Cromwell the Diabetic Cat

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Jeannette

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In the fall last year I traveled to Wisconsin for a week and to Las Vegas for 2 weeks. These trips were seperated by about a month. My neighbor has been kind enough to water and feed Cromwell as well as sitting here with him and turning on the TV during the day for noise when I am gone. I returned from the first trip and he was so glad to see me that I couldn't get away from him. He was either following me around the house or sitting on my lap. After the second trip, Cromwell had lost most of the fur on his right side up to the neck. In addition, he had bald spots on his back "knees". We took him to the vet who took skin from his bald spots to send to the lab looking for parasites or allergies. I suggested to them that I thought Cromwell had suffered from seperation anxiety and, on the third trip to the vet, Cromwell received a steroid shot. After $800 the diabetes diagnosis came in with a level of 523. They kept him overnight and tested him every 4 hours. By the time I went to pick him up the next morning, his level was 68. 523 is far too high, but the 68 seemed to me to be a bit low as the vet told me the range for cats was the same as for humans -- 65 to 120. I have been giving him 8 units of vetsillin every morning at 9:30. Iim I asked the vet if I could test him at home and was told that I didn't need to be concerned about that. It is difficult to keep from the worry about the money as I am a survivor of bilateral lung transplant and have medical costs and prescription costs out of this world. Cromwell has been with me for almost 12 years. He did get up to 25 pounds at his peak but as a result of the diet I have had him on, he has lost a total of 10 pounds and is a very svelt 15 pounds. The vet wants him to lose 2 more pounds to attain ideal weight. She also put him on Hill's Prescription W/D which she says will also help lose the 2 pounds. She has limited his food intake to 7/8 cup of food per day. Cromwell seems to be doing well except that he is still drinking quite a lot of water.

My question is two fold: Should he still be drinking so much water (although it probably isn't bad for him) and should I not be monitoring his levels at home? She said I didn't need to bring him back for 2-3 months. That seems like taking a lot for granted in that he will continue to receive 8 units of vetsillin per day and may not need that much. I don't want to lose Cromwell over insullin overdose.

Jeannette

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hi jeannette and welcome.

yes. that's the answer to the most important question which is should you be hometesting. :)

to be quite honest, that much vetsulin is a problem along with the fact that you are giving it only once a day if i read right?

which, to go off on a completely different tangent for a second, did you know that vets have been advised by the FDA or the manufacturers of vetsulin that they should be switching their current clients to a different insulin as they discovered a mixture or efficacy problem with vetsulin recently??

so yes, get a meter and start testing. it is not that hard to do and you don't need anyone's permission to do it. if nothing else, do it for yourself so you can have that peace it will give you.

and as far as the vetsulin dose goes, i'll leave that to others 'cause my gut says whoaaaaaaaa but it has to be handled carefully so as not to make your cat sicker.

and then water consumption. is the food wet or dry? dry food encourages dehydration so that could be part of the water consumption problem along with out of control diabetes can too. and by out of control i mean the most likely very lows your kitty is getting along with really high numbers from possible rebound from those low numbers.

don't worry. we'll help you get this straightened out :)
 
Hi Jeanette,

This is a wonderful place to get support and get your questions answered. I know this is hard, but your vet is wrong on several counts. 8 units of vetsulin is a lot of insulin. What dose did he start on and how fast has it been raised? Are you giving 4 units twice a day? Or 8 at one time? Insulin metabolizes best in cats 12 hours intervals.

Dry food is not ideal for diabetic cats. See this site by a vet to learn why: http://www.catinfo.org. Lots of us feed Fancy Feast or Friskies or Wellness. BUT DO NOT CHANGE TO WET FOOD UNTIL YOU ARE HOMETESTING. When we changed from dry to wet, Oliver's numbers came down 100 points overnight. Thank goodness we were hometesting or we would have overdosed him.

You need to hometest. If Cromwell was your child, you wouldn't just have the doctor give you a dose and come back in a few weeks. You would test before each shot, which is what we do with our cats. It's not hard to do. Here's a video that will give you an idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8

I know it is hard to consider the advice of strangers on the internet over your vet. But all of us have had or currently have a diabetic cat and the cats are doing well - regulated or off the juice. Most vets are like GPs - they know a little bit about a lot of things. But very few of them know a lot about diabetics.
 
Hi Jennette

Welcome to the Family

Most defiantly you to home test, just because your vet isn't recommending it , doesn't mean he will not be happy to receive all the data you can gather. Remember, you kitty is very stressed while at the vet, and that will make a difference in his numbers. The information you are able to obtain will greatly assist in determining where his insulin need actually are. I do not have enough experience in dosing to offer advice, so I will leave that to others here are far better equipped to assist you. But 8 units seems like a lot to me, even for a 15lb kitty. Has he been checked for any underlying causes that make him would require such a large dose?

I noticed you said he is on Hills w/d prescription diet, you can do much better for him. These so called prescription diets are garbage, they are filled with meat by-products, grains and unfortunately many times even soy, which has been known to cause allergies in cats. Cats are obligate carnivores and require a species specific diet, dry food just doesn't cut it. Check out Janet and Binky's list, you will find many foods to choose from that are far better suited for not only your cats nutritional needs but for your pocket book as well. But as other have said, don't change from dry to wet until you are home testing, his insulin needs will change, and you don't want to accidentally hypo your kitty. Also, consider adding exercise, if he need to lose another pound or two, diet alone won't do the job. Just like us humans, kitties need exercise. I actually have my kitty Tananda walking on a treadmill for 6 minutes 3x a day.

Best of Luck
Terri
 
WELCOME, this forum is a great place to gain knowledge and really learn how to manage feline diabetes. By doing just a few things each day (that really won't take up much of your time at all), you won't need to worry about losing your precious cat, not where feline diabetes is concerned.

There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin

1) Feline Nutrition: Now, as far as diet - definitely dump the dry food (if you are feeding any) and if the vet recommends purchasing prescription food like DM just say "no thank you". ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.

Here great links, one is to a food chart put together by one of our board members that breaks down the carb % and protein % of most of the commercial brand foods. You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. The other link is to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... there is in-depth info. there about many things, including nutrition and how to make raw food.
Nutrition/food info

The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.


2. Home testing: It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).

Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.

Our kitties get lots of love and treats for "putting up" with this and most of them actually come out to be tested on their own 'cause they want those treats . Here is a collection of great links that "Carolyn and Spot" pulled together about hometesting. See what you think ... it truly is the best way to not only keep Your cat safe but also really get a handle on this disease and help him to live a healthy life with FD (feline diabetes).

Home testing Links

3. Insulin: There are several types of insulin available. Many people, myself included use Lantus or Levimer both of which are great insulins. They are gentle insulin and given twice (BID) per day in 12 hour increments. Or you could also choose PZI or the new version called Prozinc.

Please read up on the insulins available, here is a link to the Insulin Support Groups:

Insulin Support Groups

However, one caveat and again this shows how these three things are inter-related:

If you are feeding dry food or even a high carb food, BEFORE removing these foods, please make sure of your insulin dose as it will most likely need to be reduced, so as to avoid a possible hypoglycemic situation due to the removal of the dry/high carb foods that will lower the BG’s and reduce the amount of insulin required. Again, another reason why home testing is important.

I know this all seems like a lot, and that's because it is ... there is a learning curve here. But as long as you are determined and keep at it, you will have it down before you know it and you'll be seeing the results in Your cat' overall health and happiness. Ask all the questions you can think of - that's why we are here!

Also, if you haven't done it yet, take the time and fill out your profile. It will help when others come on and read this. Also, let us know where you live - city/state as there are probably people in your area who can provide on the ground support and help you to learn home testing, etc.
 

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WOW! Not only did I not expect such an expediant reply and so many. As I read through all responses I saw a pattern of "no dry food", home checking blood glucose and information on the vetsillin. I am so new at this with my cat, however, when I was hospitalized at transplant and for a multitude of complications, my BG was taken before each meal and at bedtime. I never received more than 6 units, but stayed around 2-3. I want to trust my vet but got the feeling she was not taking time to explain all that you all have explained. I will not wait until my next appointment to address all of your offered issues with her.

Thank you all for your prompt responses. It really gives me comfort to know that you all seem to agree on the important issue in that the vetsillin may kill my cat if it is not regulated to fit him. Something new that I have learned is that vetsillin is not the best choice either along with negative response to the food they said he needed at $45 a bag.

Thanks again,
Jeannette
 
OMG did he start at 8 units?

Honestly, you may have the nicest vet in the world but the dose is insane, the food is old school, and vetsulin is a twice a day insulin that has been recalled. There are way better ways to go about treatment! Definitely read the faq linked further up in this forum and come back with more questions

Jen
 
e][/color]I sent the information that you all have provided me on to my veterinarian and let them know that I felt my cat was not being properly monitored, was getting far too much insullin to begin with but, should be monitored and given appropriate doses. In addition, I told then "no, thank you" on their Hill's Prescription W/D. I am working on getting information on how to mix food for him at home. Surprisingly, they have not responded to my e-mail of which they have had for 2 days. I will find a new veterinarian expediently.

I can't thank you all for the guidence you have provided me. I will be checking in as I walk this path for my beloved friend, Cromwell the Diabetic Cat. I am hopeful that his weight loss will render him diabetes free.

God Bless,
Jeannette

Don't take your organs to Heaven,
Heaven knows we need them here.
Be a Hero. Be an Organ Donor.
 
Jeanette,

Sure sounds like you have decided to take the bulll by the horns and figure this diabetes thing out for yourself and Cromwell. Good for you! We will be here to help you when you need it.


If you want to post your city and state, there may be someone who lives nearby who knows a good diabetic vet.
 
Thank you very much. I live in Denver, Colorado. I have taken this bull by the horns because we just lost his friend Louise (we called her Wheezie) to tumors on her kidneys and just a week ago, had to put our little minitature schnauzer down. She was just old and had started losing control of her hind legs causing her to fall. She was estimated to be 14 as we adopted her from the Humane Society after a puppy farm bust 11 years ago. I am not willing to lose another pet this year due to veterenary ignorance. If anyone knows of a vet that embraces the opinion of this group, I would be thankful. In the meantime, I will interview vets beginning with those close to my home and fanning out from there.

I will stay in touch with this site and lean on it for support in this venture. And of course, Cromwell will be thankful, too, as soon as we get insullin regulated and new diet. It is nice to know there are shoulders to lean on until I really know how life will be and can take part in responses as all of you have sent me.

Thanks again,
Jeannette
 
Hey, another Rocky Mountain person! We have a number of people in Denver and Arvada. I live in Colorado Springs, but my vet does know some Denver vets who she can recommend, if you don't get a first hand referral. Why don't you start a new topic and ask for feline diabetes vet in Denver? You might put it on the Commmunity forum also. I am sure we can find one for you.
 
Thanks. I will look into that tomorrow AM and am also checking into food options for him. I saw a commercial for Fresh Pet Select tonight and wondered if any of you are familiar. Please, advise.
 
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