Confused with numbers

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Sootyca

Sootyca

Member Since 2016
Could anyone have a look at Sky's spreadsheet and see if you have any thoughts as I'm confused by what is happening.

Sat/Sunday/Monday last week/this week she was getting nice numbers. She was quite lethargic and didn't really eat at tea time so had no insulin at night. Her numbers in the morning didn't reflect any lack of insulin.

She went to the vet on Tuesday morning as her pupils were very dilated. We had a lengthy discussion about her diabetes and food intake and the vet thought she could be going into remission so to stop the insulin. She was fine for 36 hours without insulin, at 48 hours (2 days) her numbers had increased slightly. At 60 hours (2.5days) they had really increased and at 72hours (3 days) were at the point where I had to give her insulin again.

I have tested now and have a 7.8 - Almost 20 points lower than this morning.

I haven't a clue what is going on and am getting really confused as to what to inject - she must need something but what I give her always seems to be too much. She isn't having anything tonight. The vet isn't open until Monday to ask them about dosing.

Would it harm her to have her caninsulin once a day or less than that?
 
I see that you stick to whole units of insulin. Why not try giving 0.5 u to see what happens? Monitor of course. You probably have U40 syringes but they don't necessarily have half unit marks. You can eyeball half a unit fairly easily. From what I've learned, cats metabolize insulin quickly so are better off getting it every 12 hours.
 
I had been given her a 0.5 the best I could but I will get some different syringes so I can be sure that she is getting that. She had a 1 unit dose this morning as she was so high - from the last curve I did for her on a 1 unit I didn't expect her numbers to go down as much as they have. Just when I think I am understanding the numbers more something happens to confuse me more!
 
Sootyca said:
I had been given her a 0.5 the best I could but I will get some different syringes so I can be sure that she is getting that. She had a 1 unit dose this morning as she was so high - from the last curve I did for her on a 1 unit I didn't expect her numbers to go down as much as they have. Just when I think I am understanding the numbers more something happens to confuse me more!
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I missed seeing those 0.5 u doses on your SS. Many of us use U100 syringes for our U40 insulin. There's a conversion table to use that tells you exactly how much to draw up in a U100 syringe to get your desired U40 dose. The U100s allow dosing changes in small fractions like 0.2, 0.4, 0.6 and 0.8 units. Here's the table: http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm
You can get U100 syringes online or at a human pharmacy. You want the type with half unit marks to allow these fractions I've listed.
 
I adjust doses according to Angel's BG, my syringes are U40 so I do the best I can with them. If you can, get the vet to change the insulin over to prozinc, it has much better results and as far as I know should not produce such a change in numbers. If you have a look at Angel's 2 spreadsheets you can see how he improved after starting prozinc on 16/7/14. x
 
Sky has done really well on caninsulin - combined with applaws and B12 tablet but maybe she is too responsive to the caninsulin.

I think I will have a phone round of vets in the area to see if any of them have any vet with specific interest in diabetes care.

I've managed to persuade my sister to try and learn how to blood test her so she should be safer when I go away :)
 
What is the difference between prozinc and caninsulin? She did seem to be doing okay on it but she was so much brighter and happier the 2 days she did without it last week so maybe it is to harsh?
 
Typically ProZinc last about 12 hour in cats while Vetsulin only lasts 8-10 hours. Thus with ProZinc you can maintain a lower aver BG over the day/night.
Also, ProZinc is a mixture of human Recombinant DNA origin insulin with protomine zinc which extends it duration.
Vetsulin is purified porcine insulin (35% amorphous and 65% crystalline) in a zinc suspension)
 
Sootyca said:
She did seem to be doing okay on it but she was so much brighter and happier the 2 days she did without it last week so maybe it is to harsh?
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Some insulins disagree with some cats.

I've been looking at Sky's spreadsheet and I wonder whether switching to a gentler insulin which doesn't produce such big drops might be better for her? Today's numbers look like a possible bounce after she went from 27.1 down to 7.9 on yesterday's AM cycle.

When Saoirse was treated with Caninsulin she didn't quite make it into remission but it became impossible to give her a small enough, safe dose of Caninsulin with which to continue her treatment. I also observed that she would feel better in herself when the Caninsulin was wearing off - very much like you've described Sky's behaviour when not receiving Caninsulin. I was able to identify that although Caninsulin was helping to lower Saoirse's BG levels it was making her feel really unwell. I was able to get Saoirse switched to Lantus (Prozinc hadn't been approved in the UK at the time so there was a bit more flexibility in what the vet could prescribe under cascade rules at that time). I got 'my cat' back! She was much happier in herself on the different insulin and because it didn't have such a harsh action I was able to continue her insulin treatment without the risk of tanking her BG levels (which is what would have happened with only microdoses of Caninsulin). I suggest you let your vet know about the difference in clinical signs on and off Caninsulin; s/he may be able to switch Sky to an insulin which better agrees with her system. (BTW other members have reported similar adverse reactions to Caninsulin/Vetsulin in their cats, and whose cats did better on a different insulin.)


Mogs
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I'm going to have a word with them tomorrow see if they will switch her. Her numbers tonight are identical to this morning so the Caninsulin obviously works for her, and seemingly lasts the 12 hours, but she was definitely more herself when not on it.

Thanks everyone :)
 
We're probably going to switch sky to prozinc. The vets just want to steal more blood from her and take her blood pressure to check if there is anything underlying that has been missed but if not we will switch. Hopefully she will respond okay to the change.
 
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