Day 5 of Prozinc questions

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123joan

123joan

Member Since 2011
Today her numbers are staying low. What should I do if they continue to stay low when it's time for her next dose three hours from now? I'm not supposed to give her a dose unless it's over 200, right? Is it common for the numbers to be all over the place at the beginning?

I DID make an adjustment with her cat food, she was getting one meal of dry (EVO Turkey & Chicken Formula Dry food) per day until Friday when I cut it out completely. That complicates matters also, right? Now she is eating just Fancy Feast Classic.

Am I supposed to be linking this post to my previous posts? Trying to learn protocol.

Thank you everyone, at least I'm asking this three hours before freak-out time! She is SO GOOD about testing and her injections I can't believe it.
 
Those numbers look fantastic!

The only one that stands out is that red one yesterday morning, and that seems to have been caused by the 1u dose the night before, which may have been a little too much on that 172 preshot number. It isn't on the SS but possibly she went low overnight, and that red number was a "bounce" from that.

Yes, the diet change usually shows positive results, and quickly once the dry food is gone from her system.

If you can test an hour before shot time, then again at shot time, that will show you if her number is rising (like it want it to be before giving a shot). I'll make sure and check back for any updates as you post them in case there's a question about tonight's shot.

Carl
 
I already fed her. I didn't know. The glucose meter beep has our two cats running for the food table, I'm rewarding her pokes with food, and they hadn't eaten since noon. I just talked with my vet, and she suggests skipping tonight's shot. I won't be able to talk with her till midmorning tomorrow, so I'll be here with questions tonight and tomorrow morning.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for this real-time guidance.

What a great tool THE SPREADSHEET. Instead of looking for notes on the wipe-off board, dining room table, etc.
 
Skipping is fine and your best option if you have fed. Just be aware your amps won't be a "true" number; it most likely will be high because she has been 24 hours since her last shot. So I would suggest lowering the dose regardless . Today's numbers are an indicator the dose is too high.

Taking away the dry could be a big part of her lower numbers also. Great job!
 
So I should adjust dose to .5 regardless of the reading? I'm glad you gave me a warning about a possible high reading tomorrow morning.
 
I would. The idea is that the dose today was too high and that is why you got the long cycle and unshootable pmps. Because the amps tomorrow won't be a normal number, but is likely to be high because of the time without insulin, the idea is to lower the dose that gave you the long cycle. If you shoot more into a higher number, you are likely to repeat the long cycle and unshootable pmps.

This is a supposition based on the "usual" way this works. Your other choice is to keep testing tonight (starting 2 hours after she ate to avoid the food influenced number )until you get a number over 200 and shoot .5 into that. It does mess up your 12/12 schedule as your next shot would need to 12 hours from this next one. I don't know if that is possible, but it would eliminate the higher number in the am.

Hope that isn't terribly confusing....
 
334 15 hours after morning shot (sorry can't figure out terminology)....what should I do in the morning?
 
I don't understand "long cycle" . Also, I don't understand unshootable pmps. I'm not going to test her again tonight. I'll test in the morning and shoot .5. That will be 24 hours since last shot.
 
Sorry, Joan, it is overwhelming at first. Long cycle means she has low numbers nearer the 12 hour mark. Normally PZI has a smile shaped cycle - start at a higher number, go down to the lowest number about 6 hours after the shot and then climb back to a number near the am number about 12 hours. Yesterday she went from the morning number down to a midcycle number and then she climbed up to the 151 - not back up to the 242 range. It was flatter than a smile. So we say she had a long cycle. This generally is an indicator that the dose is a little high.

For beginning diabetics, we say numbers under 200 at preshot are not shootable. Last night, we did not want you to shoot insulin into the 157. It was too low, or unshootable. Later, when you have lots of data, you might be able to shoot a small dose into that number. For this early, it is safest not to.

This document is huge and should only be read in small amounts, but might be helpful.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799

So today, the morning number is not bad for 24 hours since the last shot. And she has already come down. Let's see what it looks like tonight.

If you think of these early days as data gathering, sometimes it is less overwhelming. You are gathering numbers to see how the insulin is working and giving her safe doses until you get enough data to see some trends and patterns in her reactions.
 
You are NOT being a pest. Everyone who replies to threads on this site is paying it forward for help they received when they were scared and overwhelmed. Someday you will reply to a newbie about how scared you were in the beginning and share what you learned and how you are doing.
 
I love this place! Of course, I wish I wasn't in the middle of this dilemma. Data gatherer I am now.

Would you suggest testing her again before PMPS? +8 or +9? Or is that necessary?
 
Tested +9, result 294. Would you suggest the lower dose of .5 tonight as I did this morning?
 
I think I would try the .5 for a couple cycles and get nadir numbers when you can. She had nice numbers today and might have gone lower than the 200s around that +6 mark. If, after a few cycles, it looks like she could use a little more, you could raise it a "smidgen". Some cats take a while to settle into a new dose.

She (and you) are doing fine.
 
I've been reading the articles you suggested slowly but surely.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/view ... 24&t=32799
I can't imagine tweaking that little tiny .5 dose higher or lower......it seems microscopic as it is.
It is so awesome to have that spreadsheet template available, whoever devised that (most likely a joint effort?). Everyone is on the same page. However, I still can't see a big picture. Just gathering that info! Lucy is feeling so much better, I'm not constantly filling the water bowl, and the litter box doesn't weigh a ton-a-day.

When you say a couple of cycles, do you mean days?
 
A cycle is one shot to the next, so a couple cycles could be 3 or 4 which would be 2 days. It depends on the numbers and what she is doing with the dose.

If it begins to look like she will need smaller doses like .75 or even .2 or .4, you can buy some U100 syringes and use the conversion chart:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions-printer.htm

Another brilliant person (like the spreadsheet creator) figured out how to use U100 needles to give tiny doses of a U40 insulin. It makes it much easier when you get down to small doses.
 
Joan
First - welcome - second you are doing great third isn't Sue the best (except for Carl of course)! Sue and Carl have kept me sane - or at least tried.
Did you find the Prozinc section of this forum? It's fine to be posting here but there are some other experts in the kind of insulin you are using over there if you want to stop by there - if it's too confusing don't worry we'll find you.

I had a HUGE change when I put my cat Robbie on all wet Fancy Feast food (cut out dry) as a matter of fact he pretty quickly went off insulin and was OTJ (off the juice) for over 2 years. We are back here now and it's more challenging but that's fine we'll make it and I hope to be OTJ again someday.
Lots of testing in the beginning (and continuing to test at all points in the cycle)is really helpful - even if it's just to see that YES the numbers ARE all over the place it's not just you. My cat happens to be on a high dose but I do know that trying to look at the difference between 5 and 5.75 or 5.25 is just crazy making - When I was giving Robbie .50 back in our first time here I felt like I wasn't giving him ANYTHING - now I shoot 5 into him and I cringe. But you get used to it all - it's just really new.
How is your kitty's pee out put? Is she still peeing large amounts? Lots of water intake? These are things you can look at too and see a move in a good or bad direction - when I see robbie at the dog water bowl lapping away I know we're not gonna see good numbers probably - so it's good to be in touch with those kinds of signs too.
Know a few things - you are never a bother here - everyone here is amazing and happy to help. Some day you will return the favor by helping others (like I'm kind of trying to do now although I don't have as many answers as Sue or Carl) and there is no rush there.
Keep taking a deep breath and remember food is going to always effect what you are seeing number wise so try and get pre-meal tests mostly - for instance Robbie is on a 5:45/5:45 schedule but he wants food at 4am - always has- so I test him at 4am so when I shoot at 5:45am I have an idea what he was doing before he had that food in his system - even if it's only been in him for less than 2 hours.
So - hang in there
 
I'm going to buy some U100 syringes today. Measuring .5 in the U40 is difficult to say the least. Do you think, based on the numbers yesterday and this morning, that I should continue the .5 dosage? I do want to post on the Prozinc section. I will go and post a link to this thread.

The water consumption drop is dramatic since we started the insulin not even a week ago. I was filling the bowl in the kitchen twice a day, and felt like Hercules when I emptied the cat box daily.

I'm trying to get a handle on when and how often I should be testing. I know that I am supposed to test before I shoot, that is easy to predict, other times it's hard to be here at the correct time (if I even knew when the correct time was!).
 
Thank you for that thread. I will print it out before I hit the pharmacy. I won't be able to post on the PZI board today, four year old granddaughter arriving at any second and that's IT for me and any computer work. At least we have a plan for the next twelve hours!

That math is so confusing I am freaking out! Once I have them in front of me I think I will be able to figure it out. My friend is a nurse and I will ask her to help me.
 
I wasn't able to get the new syringes today. Do you think I should still give her the reduced dose of .5 since her numbers were higher today? I don't know if I should post this on the PZI board because I'm so new to this and I don't think I"m at their level yet. Plus I won't have time to do much typing tonight. If I don't hear back I'm still going to stay with the .5.
 
Test when you can- it's all good data. It's said that Nadair (the lowest point) is between 5-7 hours I believe so if you can check at +5 and +7 you'll get some good data - I liked to try and test every 2-3 hours in the beginning if I was around - now I feel lucky if I test once or twice between amps and pmps and than after pmps. I'd love to test Robbie right now but he's asleep and if I wake him by testing he'll want to eat again and he just ate!
Keep up the good work
 
I have the U-100 syringes here in my house, and I've printed out the conversion chart. I need advice: what dose should I use tonight? I I just had to feed her (them!) at +10. I wish I could test at the same time every day but I'm doing the best that I can. 0.6? Which would be 1.5 on the new U-100 syringe.
 
You can test again at +12 since it will be 2 hours since you fed and the number won't be food influenced. Yes, I would try .6 and it will be 1.5 on the new U100 needles.
 
Hi Joan,

I wanted to stop by and say welcome to the group. You are doing great so far.

The new syringes should make dosing much easier.

Robin
 
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