deciding to to not treat? (newbie here please help)

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chloesmom

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Hi,
First I want to say that I have read just about everything on here that I can possibly read in my "down" time. I really admire how dedicated everyone is.

Here is my situation: My sweet little angel Chloe is 10 years old. She started urinating outside her box and I thought she just felt smaller. A couple of days ago my vet figured out she is diabetic. At first I was happy and thought ok we can do this, its not cancer. Then the vet explained to me what all is involved and I also continued to research on my own. Slowly I narrowed down my choices. I am heavily leaning on not treating her. The reason is because she is the most nervous, scared cat I have ever met. She could barely breath by the time I got her to the vets. I've tried endlessly to get a urine sample from her and she gets so nervous she goes on the floor (I had to lock her in a room because I have another cat). She mostly lives under the stairs and comes out at night to cuddle with me. Only my husband and my sister know her aside from me.

We have decided that all the trips to the vet, the needle sticks, and so forth would just be too much for her. My heart is broke because I want to save her so bad but I do feel it is unfair to her. I wish I could explain it all to her. Please understand I am a great cat mom and have always strived to do whats best for my cats. I have enough guilt, and while you all seem very nice, I really can't handle guilt trips.

I am wondering if anyone else has made this decision. And I am also wondering if anyone can shed any light on how she might be feeling physically. I need to make the decision to put her to sleep and I don't want to do it to soon or too late. Basically I don't want to say goodbye, but mostly I don't want her to suffer.


Currently she is drinking and eating normally. She doesn't appear sick, but I'm also in deniel. Any advice would be so appreciated.
Thanks,
Laura
 
First of all just take a breath………this is a lot to absorb all at once. This is a very treatable disease and constant vet trips are not necessary. I didn’t think I could do it either…..but I had to try. I love my guy too much not to and the alternative is to watch them slowly die. In 5 years I have never been sorry that I chose to treat this.

There are many here with kitties that were hard to treat and over time they have understood that everything we do makes them feel better. You may be surprised at how treating this will change the bond between you and your kitty.

Please reconsider your decision. There are many people here that will help you all along the way……
 
if she didn't have to go to the vet all the time would you treat her? i ask because unless there are complications she won't need to go to the vet very much, maybe once a year or once every six months.

this disease is easily treated at home. but there's alot of vets that don't know that yet but word is spreading amongst the animal world. so if your vet is one of them, let us educate you so you can educate them so they can work WITH you and make this easier on your kitty.

fwiw, my diabetic was diagnosed 4 years ago and she's been to the vet clinic i think 3 times since she was diagnosed, maybe 4 times.

unfortunately i don't have a lot to say about not treating that is going to be good. for instance, a diabetic can't utilize food as well as a non-diabetic or a diabetic getting treatment so they basically can starve to death as what goes in their mouths exits their body too quickly, thus the reason a newly diagnosed diabetic wants to eat so much. for that matter, excessive hunger is often a symptom of the diabetes, leading to the diagnosis. then, there is the problem of complications that can develop at a moment's notice, like diabetic ketoacidosis, etc....

so think about it a little more k? do you want us to explain to you how you could possibly do this without having to haul kitty to the vet every other day or week? or without having to leave kitty at the vet's for 3 days to be regulated since regulation doesn't happen at the clinic and is really, old school thinking? we can even give you info as to how to keep it affordable. just say the word if you want.
 
Sitting here crying as I read your nice replies....I wish I could take a deep breath but I feel like I can't even breath uggh :(

Cindy: It's okay to not having anything to really say about not treating. I know its not good. I just meant that I don't want to be thought of or treated like I'm uncaring. One of my kitties went thru chemo for cancer, I'd do just about anything for my babies if I felt it was right for them. Hope that makes sense. I do want to know the facts like is she suffering.

My vet said she would have to go in every other week to have blood testing. Once stable basically 2 times a month. Well, the issue I have is that after this past appointment it took my poor kitty close to four days to come out of hiding. I've worked with ill people and know I can do the shots. What I keep coming back to is how can I take proper care of her if I can't catch her? If this was happening to any other cat I've ever been blessed with I wouldn't give it a second thought. To explain her more every time I clip her nails I don't see her for a day or two. My husband thinks if I try to do the shots by day 2 or 3 I won't be able to find her.

Maybe my question is, if I did treat her is it for me or is it for her?
Cindy, how would I get my vet to give me insulin but be okay witout seeing her every oter week. (Sorry my spelling is funny I guess a few letters on my keyboard are not working!)
 
There are many cats here who have lived many happy healthy years on insulin. Treating her is for her. If your child was diabetic would you treat them?

Also, you hire your vet every time you make an appointment. Your vet does not make the decisions for your cat, you do, you love her and know her the best, your vet gives you suggestions for treatment and then you decide which suggestions you choose to accept or reject. If you choose to treat the diabetes, you tell your vet that you want to treat, ask for your insulin of choice, when you get your insulin you tell your vet that you've decided to home test your cat because times are tough and you can't afford weekly vet visits (they will understand or not but it is still your choice) and you will be happy to send your results to them on a regular basis so that you can continue to co-manage her care.

Feline diabetes is very managable and affordable although it takes a committment from you because the learning curve is very steep in the beginning but within a few weeks it becomes routine and much easier, if it didn't there wouldn't be so many of us doing it.

We are all currently or have at one time been treating our diabetic kitties, if you want help to do this we will be here for you. Just ask.
 
I guess you could maybe try something intermediate while you are thinking about what to do. Certainly if you modify her diet to all wet food/grain free, you can gain some lowering in the sugar to buy some time. Can you practice coaxing the cat out with treats (chicken or something)...get the routine started, minus the insulin for now...if I come out and sit I get a treat. Would be great to practice it every 12 hours...on an insulin cycle....then perhaps you will be able to substitute in the treatment.
You really don't have to see the vet all the time. Once you get the prescription...if all is well and you home test, you can just go on and do your think at home.
I decided to treat back in March because I came to the conclusion that I knew what would happen if I didn't and there was the possibility of a good outcome if I did try, and so far (knock on nearest wood) the outcome has been good.
Its a hard thing to deal with I know. Best of luck to you as you decide a course of action.
 
If you vet insists that you bring her in routinely for blood tests, you need a new vet!
I assume she had bloodwork done initially for the diabetes diagnosis. You *can* treat this yourself, and there are many here who can guide you through it. It can be frightening and overwhelming at first, but it truly becomes part of your routine. Who knows, perhaps with a change in diet, Chloe will not even need insulin for long. It's worth a try.

MJ&Donovan
 
Hi Laura. I'm so sorry you're having to go through this decision making process. I know it's difficult. I was going to put Calliope to sleep the day after she was diagnosed because my vet didn't think I could even give her shot much less hometest her. I came here and read and read and asked and asked and I decided to try it before giving up on her. I'm glad I did and even if it hadn't worked out, I would have been glad I gave it a try.

Calliope HATED going to the vet. They had a really hard time handling her. After the diagnosis, we didn't go back for a year for the diabetes and that was for a check up. We did go back because she had a lump I had to get checked out and then again, a year later for impaction, but not for FD. My vet knew what a strain it was on her.

It's not necessary to have the vet test Chloe or try to regulate her. I would suggest getting her records and calling another vet and interviewing that vet. I'd ask what insulins that vet uses because there may be an insulin that's best for you and Chloe due to your circumstances. Others can comment on that if you decide to treat. Not all insulins work the same way.

I'd also ask the vet if he or she is familiar with hometesting with glucometers. You can use a human glucometer if you can test Chloe. You don't need your vet's permission to hometest, but you do need the insulin, as you stated. If your vet won't give it without you coming in all the time, find one who will. If you can't hometest, there are these little glucotest confetti things you put in the litter to see what the glucose levels are. They are not optimal because they don't give you the glucose levels in real time since the urine has been in the kidneys and has had to travel through the body before it hits the litter. However, there have been some folks here who couldn't hometest and simply had to do it that way and managed it successfully.

On the other hand, we've had plenty of people here with difficult kitties who learned to hometest, me being one of them. I had an awful time testing Calliope, but I got it done eventually. It was no cake walk and she didn't love it, but I kept her otherwise healthy and happy and at that point, I wanted her to be okay even if she didn't like me. She came around, though. Everyone here helped me because there are so many people here with so many different stories and tricks and tips to help you try to do what you need to do.

Surprisingly, I was able to shoot Calliope with no trouble. I did it while she ate. I had a tiny needle and I don't think Calliope ever felt it. I'm convinced she never knew she got a shot. I even gave her one while she was sleeping. I just petted her and then I shot and she never moved.

The food change had a great effect on Calliope, much more than I expected because her sugar was at 500 at the vet's office. Figured out that it was higher due to vet stress because that food just brought her right down, in addition to a little insulin. After less than 3 weeks, she was off the insulin completely. It happens and you just never know when it might happen. It's certainly not a guarantee and it's not really the goal. The goal is regulation and getting the kitty in tolerable numbers.

I was so happy I decided to give it a try even though, at the beginning, I honestly thought it wouldn't work and I'd be back to square 1.

This is your decision. I'm simply telling you my story because I was petrified like you are. I offer you some things to consider, if you want to, in trying to determine which way to go. I know this is so hard to think about because I was making a similar decision when Calliope was diagnosed. She was 14 at diagnosis and lived another year and a half until she got kidney issues that took her quickly. FD didn't get her, though. We beat that.

I feel for you and I hope you will think about this a bit longer and consider giving it a shot, even if means changing vets for Chloe. I used catnip and some folks use other things to calm their kitties or help in getting them to cooperate enough to be shot and tested. We have lots of suggestions.

I hope this helps you in some way.
 
chloesmom said:
Sitting here crying as I read your nice replies....I wish I could take a deep breath but I feel like I can't even breath uggh :(

Cindy: It's okay to not having anything to really say about not treating. I know its not good. I just meant that I don't want to be thought of or treated like I'm uncaring. One of my kitties went thru chemo for cancer, I'd do just about anything for my babies if I felt it was right for them. Hope that makes sense. I do want to know the facts like is she suffering.

My vet said she would have to go in every other week to have blood testing. Once stable basically 2 times a month. Well, the issue I have is that after this past appointment it took my poor kitty close to four days to come out of hiding. I've worked with ill people and know I can do the shots. What I keep coming back to is how can I take proper care of her if I can't catch her? If this was happening to any other cat I've ever been blessed with I wouldn't give it a second thought. To explain her more every time I clip her nails I don't see her for a day or two. My husband thinks if I try to do the shots by day 2 or 3 I won't be able to find her.

Maybe my question is, if I did treat her is it for me or is it for her?
Cindy, how would I get my vet to give me insulin but be okay witout seeing her every oter week. (Sorry my spelling is funny I guess a few letters on my keyboard are not working!)
Click to expand...
Laura, you do NOT have to take Chloe to the vet every other week, or even two times a month. In fact, because of vet stress, Chloe's BG numbers at the vet are likely going to be much higher and may result in the vet directing you give her too much insulin. If your current vet insists you return on this schedule and will not write the script for insulin otherwise, then you need a new vet. Given how skittish Chloe is, it may be that away from the vet's office she doesn't have BG levels that are considered diabetic - what did the vet tell you her BG level is?

As for the shots, I think all our cats had the yips to one degree or another when they first started getting insulin. However, what they learn (and they do learn) is that they feel better when Mom gives them a sticker and the sticker doesn't hurt (many of our members give the insulin why their cats are eating, and the cat doesn't even look up from the food dish).

I hope you reconsier your decision and, while you are giving this some thought, there is something very simply you can do to help lower Chloe's BG numbers - feed her low-carb wet food. Janet & Binky's food chart is here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm As you can see, Chloe can be fed Friskies, Fancy Feast, and other brands of food that are much more economical than the food purchased at the vet's office.

Please post back with all your questions. We are here to help you help Chloe.
 
First off, you don't have to be taking your cat to the vet all the time... that is your vet stealing your money and taking advantage of your lack of knowledge about the condition.
I call it a condition, or health issue, because I prefer to see it that way instead of a disease.
By treating it, diabetes is just a condition, and a very manageable one.
By not treating it, you will have a disease type issue on your hands that will hurt the animal.

So, what do you need the vet for, when it comes to feline diabetes? Not much except your rx to get the insulin, unless you're in Canada and we don't need rx for insulin. I just pop into the pharmacy and say I want a 5-pack of lev, I pay, and go home with my insulin.

YOU do the home testing and give the shots and monitor your Chloe's BG numbers. YOU.
Keep your money in your pocket and just get a regular human meter at the pharmacy to test.
Sheesh, you and Chloe will be just fine!

But, before we get ahead of things here, get copies of the tests that your vet did that said Chloe was diabetic. Then you can look into other things to adjust that will help.

Diet. There are so many cats that are diet controlled and don't even need insulin, or others that need insulin only for a short time along with a diet change, and then they are also off insulin.
The food's very important, so check on Binky's list that someone gave you already and be sure to feed Chloe the low carb choices. Keep it under 10% and you should be fine. NO DRY. Dry food is bad for all cats, especially diabetics, and that's even if they say it's good. And forget about the fancy expensive rx food that the vet office may try to sell you. Friskies or Fancy Feast or 9Lives are plenty better than the rx foods.

Now, you can start by practice with home testing and let her get used to that. Seriously, my two cats literally sleep through my poking their ears so it's not something that hurts. Your Chloe will get used to it and also the shots, but it's your fear and uncertainty that they feel so once you're calm, you will both be just fine.

You test just before each insulin shot and that's that. None of this going into the vet for who knows what to have your Chloe traumatized for days after each visit; I can relate because my Shadoe is the same, so we go to the vet when she is sick, and being diabetic is not being sick.
Besides, the numbers your vet gets will not be true numbers. The stress will give false numbers.
My Shadoe tests high at the vet office, and my Oliver tests way low!

It's great that you can give shots, so I don't see any problems whatsoever!

You'll see; it will be so simple for the two of you, you will wonder later how come you were so upset about the dx. Get up in the morn, test Chloe, prepare her food and shot, give food and shot, and go about your day. Then 12 hrs later, repeat - test, feed, shoot.

You will see great changes in Chloe and you will also find that Chloe knows when it's test and shoot time. Why? Cuz Chloe feels better soon after the shots.
Cats are pretty smart; after all, they have us trained pretty well, yes?

TELL your vet you want the insulin, have a meter and will be home testing yourself. Thanks very much, but you will not be coming every other week, unless all those visits will be free? Watch and see what your vet says to that! What? Free? I don't think so. And there is your vet's answer.

Any questions you have about it, just ask. There are some great people here who have lived it and know more than your vet will ever know about feline diabetes.
 
My .02 is first I would switch her to all low carb wet food. She's not on insulin yet, so it won't hurt and occasionally that is enough to put a cat in remission. What's the harm? Will she eat wet? If so, it's a good first step. Next you could work on her skittishness and getting her to come to you. Does she come out to eat? Establish an eating routine and just see if you can touch her lightly when eating her wet food. Try to get her ok with that. Usually diabetes is not an immediate killer, so while it is ideal to get her on shots right away, you'd at least be getting her carb level down so if the pancreas is working at all, it isn't having a heavy load to carry. Cindy's Mousie was pretty feral an it took months but she came around. Maybe your baby can too.

I agree with the others. No reason for such frequent vet trips. *Especially* if you could turn her around and begin home testing. To be frank if you could at least try the food switch you'd be doing something to help and give yourself some time to assess the situation further. Do you think that is possible?
 
There are tips on how to save money on diabetic cat care here: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/frugal.html

The main things you can save money are to test your cat's blood glucose levels at home instead of taking him to the vet every week or so and paying $$$ for results that will be inaccurate, feed a low carb commerical canned food instead of the $$$$ junky prescription stuff the vet will try to push, and use a good insulin that may seem expensive at first but well worth the cost if your cat goes into remission quickly (and there are ways to buy insulin for less money). Few diabetic cats need to go to the vet more than once a year or so and those are usually for general check up and such.
 
How about if you commit to treating her for a few months?

Most cats don't notice the shot - you slip it in while they eat. Ear testing is something they get used to...it's funny, but most cats come to like it because they get extra attention and of course, treats afterwards. Kate's Lucky and Susie's Moochie-Beast were/are some of the most difficult cats on this board, yet they are able to treat. Kate would wrap Lucky tightly in a towel when testing; at first, it was a struggle but after a while, no big deal.

The great thing about diabetes is that you really only need your vet for insulin (and I have some Lantus that I've been trying to get rid of since Boo doesn't need it anymore...if you'll commit to treating for a few months, I'll send you some).

Really, it's worth a try. Where do you live? There is probably somebody nearby that could help you out a bit.

ETA: Many of us have either had to educate our vets or change vets. For some reason, many don't keep up-to-date with newer treatment protocols. There is absolutely no reason to be taking her to the vet for curves and tests if you home test. In fact, the home-testing information is much better and much more accurate.
 
There really isn't much that I can add that hasn't been covered by everyone else. I hope that you will give lots of thought to what has been said and decided that treating your Chloe is something that you can and will do.

FD is not a death sentence....all you need is some time and patience and the will to try! Good Luck.
 
It is overwhelming at first for everyone. After you get into the routine of testing blood sugar and giving the injections -- it is only 5 minutes twice per day. Your kitty is certainly worth it.

You don't need to make constant trips to the vet if you learn to test her blood sugar at home and send in the results to your vet. Most of us here do this. We use a human glucometer and prick the edge of the ear for a tiny blood sample - testing before giving injections and occasionally spot checking at other times.

We treated our first diabetic cat, Norton, for nearly two years before we lost him to cancer. After he passed, my other 3 kitties and my husband and felt a Norton-shaped hole in our lives. After much consideration, we decided to adopt a diabetic cat who needed a home. (his "mom" could not get her work visa renewed during the tough economy and she had to go back to the U.K. -- Tiggy would have suffered during a 3 month quarantine, so she left him here)

Tiggy comes to tell us when it is testing / shot time. When my husband unzips the glucometer, Tiggy is right there waiting for his test. And we don't give food bribes like many here -- we give loving, petting and attention.

When the food and insulin dose is right -- the peeing goes back to normal, the eating goes back to normal and the kitty also returns to his or her normal personality and activities.

We give low carb canned food because it is better used by the kitty. Dry food requires more insulin because it is like feeding Twinkies to your cat -- extra calories that they don't need. Cats are carnivores and don't need ANY grains or fruit or vegetable. Read www.catinfo.org for excellent Feline Nutrition information published by a veterinarian.
 
The kitty will get used to it; God willing, Thomas will be celebrating his 10th anniversary as a diabetic this Christmas. And that is one who has not gone into remission. He used to run away at first, but he always let me catch him, and now he will alert me, when he wants to be tested.
The kitty will be fine.
Dana
 
Laura,

I have not read all the other replies and this might have already been mentioned but I also wanted to tell you our story. My vet was very insistent on having Webber go every couple of weeks for testing. I was absolutely not going to keep taking him in. I learned from this message board how to test Webber's glucose from home. Luckily Webber never had any other health issues during his treatment that required me to take him to the vet. So, what I am trying to say it.....Webber never did end up going to the vet for testing. I was able to test him at home and avoid the stress and hiding of going to the vet.

I also became so much more close to Webber. He learned to trust me with anything I did to him. All 4 cats looked forward to Webber's testing because they knew that they would all get many treats afterwards. Maybe over time Chloe will learn to look forward to this time with you, the extra special attention and treats.

After Webber started to become regulated, he started acting like a totally different cat. This made me wonder just how long he wasn't feeling good. We can wish that Chloe may start to come out a little more when she feels better.

As for how she is feeling now.....I can only state what I have read and learned. Diabetes basically starves the cat of the energy it needs to survive. If the glucose levels are left unregulated, the cat can develop neuropathy just like humans. At this point she is most likely drinking alot of water and eating well (maybe a little more), yet not gaining any weight. She probably feels very tired. Lays around alot and not playing. Her coat may look dry and she may have dandruff.

I wish you all the best in this very hard decision. Just remember, Chloe is YOUR cat and you do NOT have to take her to the vet for testing (if you can do it at home). :mrgreen:
 
Laura,

You have already received some excellant advice. I do home you reconsider your decision not to treat.

I have had four diabetic cats. Three have gone to the bridge but for non-diabetes related conditions. One of them was 17 and one was 19.

As others have said, you can test had home. You do not need any fancy equipment, just a human glucose meter. I was fortunate that my vet encouraged hometesting from the very beginning when my first cat was diagnosed. Because of this, my cats only visited the vet for their yearly exam, not weekly. Hometesting is not difficult (though may seem so at first) and takes so little time. Because it is no more difficult to take care of a diabetic cat than any other cat, my last two sugar kitties were cats that I adopted knowing they were diabetic.
 
Dear Laura,
I know just how you feel. It seems like so much, but really - it can be taken in baby steps.

When mine was diagnosed, I wanted to immed. start the insulin. I had given shots before to another cat and knew THAT would be the easy part.
I found this group (St. Francis guided me, I like to think), and read tons. I immed. switched him to wet food, added a tiny bit of Miralax to help the constipation, mixed a bit of water in with the food, worked up a shot and feeding schedule which I have altered slightly, once I figured his caloric intake. He stopped pooping outside the box, which was my big concern initially.

I have not yet home tested - - another story.

I did go for one curve, then had to leave town and board him - he hated it, went off his food and they had to drop the insulin for a day of two. But his bg readings were normal!!

As to cost: I use the Lantus - I bought the initial vial for $110 and after two months, it's only half gone.

Hope this helps. Everyone here is helpful and, unlike learning from a husband, NO ONE YELLS. :smile: You may feel in denial right now, but take it slowly and you'll amaze yourself how strong you can be as you face the situation head on.

RuthV
 
I understand the desire not to treat. I am very ambivalent about treating my cat. At first I thought the idea of giving a cat daily shots was ridiculous. After doing some research I felt guilty for feeding cheap food all these years and figured it was my fault she got sick. So I treated for about six months. After having numerous problems with treatment I stopped. Two years later Zoe started to lose muscle mass. I can't stand seeing her waste away so I started treating her again. She's on a different insulin and I bought a new cheaper, easier to use meter and so far so good.

That said I also feel guilty for spending so much money on her treatment. People in other parts of the world die because they can't afford medicine that costs less than what my cat gets. If I didn't treat my cat would I send the money to India or spend it at the bar? I think about this every time I buy insulin. I treat her because I love her and other than the diabetes she's very healthy. Death is natural, if she was an older cat or had an ailment that I didn't feel guilty about I wouldn't treat.

If she's eating and doesn't seem sick why would she need to be put down? She may have years left even without treatment. Don't think diabetes is an all or nothing proposition.
 
Please treat your kitty. If you love her she deserves a chance. The shots and poking the ear are nothing to me and my husband now. Sam comes into the bathroom about 1/2 hour before his shot time as he knows it's time to get poked and get a treat! He loves the treats so what he goes through is nothing to him. He doesn't even feel the shot the needles are so small. If you do the wet food only diet you may find that after a month or so she doesn't even need the shots! Our Sam was first DX'd in 2008 and in a month was off the juice and stayed off it for over 2 years. He is only back on it now because he got so stressed out and quit eating much. He's gained over a pound and a half and is back on the road to recovery. He tells us when he needs food and knows the time for his shots. Please save Chloe.
 
Hi,
I finally had a chance to come back on here and read all of your answers and to update you.
Within hours after being on here Chloe became very very sick. She was in pain and I could see it in her eyes. Surrounded by my supportive human family we made the horrible decision to let her go peacefully. When my vet saw her after seeing her just days before she was shocked in her decline. Having had cats with various conditions I truly think there was more going on. The only thing that might have saved her and given us more time would be to hospitalize her. I appreciate the different ideas for helping a timid cat, but if you actually knew her you would understand that her level of timid was so high that even leaving her there for IV's was not an option.
She's a sweet little angel now that joined a sister, and 3 brothers.
Several people stated I should switch vets. I've gone to my vet for 17 years. She has walked with along the paths of cancer, leukemia, FIV, hypertension, hypothyroidism, and the good times. She knew this baby of mine and personally saw her distress and illness. I couldn't just up and pick a new vet! She sat and cried with me about how hard it is to make these calls.
I am so happy that I came across this site and board while doing my searches. You gave me hope when I needed. I was considering talking to my vet about home testing, but in the end I saw the pain and felt I had to make the right decision not for myself but for a sweet sweet cat. Keep up all of the love you are giving your cats and the great education you are sharing!
Thank you
 
I'm so sorry to hear this - but you did the right and brave thing. I'm sure shre was one of the sweetest cats in the world - she's not gone , just gone on ahead. I hope it is soon when you will recall only the happy years.

RuthV
 
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