Curve or no Curve

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Jane Anne

Member Since 2015
My vet doesn't believe in doing a curve. She likes to take a look at the 4 hour point, and make her decision on the proper dosage from that. Most other stuff I read says a curve is important. We are sort of new at all this diabetes stuff, and really could use some advice from some of the veterans out there.
Thanks
 
Testing at +4 hours post-shot doesn't tell you the lowest a cat is going to go. That low point, or nadir, is typically in the +5 to +7 hours post shot for long acting insulins.
If you are using Vetsulin/Caninsulin, Humulin/Novolin NPH, then +4 hours nakes sense.
Frequent home testing in the likely nadir period, in addition to pre-shots removes the need for a vet visit.
 
BJM said:
Testing at +4 hours post-shot doesn't tell you the lowest a cat is going to go. That low point, or nadir, is typically in the +5 to +7 hours post shot for long acting insulins.
If you are using Vetsulin/Caninsulin, Humulin/Novolin NPH, then +4 hours nakes sense.
Frequent home testing in the likely nadir period, in addition to pre-shots removes the need for a vet visit.
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We are using ProZinc as our insulin, giving 1.5 units twice a day. I also have read that the nadir is at 5-7 hour period. I am still confused over the need for a curve. Sounds as though you don't recommend it.
 
Jane Anne said:
My vet doesn't believe in doing a curve. She likes to take a look at the 4 hour point, and make her decision on the proper dosage from that. Most other stuff I read says a curve is important. We are sort of new at all this diabetes stuff, and really could use some advice from some of the veterans out there.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Welcome Jane Anne, I know when I first had a diagnosis of diabetes for my little guy I felt really out of my league and was not sure about anything. I'm still pretty new and don't know a lot but there are a few things that I know for sure. Testing at home so you are informed about what the Blood Glucose levels are in your cat is the first step to really helping them get better and perhaps more importantly keeping them safe from hypoglycemia. I bought the AlphaTrak meter from the vets office because I didn't know any better, but you can use a much less expensive human meter and it really is not a big deal to do it once you and your cat get the hang of it. People here will give you all the help and support you need to be successful. :)
My vet also didn't really want me to test so much at home, but he has really come around recently especially when I showed him my beautiful color coded spreadsheet and could speak knowledgeably about Radar's numbers. In the beginning, I only told the vet the numbers he wanted to have from a curve to make his decision and continued my education quietly at home with the help of people here.
I hope this is helpful to you. Please let us know what your questions are - even if you feel like you have a lot of questions - we would be happy to help you and your kitty. :)
 
If you want a curve, get one at home. You just test from pre-shot to pre-shot, every 2 hours. Saves you money, plus the numbers will be more accurate. Vet stress can raise glucose 100-180 mg/dL, at least in 1 study.
 
My vet doesn't want me to test between curves, because she says it will just make me crazy and make micro changes in dosing based on numbers that are very fickle - and she scolded me when she found out I was "spot testing" between curves and adjusting doses. I think she's wrong, and if I feel like I should - such as today after she had a 69 BG before the shot I was supposed to give her last night - I will test her after morning meal, at 4 hours out and after evening meal. By the way, Vivian is on Lantus and hits her low at +4 so I'd say the nadir varies with individual cats. I use the evening BG reading to determine if and what I will give her, when I test. She could be quite low at +4 but back up in the 120's after dinner. It seems to me it's a question of knowing your individual cat, and I am puzzled as to why vets think we shouldn't or are not capable of making informed decisions.
 
Ya.. I had that happen as well, just remember YOU are paying the vet you can fire the vet! My best advise is to know your cat, you know when he/she is not feeling well trust your instincts. If I had not trusted mine.. Magellan very likely would have died or been very, very ill due to my vet's advise and instructions. Huggles you can do this, you can beat this disease or at least slap it into submission! What are you feeding your fur baby, where are you located?? Jane you have done nothing wrong, read the various stickies on the site knowledge is a powerful tool that with your love will see you through the worst that can happen ok??? Have faith in yourself and your fur baby, what BG monitor are you using??? I use relion micro and micro strips that I got at walmart. :bighug: :bighug: :coffee: :coffee: :cat: :cat:
 
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Jane Anne said:
Most other stuff I read says a curve is important.
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'Most other stuff' is correct. :)

Curves are necessary in order to determine how blood glucose levels are affected by a particular dose of insulin, and also the duration of the dose's effectiveness. Curves and regular spot checks are fundamental to successful management of diabetes.
.
 
We have 2 protocols, or sets of rules, for using Lantus optimally.
Tight Regulation
Start Low, Go Slow

The most critical thing to know about Lantus is that it does take 5-7 days for the dose to stabilize its effects on the first dose, and then 3-5 days for each changed dose after that.
 
What time is it?????? Oh, I know! Time to get a new vet.;) (Um ... seriously. Follow your gut, Jane Anne.)
And just so you know - I've received better guidance to get my cat's diabetes under control safely from the kind mentors here at FDMB than I received from either of my (well-intentioned, but not-s0-well-informed) vets.
 
Apologies - was working from my phone and its tiny screen.
Should you decide to go vet shopping, see my signature link Vet Interview Topics in my signature link.
 
Laura Nels said:
My vet doesn't want me to test between curves, because she says it will just make me crazy and make micro changes in dosing based on numbers that are very fickle - and she scolded me when she found out I was "spot testing" between curves and adjusting doses. I think she's wrong, and if I feel like I should - such as today after she had a 69 BG before the shot I was supposed to give her last night - I will test her after morning meal, at 4 hours out and after evening meal. It seems to me it's a question of knowing your individual cat, and I am puzzled as to why vets think we shouldn't or are not capable of making informed decisions.
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Laura is absolutely right here: There's no way to get a good sense of your individual cat's patterns of metabolizing insulin without regular BG testing and, from time to time, full (& mini) curves. Every cat's own body reacts in its own unique way to insulin; more data = more safety! My kitty - on ProZinc for five months - doesn't always nadir at the same time: Sometimes she's hit her low at +3.5; other times at +4, +5 or +6.

Any vet who discourages you from home testing, curves, etc. to accumulate the data you need to make informed decisions is someone who (in my opinion) is using a potentially dangerous "cookie-cutter" approach to treating feline diabetes.
 
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