help calm Mikeys BG down.

I guess its like vaccinating your kid.. you have to do it and you hope it isnt a rare case of where they have issues. But catching the disease is probably more likely than the rare issue they get from the vaccine. i hope!

 

[LynnLee + Mousie]

they don't know about the adjuvanted vaccines? that's odd, especially in a place like here in so cal, 'cause it's been known about for well over a decade i think. i lost one of my kitties to that vaccine cancer about 10 or 11 years ago it was and it was a shock to me then to find out that the vaccines were making our cats sick. in all honesty, i haven't vaccinated a cat since except for the kitten series vaccines. and i have to cringe to do that we have a customer that's a vet and based on what he's told me about how they're supposed to do them now and document things, i'm not convinced they actually know what in the vaccines was causing the cancer so until the new ones have been around and not caused cancer for several years, i just can't bring myself to subject my kitties to them at this point and thankfully my vet doesn't push them either.

and yeah, what a nice change in the weather eh! and it's supposed to be nice for the next several days too! yeahhhhhhhhh! we work pretty much outside and the last couple weeks have been horrid! LOL!!

 

[KPassa]

I guess its like vaccinating your kid.. you have to do it and you hope it isnt a rare case of where they have issues. But catching the disease is probably more likely than the rare issue they get from the vaccine. i hope!

Exactly my thoughts! A gamble on the likelihood of them catching the disease vs. the vaccine-related side effects.

they don't know about the adjuvanted vaccines?

Actually, I think it was the "live" vs. "killed" side effects and not so much the adjuvanted that they didn't know about. (I guess there's a difference?)

i'm not convinced they actually know what in the vaccines was causing the cancer so until the new ones have been around and not caused cancer for several years, i just can't bring myself to subject my kitties to them at this point and thankfully my vet doesn't push them either.

and yeah, what a nice change in the weather eh! and it's supposed to be nice for the next several days too! yeahhhhhhhhh! we work pretty much outside and the last couple weeks have been horrid! LOL!!

I've always been a little wary of vaccines, so even before reading Dr. Lisa's page, I always got the bare minimum shots (plus the shots for "outside") and then only followed up if I absolutely had to. IIRC with my previous two cats, they both had their kitten series and then neither of them got their shots updated until about 10 years later when I moved to a coyote-prone area.

Yes! I was loving the heat after it's been so cold this past week. I think we were even getting down to the low 40s at night! It felt so good to NOT have to wear long sleeves during the day! :lol: I think I even got a bit too much sun....my arms are a little pink.