Could I get some help?

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PeterDevonMocha

PeterDevonMocha

Member Since 2009
My friend has a young female kitty that has been getting in her LB but yelping, and not peeing much. My friend knew she wasn't feeling well so she took her to the vet today and the vet pulled urine from her. Said the kitty has crystals in her urine and gave her AB's and of course, a bag of dry cat food called crystal diet.

I asked on the health board what she should do about this, and was given a link. I read the link but to be honest, it kinda confused me :oops: What I got from it is the cat should definitely be on a wet cat food (does it matter what kind???) and that AB's really shouldn't be given to a cat under the age of 10?

I know my friend is worried about her kitty, and she is looking at me for advice, but I don't want to give her the wrong advice either.

Any help is greatly appreciated!!
 
Thanks Liz .. I feel bad for her too .. and of course, all my friends/family think I'm the go to cat lady when really, I don't know a whole heck of a lot either!

But here is the link, you kinda have to go to about the middle of the page to get to the info on crystals .. and the picture of the kitty in pain is not easy to look at, so be warned .. :sad:

http://www.catinfo.org/#Cystitis_
 
Devon:

That is Dr. Lisa's website and, frankly, I agree 100%...no dry food and ABs are not needed for crystals (I won't comment on the "no ABs for cats under 10" because I never say never). Did they do a culture and sensitivity? That is the only way to determine if there is bacteria and, if there is, the correct AB to use. If there is no bacteria, no ABs. The problem is, too many vets treat symptoms of UTI as UTI. So if the cat presents with running back and forth to the box, straining, producing only a small amount of urine, perhaps blood....they treat the symptom. But if you read on Dr. Lisa's website in that section, she says it is a joke among vets and they frequently say:

"Sterile cystitis patients get better in 1 week with antibiotics and in 7 days without antibiotics."
Click to expand...

Also, your friend needs to be sure the UA was run quickly. Urine that sits for a while can develop what appears to be crystals. So it's important that the lab ran it quickly and really verified it as such. Crystals can be painful. So I'd be sure the kitty gets on a high quality CANNED or raw diet, get a couple of fountains for the kitty as they like to drink running water, add a tsp or two to every single helping of canned food, give her Rescue Remedy for Pets (this has no alcohol in it), to help her destress when she has an episode because it is PAINFUL. I would also talk to the vet about some pain meds for when she has an episode. Gracie had sterile interstitial cystitis and I gave her a low dose of bupe when the episode would onset.
 
Well, it would have been more helpful if BJ pointed you to the section on urinary track obstructions. I'd suggest your friend used a canned food diet and add water to the food. However, it depends on what kind of crystals the vet found. Struvite crystals can be dissolved with a special diet. Some of these diets are dry food; some manufacturers have a canned food diet. Calcium oxalate crystals will not respond to a dietary intervention BUT they usually don't show up as crystals in the urine. This may be a more useful link regarding bladder stones for your friend. There are two separate sections on obstructions/bladder stones in cats your friend should look at.

A good friend of mine has a male cat who has a history of crystals. The only thing that's controlled it is a diet formulated for struvite crystals. It's dry food. He gets a combination of Wellness canned and his dry, prescription food. I trust the vet -- they use the same vet as I do. However, if this were my cat, I'd be opting for a prescription, canned food diet vs. dry.

If your friend doesn't already have one, suggest she get a water fountain for her cat. These are the kind of water bowls that have a pump and circulate water. It may entice her cat to drink more. If she's not using clumping litter, she should change over since she will be better able to monitor urine output.

Pardon me but, WTF? If a 5 year old cat has an infection, according to the information you received you don't treat it? That's like saying if you have a 2 year old with an infection you don't give an antibiotic. Of course, like Marje noted, a sterile sample needs to have been drawn. I think what you were reading about was sterile cystitis. This condition isn't treated with antibiotics. Like I said, it would have been helpful if you'd been directed to the appropriate section of Dr. Lisa's page on urinary track problems.
 
I can only wish your friend's kitty luck and hope that your friend will put her on a wet canned cat food diet.
Sending healing vines to your friend's kitty.
 
My boy (civvie) Sandy just had a complete blockage - and this can be VERY dangerous - particularly for a male cat.

He was in at the vet w/ a catheter for 24 hours, then came home. He's on Royal Canin Urinary canned, and I'm mixing 1 can water with each can. He seems to be doing really well, although I have to credit my pet-sitters for that!

Because I was out of town, one of my pet-sitters dropped him off at the vet for the recheck and to get his port removed (in case they had to catheterize him again), and another picked him up and brought him home, I never heard the specifics of stone vs crystal. Will check tomorrow. He also had an AB (Clavomox) to take.

He looks and acts like he's feeling really good - thank goodness. Good luck!
 
Thanks you guys .. I will call her and tell her to get her kitty on wet cat food .. what do you recommend as a high quality cat food? She's young, and in college so she can't afford much ... she just about passed out at the 100.00 vet bill today! I told her that maybe even something as simple as the special kitty from walmart could work for now .. simply because it is wet?? She told me she kinda wants to use the dry food, since she paid nearly 20.00 for it and has already opened it up ..

Oh, and she did say that the vet called them struvite crystals ... and she leaves a huge bowl of water out for the kitty all day ..

I know she wants to get her kitty feeling better .. I wish I could help her more ..

Oh, and her kitty is a girl, if that makes a difference ..
 
Unfortunately, Jr. Mint, one of Blackie's sons, had a UTI infection. He did have AB's to clear it, 2 rounds' worth, and 1 hospital stay. Before treatment, though, there was some blood in his urine. He, too, was straining before treatment. He's eating the dry Evo 95% Chicken & Turkey (or Turkey & Chicken, but it's the purple bag), and it has a very low magnesium value in it. He does drink a lot of water, and goes to the LB at least 3 - 4x/day. With Blackie, who eats only the Evo wet food (same flavor), I always add at least 2 tsps. or a bit more of water to her main meals, and 6 tsps. or more to her snacks. There have been times when she'll go to to the water bowl for an added lap of water.

I hope that your friend's kitty gets better soon.
 
Thanks angela .. my friend did not mention anything about blood in her urine, so maybe the vet did not see any of that? I'm not sure how long her kitty has not been feeling well, hopefully not long at all .. and hopefully starts feeling better soon!
 
Hi Devon, bless you for helping your friend with her kitty. You've gotten a lot of excellent help here. I just want to send some healing vines for this special kitty. Keep us updated on her. What is her names?
 
Thanks Ann, I have passed on all that I read here to her .. I'm hoping she really puts her kitty on wet cat food .. I've tried telling her it would be good for both of her kitties .. her kitties name is peanut :-D
 
I'd suggest your friend used a canned food diet and add water to the food. However, it depends on what kind of crystals the vet found. Struvite crystals can be dissolved with a special diet. Some of these diets are dry food; some manufacturers have a canned food diet
Click to expand...

So, now she should stick to the dry the vet prescribed? I'm sorry that I'm not getting this .. I thought extra water was what should be given?

I read the article and it says
Because changes in food can also result in recurrence of FIC in some cats, the cat's diet should remain consistent in both content and schedule.
Click to expand...
Should she continue feeding what she was feeding? I know it also said stress can sometimes cause this, and she did just move into an apartment with her new boyfriend only about two weeks ago ...
 
As much as I sorta kinda hate to jump into this discussion...and there is no scientific evidence I can cite for the following, I just gotta throw in here:

I have a neutered male cat that is probably about 10 y/o now (he's the one that was left anonymously in my car in a cardboard box while I was at work at the age of what was probably about 3 wks (his, not mine)). I kept him (of course) and had him neutered as soon as I could, at that time it was recommended @ 6-8months. W/in the 1st couple yrs of his life he had problems w/crystals. He would strain, bloat, blood in the urine, etc. He went back & forth to the vet & had several catheters. If I remember correctly at one point she said she actually dilated (excuse the following graphic un-medical descriptions) his penis and that if that did not help she actually recommended amputating his penis in order to enlarge the opening. I have no idea what kind of crystals these were. For a while he got $30/box wet food, I think it was m/d but it was a long time ago, but there came a point where this expense was just not feasible. He was never amputated.

Anyway the rest of this long story short, I finally switched him to 9-Lives Plus Care (yes, I know, it's kibble but Tink & Tawny don't get near it) and he has been fine for many many yrs on that. But if the store is out of it and I have to feed something else, I notice him straining. I buy the big bags, they run between $10-12, and all my kitties that don't get the wet (that would be Tink and Tawny) get this. 9-Lives Plus Care is designed for urinary tract health (or so it says on the bag).

You mentioned your friend's budget, so this might be an option for her to try/consider. There seemed to be some conflicting advice above re wet vs. dry, and I am not saying one is better than the other, I am just saying this is what has worked for Buck and all my other dry-fed kitties for years, and I have more males than females. With 16 cats it is impossible to keep them all on wet food, so this is what we do.

& one last point: I later heard that male cats should never be neutered before the age of 1 year, that if they are neutered b4 that they are not fully developed in that area and that can therefore cause problems w/crystals. I have no idea if there is any scientific basis to this or not but I do not neuter any of my male cats now before that 1 year mark, just in case.

I gotta tell you, tho, I had a devil of a time keeping my last rescue--Angus (yes, he is named after one of the founders of AC/DC b/c he was rescued on the day of their last New Orleans concert I didn't get to go to) in the house until that 1 yr mark tho!

Just wanted to throw all that out there....

Desi
 
Thanks everyone .. There is a lot of advice here and while it's probably not really conflicting advice, it's not totally making sense in my head either .. :oops: .. Reading health articles online often read like a foreign language to me .. and as you can all see, while it's also broken down into laymans terms I still get confused ohmygod_smile

I'm reading that some people recommend wet cat food, some people have had better experience with dry .. Should I tell her to just simply follow her vet's advice, until the LB action improves and then make the switch over to wet, since we all know wet is better anyways?

Thanks again guys .. and sorry if you feel like hitting your head on a wall .. :lol: .. no really, I am sorry :oops:
 
Let me see if I can simplify.

Crystals are more common in male cats -- their plumbing is poorly designed. They obviously can happen in female cats.

Water is essential. Because canned food has a MUCH higher moisture content, it's preferred over dry. (The water issue is why several of us have suggested a water fountain.) Adding water to canned food can help. (Think of a crystal like salt. If you keep adding water to salt, it begins to dissolve. Same principle.) Cats often don't spontaneously drink. This is among the reasons that canned food is better for a cat -- they get the moisture they need from their food much like if they were living in the wild. In addition, dry food often has ingredients that are not digestible for a cat (e.g., grains).

There are 2 types of crystals: struvite and calcium oxalate. Struvite crystals can treated with a change in diet. This is where the "special" urinary tract diets come in. Some manufacturers have only a dry urinary tract diet; some have both canned and dry. Royal Canin SO and Hill's SD for example, have both canned and dry. I'd suggest she talk to her vet and explain that the prescription diets are very hard on her finances. Perhaps he can suggest a less expensive alternative. I don't know enough about the foods to make a recommendation. Or better yet, maybe her vet would talk to the pet food company representative to see if he can get samples for her.

Calcium oxalate stones will not be responsive to a change in diet. Lab tests would also show a high calcium level if this was the source of a blockage.

If an antibiotic was prescribed, it's important to know if urine was collected via a sterile sample (a cystocentesis) and if a culture and sensitivity was run. In addition, was the lab work done quickly since if the sample sits for too long, crystals may form due to evaporation. An antibiotic would be needed if there was a UTI. However, some cats have a condition called sterile cystitis. This is not an infection and would not require antibiotics. This problem is described in Dr. Lisa's link.

Some of this is confusing because the science appears to have changed. At one point, it was thought that food that was high in magnesium was contributing to crystals forming. It now appears that magnesium isn't the culprit -- too acidic urine is the cause. Thus, the urinary tract diets purpose is to reduce acid in the cat's waste producing process.

I disagree with Desi regarding when a male cat should be neutered. Usually, they are neutered at around 6 months or more. If you wait overly long, a male cat will start spraying which is a whole other set of unpleasantness.
 
Great summary, Sienne.

She can also ask if there is anything to add to the food to make the urine less acidic. I'd be sure and look at the urine pH. It should be around 6.0 or 6.5. If it's less than that, it's too acidic.
 
Great summary by Sienne above. Sometimes the struvite crystals are called triple phosphate crystals. My civie Theo had those and the vet originally recommended C/D as a maintenance food. They have both wet and dry versions of C/D. However, it is 22% carb and it was too difficult keeping Neko out of his food, he's a slower eater than her. I went back to the vet and asked what food a diabetic cat and he could eat, and her answer was raw food. So I switched them both to raw and he hasn't had any episodes since. Raw is a wetter food and I also add a couple tsps of water to each meal. Theo has never been a big drinker of water, which probably made the problem worse. At the time he got crystals, he was on half wet, half dry food. I at first thought raw would be expensive, but it's actually cheaper than what I was paying for the C/D food.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
Devon --

I don't think feeding any type of canned is appropriate.
Click to expand...

This confused me too, did you mean "any type of dry"? Your last post was in favor of canned, Sienne.

I know it isn't the best food because of the by products, but if she is on a budget Friskies has a Special Diet line that is also supposed to lower Ph. that should be a lot easier on her budget.
 
If these are the calcium oxalate crystals they may have to be removed surgically. Racci had these gallstones and had an operation to remove them. My male cat Midnight had a terrible problem with the struvite crystals and water was the #1 most important thing in his diet. He was constantly having to go in and have a catheter and liquids iv. My vet at that time had told me that females usually do Not get the struvite crystals. That would be rare. She ought to check on that. He also told me to buy bottled spring water and a fountain and that really helped. He had said the urinary tract food is helpful and it doesn't have to be the expensive prescription food.

Melanie & Racci
 
Thanks again everyone!

Sienee, that post was very clear to me! Like Ann, I was confused by your second post, where you said no canned food was appropriate, thought perhaps you meant dry, but didn't want to sound even more stupid :lol:

So I'm not sure if her vet ran a culture and sensitivity test or not, but I do know he pulled urine from her right there in the vets office (is that a cystocentesis?) and said it was struvite crystals. I believe she told me he prescribed AB's because there was inflammation? So since these are the crystals that can be dissolved with a special diet, she should either A) call her vet back and ask if he perhaps has a wet food that can help with the crystals or B) try cheaper wet canned food, say perhaps from the link that Ann posted, that would most likely be much, much cheaper on her wallet, correct?

And of course, water, water, water!

And one more question, now that peanut has suffered from crystals, is this going to be an on going life long problem? Will she always need special kitty food?
 
Also Ann, that link you sent, will any of those canned foods work? There looks to be about six different cans on that page, are they all good for crystals, or do they say it in particular at the store? (it's kinda hard to see online)
 
Sorry -- let me clarify. Canned food is fine, in fact way better than dry. However, if the vet's goal is to lower the level of acidity, not every variety of canned food may accomplish that goal. For example, diets that are heavy on fish may not be a good choice. I haven't a clue how we would know what kind of canned food would help to keep pH levels where they would need to be for a cat with struvite crystals.
 
Thanks Sienne, I totally understand that. I'll have her call her vet, and talk to him about getting her on wet canned food, and what the best option out there for her is! Maybe he will still recommend the dry, who knows, but I want her to at least check into it.
 
I know nothing about this subject. However, I know you said your friend was worried about money and because of that, she would probably stick with the expensive food from the vet. This is just a suggestion, but if she is not comfortable feeding her cat the dry (even if the bag is open), she should take it back. Honestly, I didn't think it was possible, until my vet told me that I could return the bag, opened or unopened, and they would credit my account. If nothing more, your friend should call her vet and see if this is even a possibility.

I found all of this out when Shasta was not doing well and I didn't know if she would make it another 48 hours. As I stood in the vet's office, talking to the office staff, I asked what I should do with the almost full bag of Hill's m/d...donate to a shelter, did they want it?! The nice lady told me that the food companies are very understanding and they would take back any food, for whatever reason. Just a thought. Best wishes to your friend and Peanut.
 
Thanks so much, I recommended to my friend that she call her vet about the cat food bag but she seemed pretty certain they would not take it back .. but perhaps she could do an exchange of some sort, dry for wet they might have that could help with her crystals. Thanks again everyone!
 
Devon,
She CAN take it back to the vet - the vet loses NOTHING as their vendors repay them for any returns. That's one of the big reasons the vets agree to carry these foods, there's no financial exposure for them doing it. They even take back old dated bags and restock them if desired.

BIG HUG!!!
 
Sorry, I'm late getting going today. The Friskies site I gave the link to has a page for each variety, just click the variety you are interested in. Two are made w/ fish so I would stay away from those, but they all say:
For Adult Cats Only
Helps maintain Urinary Tract Health By Reducing Urinary pH
Low Magnesium
Click to expand...

I can get it at the local super market and it goes on sale regularly at PetSmart, same price as all the other Friskies. the Turkey and Giblets is even low carb.
 
Shakespeare gets the cyctitus allthe time but from what I understand the treatment is the same
AB is usually not given,
I give Shakespeare only wet food as dry causes this to happen ,
also they are supposed to drink a lot of water, so what I do is open a can of tuna
and give him the tuna water with a capsule of the DAsuquin dissolved in the tuna water
that always helps him
Hopefully the kitty will feel better soon
 
Thanks you guys .. I'll send my friend the link with the kitty food on it, and mention the tuna water as well .. I'm hoping she takes my advice and calls her vet soon, about the wet food ...
 
For what it's worth, one of my civvies had chronic urinary problems years ago - I gave her Friskies urinary special diet and it really helped. Then after I put all my cats on all canned all the time the problem has not recurred.

I also had a male cat many years ago who had terrible problems with crystals, including a complete blockage. I got the penis amputation for him and it helped somewhat and removed the possibility of another blockage.
 
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