Considering switching Musette off lantus, Thoughs please

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MommaOfMuse

Member Since 2010
Hey all I thought I would ask the experts on this one. Musette is getting some very wild swings in BGs since she has been with me, well actually before she got her, and I'm really beginning to believe that Lantus may just not be the insulin for her.

So if you would be so kind as to look at her spreadsheet and give me your thoughts and input if you think she would be better off on Levermir, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,
Mel, Maxwell, Musette and The Fur Gang
 
Hi Mel and beautiful Musette,
I will defer to the more experienced Lev users, but I just took a look at her ss and wonder if she would benefit from reducing to .25?

From my understanding, Lev is even more gentle than Lantus, so it may be worth a try if she doesn't level out.

All the best!
Marcy & Klinger
 
Hi Mel,
All the pinks and reds she has following greens are indicative of rebounds.

Read this from the pet diabetes wiki for a great explanation of rebound on longer acting insulins: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Rebound
My first recommendation is learn how to dose in drops rather than quarter units, we have excellent pictures from posts here on how to use the drop method.

explanation: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15637#p156967
pictures: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=34424#p360982

Second, lower the dose to no more than .2U and see if her cycles stabilize. We see similar looking spreadsheets here on Lev and our recommendation in these cases is always lower the dose. It gets results. You cannot use the Tilly method unless you first begin at a dose below the optimum dose. Otherwise it's like spitting in the wind.

So I would not recommend a switch to Levemir. You will have the exact same thing happen until you realize it's the dose, not the insulin, which isn't working.
 
Vicki,

THANK YOU!!! That is the best explaination that ANYONE has given me so far! And yes, I was alredy thinking she needed less not more, but all the input I have gotten so far has been to go up, up gets me nowhere expect a bouncin cat.

Anybody care if a Lantus user comes over here to post? Since this is the first place I have gotten any real advice.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Hi, Mel. I opened Max's SS first and was ready to say "She doesn't need insulin!", lol.

Yeah, I vote for a dose reduction also. If you drop to .2u or. 25u, that may very well be below the optimal dose. That is ok because it is easier to raise to the right dose than decrease to it (I think). To me, bounces from numbers below 60 into the 300-400s are rebound bounces, not "first low in a long time and I'm not used to it" bounces. And that PS of 38? Not where you want her to be. I know they have a different mind set about lows over on the lantus ISG, but over here we really don't like to shoot so high a dose that they end up routinely low enough that MC food has to be fed.

You will be making very small dose changes now - in amounts of .1u, or even .05u. If you need help with that there is a link to micro dosing using the drop method in the lev 101 sticky toward the bottom.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents - plus you are welcome to post here as long as you understand that most of us have lev experience and not much lantus experience. That really shouldn't matter. I mean, plenty of lev users post on the lantus site. Anyone should be able to post wherever they feel comfortable.
 
Ditto to what Sheila said.

Glad something makes sense to you. That's what we're about, helping people understand how their insulin reacts in their cat. So yeah, we'd like to help you help Musette. You're more than welcome.

Isn't Musette the DCIN adoptee? She's actually doing pretty well despite the rebounds. Lantus will work for her.
 
Thank you for the input, I did reduce her dose tonight, afterall it couldn't hurt, and if it doesn't work I'm no worse off than I was to begin with. If it does work then I'm going to have a happier cat, and that is all I really want, what is best for Musette.

And I will probably be flamed for this again, but if you don't mind me being over here, then this is where I would like to post. And the added benefit for me at least is this way her Auntie Marcy can keep up with her easier too. Since if it wasn't for Marcy & Craig picking her up in Denver and driving 6 hours round trip she wouldn't be cuddling with us at night right now. :-D

I promise to be a good kid and make sure folks over here know she is a Lantus cat not a Levermir cat, but I truly believe that here is where I will be more comfortable.

Thanks again for your input,
Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Yes Musette is a DCIN adoptee as was Maxwell. Musette is named in honor of my first sugarcat Muse who passed shortly after we finally found a vet that would test her for diabetes, unfortunately for Muse it was too late to save her. Both Muse and Musette are himalayans and since Musette's original name was Angel, and Muse is an angel now, and we already have an Angel. It only made sense to call this Angel, Musette. (Little Muse) as Musette is a more petite and moonlit version of Muse.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette and The Fur Gang.
 
Good luck with the dose reduction. I think it's great to have you post over here. We can all learn from one another.
Give some chin scritches to Musette from Auntie Marcy :lol: cat_pet_icon
It was our pleasure to transport Musette to her furever home. She's a special kitty and touched our hearts during the three hour ride to meet you and Jon.
 
Mel, if you can do us a favor and publish a profile on Musette including what you know of her history, that would be awesome. You can do it as a Google doc and include link in your signature. I believe the instructions are in the tech forum.
 
Vicki,

Not a problem at all. I will get it set up at some point today. I actually know quite a bit about her past history since I have all her past vet records, or at least as mcuh as she was seen by vets in her past. It isn't a pretty tale, but then again she wouldn't be my cat, and in the sorry shape she is in, if she had been in a home that cared that much for her. <sigh>

Mel
 
MommaOfMuse said:
Vicki,

Not a problem at all. I will get it set up at some point today. I actually know quite a bit about her past history since I have all her past vet records, or at least as mcuh as she was seen by vets in her past. It isn't a pretty tale, but then again she wouldn't be my cat, and in the sorry shape she is in, if she had been in a home that cared that much for her. <sigh>

Mel

Oh, I haven't even heard details and I already feel sad for her experience. I assume she's a purebred?
 
As far as I can tell from her records yes, she is a purebred since her past records lists her as a blue-cream tortie point Himalayan and gives an exact birthdate for her of Oct 25th 1999. Now knowing what I know about the vets around here regardless of how typey a cat or dog may look they don't list a specific breed or if they do it usually says something along the like of Siamese mix. And with that exact birthdate and that they list her as Himalayan..plus looking at her, I'm assuming she is purebred.

She was dxed DKA in the same breath as diabetic back in March. Which her owner got her through then in June decided to have her pts after being chewed out several times by her vet for not giving insulin on a regular bases, not changing her diet and as far as I can tell not either testing her at home or bringing her in for curves. It was her vet that finally said either treat her correctly or put her down to end her suffering. She was declawed and spayed in 2002, then apparently tossed outside because the other cat in the household would bully her...I would love to meet this cat, as at 6lbs Ms. Musette stands her ground with some of my 16 and 18 pounders. She will even slap at me if I don't produce the treat fast enough for her liking after her tests...lol. Absolutely fearless she is. Walked up to our 80lb drooler the other day and hissed at him and took a swipe because he was between her and the food dish. So apparently it is legal to keep tigers in Virginia because I'm thinking that is the only cat I know of that could bully her.. :lol:

When she was surrendered she had an untreated UTI, dehydrated, matted and had slight neuropathy. So now nekkid, UTI gone, well hydrated and back to walking on her tippy toes. All that is left is to get some weight on her and get her numbers under control and then watch out Fur Gang, there is a new Queen in the Castle! As I have a feeling it won't be long and she will rule the house with a velvet paw. She has already commandered DH's pillow at night, beaten the stuffing out of Lady Jane Grey for attempting to sleep on HER pillow and has the dog scared of her.

Mel,Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
She sounds like quite a character. She also sounds like she will be a real beauty when her fur grows back in. Would love to see a photo? Can you link one in a post?

Very glad she was surrendered and NOT PTS by the vet. Some people should not be allowed to have pets - or kids.
 
Just posted you guys several pictures of her on a separate thread...lol

And yes, she is quite a character, Its going to fun watching her bloom as she gets better and her fur grows back in.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang.
 
She has already commandered DH's pillow at night, beaten the stuffing out of Lady Jane Grey for attempting to sleep on HER pillow and has the dog scared of her.
I just read that to Craig and he said "that shy little kitty?" :lol:
It sounds like she's well settled in with her new family.
 
Well she hasn't met the entire family yet, as she still hasn't ventured out to the main part of the house YET! But she has full rein and control of the bedroom. Only ones in there are Maxwell, Lady Jane Grey and the drooler at night. As they are the only ones who actually sleep at night. Plus I want her where I can find her at test and shot times right now. Once we get her stabilized and into the routine then I'll work on the introductions to the rest of the crew. Even Maxwell and Lady Jane aren't sure about the rest of the gang yet, they will come out if I carry them over the waiting gang to the livingroom to hang out while I study or watch TV, but want right back into the bedroom when Mom goes in.

And Myrrdin aka The Sh*tten is more than most of the cats can tolerate for long periods of time...lol. He really wants to be everyone's friend he just goes about it all the wrong ways...Like leaping out at them to bite them on the tail, or leaping on their heads to introduce himself. He's the only baby boy and his idea of play and the little girls is entirely different. And well the older boys just give him that "annoying baby brother look" before boxing him across the room. :lol:

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
I love your cats' names - Lady Jane Grey, Myrrdin....aka the Sh*tten, LOL

Do you like Old English, perhaps?

As you can tell, we like chit chat around here. Helps us get to know one another and their cats!
 
Vicki,

Actually I love languages and mythology. So let me give you the full run down of 'The Fur Gang'

The original two members who we lost both last year so are my Angels, were Muse (hence the account name) who was also a purebred Himalayan and a Katrina survivor before I adopted her. Her pedigree name was Freya's Frost Princess and was being called Frosty which just didn't fit her, so as a play on her voice I named her Muse. This is who Musette is named for (long story behind that one). And then came Onyx Midnight Voodoo a pure black Maine Coon that some people where giving away because he was being retired from breeding. So that was my Onyx.

Then shortly after my DH and I got together, his daughter gave me a lynx point siamese mix kitten after she rescues him and his sister from a pit bull attack, Since she had named the little girl Isis, I named the male Amon Ra. Who is now known by various name..Ra ra, Ra rum etc.

Then we got a neighborhood cat we called Kali because she was seriously feral, only cat I have ever seen take apart a hav-a-heart trap. She ended up one day marching in our house to take up residency in our bedroom closet and promptly presented us with 3 kittens, two white and a solid gray. The two white ones ended up to be one flame point and one blue point siamese mix...the Flame who we at the time called Phoenix and the Blue was known as Baby Blue. We found homes for all but Baby Blue.
Baby blue is still here to this day although through many mutations of his name he is now just Bert (went from Bebe to Be-bert to Bert). Phoenix went to live with some ex-friends of ours because they wanted a second cat to keep their current cat Patches company. Little did we know at the time we sent him into a home of domestic violence. So when they finally split up they ask us to keep Patches and now named Casper for a month while they tried to work things out...Well...Patches and Casper are still here, and after some of the many things I later learned happened to them. They would have to kill me to get them back.

Then to join the family was Tre'Vona and her sister Saphira (later renamed Sophia) Tre'Vona's name means Sister to Many and here that fits her perfectly, Sophia got her name because she wouldn't answer to Saphira. but did answere to Sophia. They were rescued from a feral colony by a nice lady where my husband worked at the time, but she couldn't afford to keep them but they were a mess when we got them, basically starving and wild as march hairs. Both had mild heart problems from being sick as kittens. They are aby/egyptian mau crosses. Tre'Vona looks ever bit the Aby while her sister is a spitting image of the cat in Cat Woman.

Next up would be the drooler King Tut or King for short. His best buddy is Amon Ra so King Tut just seemed to fit, and he has black eye liner. He came from an owner that was beating him for being a puppy and doing what puppies do, chewing on stuff and pooping and peeing on the floor. He was even kicked down stairs. So now he is here, thinks he is an 80 lb cat and that all cats should just love him as much as he loves them. He plays with catnip toys, tries to use the litter box etc. But woe be it to the person that threatens one of his kitties or beans. He will rip you limb from limb. He is as best we can tell, Chow Chow, GSD, and Lab, with some kind of wet mouth breed...I'm thinking maybe Mastiff. And now our neighbors kids are insane enough to tease him and throw rocks at him. Not a good plan if he ever breaks his chain, but they have been warned.

Then we tried to save a little yellow kitten that DH found in at a trailer park where he worked, but the poor little guy was just too far gone and didn't make it until the vet opened here on Monday, but King was heartbroken as he had laid with that kitten for 3 days and when it finally passed King went on a hunger strike. About 3 days later I was taking trash out at work and heard a mew, looked in the trash dumpster and there was a kitten about 3 weeks old, attacking a pizza crust with all her might. She was dirty, matted and limping. So I go back into work, get a box and a towel, climb in the dumpster, get shredded and bitten but finally get my hands on her. Go her home, and cleaned up to realize the reason for the limp was someone had burned her paw pads with a cigarette, before tosing her out like trash. King was over joyed to have HIS kitten. While trying to decide what to name her the song Angel Eyes came on the radio. So she is our Angel. She is part Maine Coon.

Then shortly after we lost Muse, friends called and they manage a feral colony and one of their queens had given birth in a snow storm, all the kittens where still born, but since they found them quickly (they had been watching this queen pretty closely) they had scooped up the kits, rushed them inside, and saved the litter of 6 with a blow dryer and rubbing them. The only problem was now the kits were big enough to be weaned two were seriously ill with URIs. They couldn't keep these two inside as their blind cat was having problems with the active youngsters, and didn't want to return them to the feral colony sick. So knowing we had just lost Muse they asked if we wanted two kittens. Enter Myrrdin and Duvessa. Myrrdin is Irish for Merlin, and Duvessa is Irish for "Dark Beauty" Myrrdin looks just like my Merlin (GA) from when I was in High School and Duvessa has an black face, both are tuxes.

The comes Maxwell, who was a DCIN adoptee he is also a Katrina survivor, spent two years in a sanctuary then was adopted by a nice elderly lady, but she got dementia and he got diabetes, She went to a nursing home and he went to a vet to die. Venita got ahold of me, got ahold of DH, we both said yes and Claudia pulled him and sent him here....two weeks later he was OTJ and has never looked back.

Then this winter Lady Jane Grey enter the family after her family dumped her out in 22 degree below weather and planned on leaving her behind when they moved. As luck would have it the neighbor's dog treed her in one of our trees and when I went to return her home ( I had seen her in a window of the house across the alley when walking King) the boyfriend let slip her fate. So I insisted that they say their good-byes to her, pack up her things and bring her back to me before they moved. 4 days later she joined the family. Her original name was Fizzgig...silly name for a kitty. So she is Lady because she is a purrfect prim and proper lady, Jane, in honor of Janeway, and Janie on this board to give her the blessings of long life, and grey because of her coloring. Also named for the English Queen..Lady Jane Grey the nine day queen...just our Lady Jane Grey is the 9-lives queen...lol

So there you have it, the stories of how we became a family of 12 cats (6 females, 6 males) and one large species confused drooler..lol

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang.
 
What a huge heart you have! Loved reading about every one of them. King is the best kind of dog to have around cats, their protector. And each name has its own story too. I thought Myrrdin meant Merlin, but couldn't place the origin. And Lady Jane Grey, the 9 day queen, now I remember that. Saw the movie actually.

I notice Maine Coon mentioned a couple times - how many long haired cats do you have now - at least 3 right? I love long haired cats, but Gandalf is my only one. The other 3 are short haired tabbies.
 
That's a great story - I hope you copy it out and save it to your computer. I love all the names. The way you name them reminds me of how I name mine - they each have a reasoning behind them.

And you and your dh have big , soft hearts!
 
We have 4 longhairs....Angel, Lady Jane Grey, Maxwell, & Musette as soon as she has hair again...lol.

I adore the long hairs, and well the meezers, so I always thought Himmies were the perfect cat. I get the long hair with the siamese markings.

Right now we have 3 siamese mixes. Bert, Casper, Amon Ra and then the 4 long hairs. The rest are short hairs.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
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