Convenia....need proof for my vet

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Debra & CB (GA) & Gang

Debra & CB (GA) & Gang

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As you may remember my cats are going through some sort of viral outbreak (most likely a herpes type virus) and are passing around a secondary bacterial infection that presents as an upper respiratory infection. They are on famciclovir and doxy. And the cost is eating me alive, let alone that I have one cat that I simply find impossible to give liquid meds to! I can barely manage to get the antiviral pill down her throat. Anyway, I went and had a heart to heart talk this morning with my vet expressing my concerns with this one cat in particular, and what was her suggestion? Convenia! Nope, no thank you! I've read enough on here to know that I should be able to find some other solution to this problem. Please understand, Gypsy isn't a mean cat, she doesn't bite and scratch....on purpose. She is however absolutely terrified of being handled! She showed up here many years ago as a stray, and took up residence in my attic during the winter months. (The walls in my aren't all closed at the underside, so she'd climb inside the walls to reach the attic.) She's very sweet, loves to be petted, and has always been extremely healthy. This having to take medicine is just such a foreign experience to her that she totally freaks out!

I tried to explain to my vet my reasons for not wanting to have to give Gypsy Convenia, and I hate to say it, but I really feel like I hurt her feelings. She admitted that she has in the past already given it to "members of my herd" as she calls my cats, and I told her to please not do that again. Later this afternoon she called me at home, and we discussed my standings about Convenia again. She had researched VIN and couldn't find anything there talking about any adverse reactions reported to them. But since I'm standing firm on this, she is looking into changing from the liquid form of doxy to the capsuled kind. I'd still have to open the capsules and make a slurry out of it, but it'll be a lesser amount of liquid to get down Gypsy's throat, and hopefully I'll actually be able to get most of it into her.

Anyhoo, to make a sorta long story short (if that's ever possible!) I need YOUR help! Can anyone here find me links to "vet" papers or such, that report on problems associated with Convenia and cats? My vet has asked me to please print out for her anything that states adverse reactions to this medicine. And, since I'm not a vet, I don't know where to look for this sort of thing. I've told her of what happened recently to a member's cat here after it received a shot of Convenia, and I did say that the cat had hypertension and crf, and my vet then asked me that if this cat had these other serious conditions going on just how do we know it was the shot that made the situation so much worse. (I'm not saying that it didn't, but to be fair to my vet I gave her the information I had. I like my vet, I trust her and her choices, and she's entrusting me to aid her in her future antibiotic choices.)

I just really want to help my vet, she wants reported, documented proof.......help! Thanks!
 
debra, maybe she can search VIN for dr lisa's name? she has posted on vin before because she treated a cat with a bad reaction to convenia. i think her last name is pierson but you can check catinfo.org for her name.


convenia has its uses, one of which is for skin infections, so i wouldn't unnecessarily count it out. i'd just always look for an alternative first. cats that are harder to pill or give meds to may well benefit from convenia. the problem is that if they have a bad reaction to it, it is expensive to treat and could last as long as 65 days after the convenia is given.
 
I don't know what type of search my vet did, other than she said that she searched VIN. And I agree, I'm sure that there are certain situations where using Convenia is the best approach, for both the cat and the owner. I'm realistic, I do know that there is no such thing as a "safe" medicine...even something as simple as aspirin can kill a person (I'm highly allergic to aspirin!). But, for my herd, I would like alternatives whenever possible. Gypsy is supposed to be taking 3 ccs bid of doxy, and to be honest, I'm lucky if I manage to get half of that into her. When I suggested baytril or zeniquin, my vet said flat out no to baytril because of the possible blindness side effect from it, and since zeniquin is within the same family, no to it. So we're down to either doxy in capsule form, opened and mixed into a slurry and dosed per cat, Or azithromax (sp?) in pill form, crushed into a powder, mixed into a slurry, and dosed per cat.
 
I gave vet the info from Dr. Lisa's thread, and she was quite interested. She also said she had never used it in cats and never planned to because any a/b that stayed in the body for 2 weeks was too dangerous - she was thinking adverse reactions, allergies, etc. Her thought was that it would overwhelm the system, with no way of "getting it out". After reading that thread, she is more convinced than ever not to use it.
 
Debra, I can't help you with info about convenia, but I do have another idea for you. You could have the doxy (or azithromycin) compounded. See if there is a compounding pharmacy near you, or ask your vet if they use a compounding pharmacy. They can take the antibiotic and put it into a form that your cat will like to take. I did that with Azithromycin, Tinkles is on a 6 week course for a URI. He takes it willingly now...it's in an oil-based chicken flavored liquid and he opens right up and lets me quirt it into his mouth. It was also cheaper, and I don't have to refill it every 10 days like the nasty cherry flavored liquid! They can make it into chews, liquid or tiny little capsules...and there may be other options. Look into it! It could save you money AND make your life easier.

If there is more than one pharmacy near you that does compounding, compare prices....they do vary widely. One pharmacy charged $80 and another $35 for the exact same thing. If there isn't one local, there are big ones that do mail order...Wedgewood is one in NY or NJ, I think.

Are you using l-lysine? That might help fight the virus too, if it's herpes.
 
I would rather use Baytril oral or Zeniquin rather than Convenia. I have used Baytril many times for various cats and Have used Zeniquin once. Zeniquin is nice because the pills are very small compared to the Baytril tablets. When I research Baytril a couple a weeks ago the problem with Baytril seems to be with using the injectable in cats.
 
HI Debra

The info on cats and Convenia is anecdotal so you won't be able to find published, peer-reviewed research. If your vet searches on Convenia and anemia on VIN she might find something.

If your vet feels clindamycin might be an appropriate antibiotic, you can get injectable clindamycin and give it SQ. Not sure what the cost would be (I dont' remember). We did this for a cat with toxoplasmosis who needed to be on clinda for weeks and couldn't bear the taste of it orally.
 
Debra & CB (GA) & Gang said:
I don't know what type of search my vet did, other than she said that she searched VIN.
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As written privately, searching 'convenia anemia' will bring up my post as well as others on VIN.

And....also as written privately, I think that you would pretty much have to hold a gun to my head to get me to use Convenia for any cat in my care.

People also often forget how palatable clavamox tabs are when crushed and mixed with food.
 
I don't know if this is useful information or not for you, but Greenies makes a new pill pocket (roasted duck and pea allergy formula) that is diabetic safe. My cats find them more delicious than any of their regular treats, and they seem to strongly cover the smell/taste of some pills that are really despised by my cats--ones that I couldn't hide in tuna or chicken, or crush and mix in their food. They had no effect on Bandit's BG at all.

http://www.petfooddirect.com/Produc...asted-Duck-and-Pea-Allergy-Formula-Cat-Treats
 
Julia, thanks for the reminder.

I had one of my cats on clavamox a few months ago and he ate the pill very readily in a Pill Pocket.

If a cat does not like Pill Pockets, roll the PP in FortiFlora. Usually works like a charm.

I love FortiFlora and think that it belongs in all houses with cats.
 
Checkers has been getting Convenia Injections at Cornell Vet Hospital. She had all of her teeth removed and laser debridement in the back of her mouth. She was in severe pain before the surgery, and naturally, after the surgery. She had to have more surgery yesterday. The poor girl has been getting 3 different meds put into her mouth each day, and that has been a struggle. Without Convenia, that would be four. The dental specialist at Cornell is one of the most caring, dedicated vets I have ever met. She and her staff have treated Checkers as if she was a member of their family. Checkers, who was feral, and still exhibits feral behavior, loves this vet. When she hears her voice, she swings around in the carrier to look for her.

I don't believe Dr. R. would give Checkers anything that could hurt her. We will be taking Checkers to see her again next week, and I hope I remember to ask her about Convenia.
 
cat and sweet max said:
I don't believe Dr. R. would give Checkers anything that could hurt her.
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I know that you really don't mean that as naively as it sounds because that is what gets us all into trouble....blind faith - in both human and animal doctors - and not doing our own homework and decision-making.

Everyone has to make choices and weigh things out given the circumstances but I will continue to say that this drug is being over-used and blatantly abused when there are often other options.

Also, cephalosporins (Convenia, etc.) are definitely not the best antibiotic choices for the bugs that reside in the oral cavity. A VIN search on the Dental board shows that 1) antibiotics are rarely needed in any dental situation and are over-used and abused...and 2) Convenia is not a good choice for issues involving the oral cavity.

One of the boarded dentists spoke out pretty strongly about how much he "hates" the name of this drug because it is leading to so many people using it out of convenience.

The bottom line....have you tried a more appropriate and SAFER drug like clavamox in Pill Pockets or crushed in food? I have yet to have a patient refuse to eat clavamox in one of these ways. Unless you have tried these methods, you can't convince me that your cat is not being put in an unnecessary risky position....by using a drug that is not even designed to combat oral bugs.....
 
Lisa dvm said:
The bottom line....have you tried a more appropriate and SAFER drug like clavamox in Pill Pockets or crushed in food?
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Dr Lisa, injectable clindamycin is also an option, right? Plus very appropriate for oral cavity bugs?
 
WCF and Meowzi said:
Dr Lisa, injectable clindamycin is also an option, right? Plus very appropriate for oral cavity bugs?
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Yes, and I almost wrote that but figured that I would get flack because of the feral issue. But that said, even if I had an 'indoor feral' I am pretty sure that I could manage to get to them in order to give an injection. However, if a cat is really...really hard to handle or the owner just can't get it done, then clavamox as I mentioned would be the best.

In addition to my gripe about Convenia in general, the boarded dentists on VIN speak out day in and day out about how cats do NOT normally need antibiotics post-dentals anyway!! Even when extractions have been done. And then to pick and antibiotic like Convenia....makes them (and me) crazy.
 
cat and sweet max said:
Checkers has been getting Convenia Injections at Cornell Vet Hospital.
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Opinions at Cornell on different meds for cats definitely changes depending on what doctor you have there. I know some doctors there that do not recommend Convenia, and some that do. The same goes for vets throughout town.
 
Lisa dvm said:
And then to pick and antibiotic like Convenia....makes them (and me) crazy.
Click to expand...

Also keep in mind that even IF there is a legitimate reason to use an antibiotic post dental, you would not want to be using one for the many weeks (months) that Convenia stays in the body.

And another issue.....just because something is being done in an 'ivory tower' ...aka...university setting....this does not mean that it is the best medical practice possible. I have seen some very illogical and low quality...lack-of-common-sense .....medicine being practiced in university settings.
 
humans either. many dentists/periodontists do not recommend antibiotics after even pretty awful oral surgery. (i just went thru this last month with a lot of badly infected bone!)

many of us are here at fdmb now because we had blind faith in our vets and they let us down. i loved my vet for 13 years, as did all my kitties, but two major major strikes out and i double check everything now. vets are human, they do make mistakes, and they can't be expected to know everything. same with us, but an educated consumer increases his/her cat's odds.

big problem is vets who inject convenia without even asking or telling the client. big, big problem. that happened to us.
 
I agree that the Cornell Ivory Tower isn't perfect. I wasn't impressed in Max's early days of diabetic treatment. My vet had started Max out on about 4 units of "N" bid, and increased it quickly. I kept telling the vet that it seemed like his PS BGs were getting higher and higher. He gave me the "I've been a vet for years" speech. I made an appt at Cornell with a specialist because it didn't seem right. They agreed with my vet, and I think he was up to around 9 units bid!!

Thankfully, I had found this board, and listened intently to their loving guidance. The people here saved Max's life.

We will definitely be asking questions about Convenia.

I am confused about one thing though. My cats with Stomatitis were given Clindamycin every day. And when any of DD's or my pets had dentals, they were given antibiotics. None of it helped? What about monthloy pulse dosing?

Hugs and Healing,

Cat, Sweet Max, and gang
 
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