Copper- Stumped! What to do? Vote please

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owlgal

owlgal

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I'm stumped. I have been on the 1.6 or 1.7u dose for over two weeks. He seemed to be really doing good with some good blue's and even a green. Now he is not responding as well as he was. Should i go down to 1.6u and hold? Seems like he was doing good on that dose? OR should i stay with the 1.7u OR should i give the 1.8u a try? Need a vote and some eyes to look at SS and give thoughts, if you can. THANKS!!!!

1.6?
1.7?
1.8?
 
I dunno, seems you've tried a lot of doses over the last few months. This might sound nuts, but I noticed you just gave frontline. If you're concerned about the dose being too little because of tonight I have a theory: I stopped using the topical flea medication cause I noticed my cats acted strange for a couple days after the dose. If you go back and look at your ss, every time you give frontline your blues disappear after that cycle or the first cycle post medication and you run flat. Maybe I'm crazy....
 
I took a look at you SS. To me the numbers don't look to bad. I do have a couple of questions that may or may not help you look at something's or think about some things.

A couple days ago you had a PMPS-395 & you shot 1.6, then you had the same AMPS-395 & shot 1.7. I was wondering we you didn't stick with 1.6?

Another thing I noticed & maybe this was explained in one of your threads...during the day you shot mostly 1.7 & evenings you shot 1.6. There were some days when you had a AMPS that was lower then a PMPS & you gave the 1.7 in the AM.

So know this might bring you to the question what do you do....I would stay with 1.6 with every cycle for about 5-7 days. Most of your numbers fall into pretty much the same range. Yes you have some higher 300s & that's where I might go with 1.7.

Just something to think about. I am by far not a dosing expert.
 
Amps 333
Fed (raw turkey)
Shot 1.7u

Wasn't really sure what to do today. Just went ahead and gave the 1.7u. Almost tried the 1.8u , but have to go out this afternoon. He seemed to respond good on the 1.6u and 1.7u. Now all his ps's are going high and his nadir not too good anymore. Not sure what is going on. Don't think it is the frontline plus, because he was doing this before the frontline. I hate using it, but have to because of the terrible fleas and ticks. They were really bad last summer and they have already started to be bad again and it's not even summer yet. So i don't have a choice on that. I'm sure though it doesn't make them feel good for a day or so.

I guess i'm stumpped because he does well on a lower dose and then doesn't, so i go higher. I have allowed plenty of time for it to settle in. He responds to the higher and then down the road it goes bad again. So not sure if i should keep climbing up the ladder on dosage since he is getting a green and blue's, or just go lower and hold and see what happens. When i look back on his SS. He was getting same numbers on lower doses of 1.0 or 1.2. So i just don't know.

What do you all think???
 
Thanks Jenn for posting. we must of been posting at the same time.

To answers some questions: Yes, i usually do the 1.7u in the day and 1.6u at night. Mainly because i really need the sleep at night and can't stay up all night checking him and i want to give his ears a rest overnight. I do test right before bedtime which is about +3 or +4. There were times i was only doing the 1.6u during the day because i was at a conference and wasn't home to test. DH was watching and doesn't test. So i went lower. It does seem he responded good on the 1.6u with lower ps's. I guess it throws me off because i will get lower ps's numbers and shoot lower and then the next ps number is high. Not sure if it's because the dose is not high enough or that he went low. When i do test him, he doesn't seem to go that low, so don't know why he would bounce. So why the high ps's numbers i'm not sure. There just isn't any consistant pattern to follow. Maybe your right and just stick with the 1.6u consistantly (ie 5days) and see what happens. Thanks for looking!

lori
 
At least if you stick with the 1.6u for a little while, maybe you can gather enough data to see a pattern? A pattern...wouldn't that be nice?? :roll:
 
amps: 333
+4 257

Disapointing....Hoping he will continue to drop, but i seem to doubt it. Still not sure if i should go higher or lower. Maybe today will give me more clues? WHo knows.
 
OUR CATS KNOW - sure wish they'd clue us in! I had thought maybe we needed to do a video conference and let them get together to write a "How-To" Book for us, but more and more I'm afraid they'd use that time to cook up new schemes -

I don't know, Lori - if the 1.7u didn't give you the drop you wanted - you could try the 1.6 and stay with it a few cycles to see if you get better numbers. At least that way you'd (hopefully) be able to see which way to go with the dosing (scratches head)
 
+6 197

Some movement, but not enough. Thanks for all the thoughts everyone! Hopefully the pmps won't be too high.
 
Lori -

I'm looking at Copper's spreadsheet, and it really looks like you've had good numbers and patterns over the past several weeks. Lotsa blues and yellows -pink & yellow preshots - and no reds or blacks. So although the pinks seem to bother you, he's getting a good run w/ the 1.6-1.8 as you've been giving it. I think if you want to see the pinks disappear and the greens appear, probably an ever-so-slight bump in the dose would do it as Robin suggested, but I wouldn't veer far off the course you've been holding. The numbers look really good to me.

Lu-Ann
 
pmps@ 323
fed
shot 1.6u

Thanks for the input everyone!

Hope you all have some great cycles!
 
I think you're seeing insulin resistance.... you mentioned that he seems to do well for the first couple of days on a new dose, then it gets flat and not so good. I think either the increases are in too small increments, or not often enough. Remember what Dr. P. said about "repeatability"? If you see less action, and repeated flat cycles, that's when you make a decision (up or down). It's like Copper gets used to a dose, then he needs a change.

Carl
 
That's right Carl! I forgot obout what she said. SO a bam dose up? I went down tonight and he is lower now. I might try the lower dose tomorrow and see where he goes. IF nowhere, then i guess i can try again to raise next week sometime.

Thanks for input! Where have you've been these days?

pm +4 230
 
Hi Lori,

I've been working, trying to fix a million things wrong with my "new" house, nursing an aging back back into shape, and reading a lot. This week started all the local "spring breaks", and the island has gone instantly from "winter mode" to "full out busy season" in a matter of days. Sort of winded, but one more day and I actually get two days off!!!
Tongiht, I was writing my manifesto...
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=67645&p=736032#p736032

Carl
 
Catannc said:
I dunno, seems you've tried a lot of doses over the last few months. This might sound nuts, but I noticed you just gave frontline. If you're concerned about the dose being too little because of tonight I have a theory: I stopped using the topical flea medication cause I noticed my cats acted strange for a couple days after the dose. If you go back and look at your ss, every time you give frontline your blues disappear after that cycle or the first cycle post medication and you run flat. Maybe I'm crazy....
Click to expand...

Whether this pans out or not, Cathy, I thought it was an incredible observation.

Carl
 
Well, i thought I was full of crap, and I don't think it's a problem for this kitty, but I inadvertently came across this while looking for info on Prozac in cats:

Heartworm and flea/tick preventionEdit

* Heartworm[1][2][3][4][5][6] and flea/tick prevention medications are known to produce temporary high blood glucose levels in some diabetic dogs. In the affected animals, glucose levels return to normal a few days after the medication is used--loss of control being temporary.
Just as all diabetics are not troubled with post-prandial spikes or dawn phenomenon, not all diabetic pets react to these medications in this way. No pharmaceutical company's products of this type contain advisories regarding the temporary elevation of blood glucose[7].

Heartworm [8][9] is a global problem, with areas on all continents except Antarctica affected and is a disease that is far easier to prevent than to cure. It can affect both cats and dogs[10][11][12][13].

Should your pet be affected by this, a talk with your vet is in order. Increasing insulin doses to counter this temporary situation may cause hypoglycemia once the systemic medication level has lowered.

The phenomenon also does not mean your pet has ceased to respond to the insulin you currently use. Since there are no formal label warnings, he/she needs to be aware that there are temporary side effects for these drugs which apply to some diabetics.
 
Great info. I know it does make them feel not the best for a day or two, but what other options do you have when you have a major tick and flea problem in the area. If i don't regularly do the frontline, then the fleas and ticks get so bad and out of control in the house. I hate them and i know the cats and dog hate them more. I guess what i should do is except an increase in BG for a couple of days and adjust the insulin? Next month i will try that and look for a pattern.

THANKS for catching this for me!

Copper is doing better today and in the blue's. Tonight is even better. Hope to try the lower dose tomorrow if his amps is not so high.
 
Lori,
You don't have to adjust the dose if you give the frontline. Just treat it like a "bounce" and ignore it. Just expect it so you'll know a probably reason why it happens for a couple of days.

I understand your pickle. Ticks and fleas are brutal here, and neither of my cats goes beyond the screened porch since I moved to this house. I just put the frontline plus on them yesterday.

Carl
 
And they say this year will be the worst in a while. I don't know how feasible this is for everyone, but since we have lazy cats and a privacy fence we actually treat the yard and not the cats. We get a few buggies still, but not bad and we just hit them with some flea shampoo if we feel they're bothered by them. I have actually noticed less ticks in the house since doing this, as they were riding the cats inside without biting them and being transferred to my bed. I've had Lyme once, I'd rather not repeat that, so this helps me when I'm outside as well....know it's probably not the most environmentally friendly thing to do. Ortho Bug-b-gon, you attach to your hose and spray.
 
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