Curves and Doses - Basic Questions - PZI Use

  • Thread starter Thread starter Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)
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Carl & Polly & Bob (GA)

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I was thinking maybe we could get a "sticky" thread created with some basic statements on dosing and curves and logic?

Here are several things that I think should be readily available for people to review as needed (so we don't have to go looking for "I know I saw that recently...where was it?")

Early shots - ACT like a dose increase, so small reduction may be necessary.

Late shots - ACT like a dose decrease, so small increases may be necessary.

Curves - This is more of a question....
When you see a flat cycle, what can cause that?
I'm thinking a dose that is too high can cause it, as kitty bounces and surfs at a higher level all day. But what if it repeats for 2 or 3 days running? Does that indicate a dose that is actually not high enough? Not big enough to push down BG levels, so kitty just shrugs it off. If you are testing 2 or 3 times during the middle of the cycle, and there's no (or little) drop, does that mean you should increase the dose?

So I'm thinking we could have something like this:

A 50% or better drop indicates a dose that is sufficient, but not excessive
A flat curve after a steep drop is most likely a bounce from the low numbers.
A series of consecutive flat curves indicates that ___________________ (fill in the blanks).
An inverse curve indicates _____________________________

Does anybody else think this might help us to recall or reference some basic assumptions about how PZI works? Especially if you need some advice and nobody is on the board except the person with the questions?

Thoughts, additions, corrections?

Carl
 
Re: Curves and Doses - Basic Questions

I think it's a great idea Carl. That early/late rule always confused me too. I finally wrote some of those things down but it would be nice to have it all right on the board. Joanna wrote up a couple of posts about ketones, etc but we keep having to bump them to the top & I think everyone forgets to do that, including myself. I wonder how we get them to stay permanetly at the top?
 
Re: Curves and Doses - Basic Questions

That is a great idea Carl..thanks :mrgreen:
I can never remember the increase/decrease thing.

I dont know about the curve issue though, I am thinking maybe a dose should not be considered
for just one curve. Only because with Shakes, for some unknown reason, I will consistently have
one 12 hour with good numbers and one 12 hour with bad numbers. I dont think it is any kind of bounce
it is just something that he does.
just my thoughts from whathappens with Shakes and I dont want anyone who is new to think
that they had one flat curve, think it is too much and reduce.....
 
Re: Curves and Doses - Basic Questions

I like this but may I make a request? Would you start this off with something like 'Using PZI' or something to indicate WHAT insulin this doc is for?

When I come to the forum to view new postings, I go to the front index page and click 'View New Posts'......this gives me ALL new posts regardless of the forum it's posted in. I quite often forget to look and see if the subforum is Lantus, PZI, Humulin, etc. Seeing this as a doc header will quickly tell me it's not for MY case.

Happy Sunday!
 
Re: Curves and Doses - Basic Questions

Good idea. I think you have to ask a.moderator to make it a sticky. Get a "final" form and then request sticky status.
 
After the last couple of nights, I think one "rule" we should stress is to try to make sure kitty is "rising" before dosing. Especially for newer users who haven't yet figured out what a dose will do. I'm thinking kitties like Risky, Sumo and Ozzie. None of us has a real idea yet what a unit of PZI will do for them. We all know "start low and go slow" makes a lot of sense, and that the "normal" starting dose is 1u BID. Risky came to us on 8u, we all thought a start-over was in order, of course not knowing there was a UTI lurking below the surface, and that caused havoc for the first week or two. Same with Ozzie the last couple of days. Cut down from 3 to 1 was logical, but look how he reacts to just 1 unit! Tonight, he may not have been rising at PMPS, but a +10 would have determined that. Telling people they have to not feed, test again, and wait is a great idea, but the down side of it is that the shot (if given) ends up being late, then the cycle and PS times get all wonky, and you have to try to figure dose reductions and increases based on early or late shots, which is confusing enough for people who have been doing this for months. I'm guessing it's really confusing and overwhelming to newbies.
Maybe we should stress a +10 or +11 test as a good routine?
Just a thought
Carl
 
Well, I have to say that +10 test saved us last night. But I have a kitty that usually nadirs later (and yes he's weird too).
 
I love the idea of a Sticky that has the basic info of dosing and logic! I think being new, you automatically think high numbers mean kitty needs more insulin. I don't think I am the only person that thinks that way(as far a newbies go) But the more I read the posts, I can see there is a whole process to consider. If there was a reference chart, or as you said a basic information post that I could refer to, that would help alot! I was in a situation the other night. Sumo was high on the amps at 421 and then came way down on pmps to 217. I didn't know what to do, so I posted and asked for help. But Sumo was do for his insulin at that time. I felt anxious while waiting for a response, knowing his whole cycle would be thrown off. I was already thinking about dosing for the following morning because his shot would be early. Anyway, having a "sticky" would have made me less anxious and possibly able to figure out his dose and give it to him. I wish I had the opportunity to check a +11, but many times I walk in the door with just enough time to check a reading,feed and dose. Two thumbs up from me for a information sticky !!
Mary
 
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