Conflicts w/vet- Re: meter & dose

Status
Not open for further replies.
Abby Normal

Abby Normal

Member Since 2017
Hello everyone,
My cat Molly and I are new here. Sorry I haven't filled out my full profile yet. Soon.

Molly is 14, newly diagnosed, (with this sites help) we are ready to start first injection, we have everything we need... EXCEPT a vet office I'm comfortable with.

Her 2 glucose readings so far:
  • 5/10 (406) Before changing food to only wet and taken at vet office via senior blood panel.
  • 5/31 (260) Post food change, before breakfast, via my Relion confirm at vet office. (I was out of town for 2 weeks so we are only 4 days into food change)
Todays conflicts...
1) the vet does NOT agree with my glucose meter purchase cuz it wasn't Alphatrack.(therefore the reading wont be correct???). I SWEAR she said that "some" human meters were ok so I felt comfortable with purchasing the Relion Confirm based on many rec's. I left the vet feeling horrible, more stressed and with further delay in starting Molly's insulin.

Conflict #2 the vet precribed 2 units 2x/day.... to start! I will NOT be starting that high. I have chosen to follow guidelines on here.

These are 2 of numerous flags that have been raised at this office for me. I'd just leave but I signed a wellness plan contract and can't afford to pay that and another vet.

I guess my reason for posting is for confirmation and a virtual hug cuz it is really hard to handle when you dont think you can trust your vet and it's all on you. I have no support outside of this site.

Thanks for listening.
 
Abby Normal said:
Hello everyone,
My cat Molly and I are new here. Sorry I haven't filled out my full profile yet. Soon.

Molly is 14, newly diagnosed, (with this sites help) we are ready to start first injection, we have everything we need... EXCEPT a vet office I'm comfortable with.

Her 2 glucose readings so far:
  • 5/10 (406) Before changing food to only wet and taken at vet office via senior blood panel.
  • 5/31 (260) Post food change, before breakfast, via my Relion confirm at vet office. (I was out of town for 2 weeks so we are only 4 days into food change)
Todays conflicts...
1) the vet does NOT agree with my glucose meter purchase cuz it wasn't Alphatrack.(therefore the reading wont be correct???). I SWEAR she said that "some" human meters were ok so I felt comfortable with purchasing the Relion Confirm based on many rec's. I left the vet feeling horrible, more stressed and with further delay in starting Molly's insulin.

Conflict #2 the vet precribed 2 units 2x/day.... to start! I will NOT be starting that high. I have chosen to follow guidelines on here.

These are 2 of numerous flags that have been raised at this office for me. I'd just leave but I signed a wellness plan contract and can't afford to pay that and another vet.

I guess my reason for posting is for confirmation and a virtual hug cuz it is really hard to handle when you dont think you can trust your vet and it's all on you. I have no support outside of this site.

Thanks for listening.
Click to expand...
Your vet is correct that the numbers won't be the same as the vet... But the human meter will still tell you if it's high or low. On that front you will have to agree to disagree... OR get an Alphatrak and only use it for curves to appease the vet.

I totally agree with you on the second issue. It's not safe to start out with two units. Start with one assuring her you will gradually raise it to two over the next few weeks of it shows itself to not be enough.
 
Thank you for the feedback... Question..
If the numbers do not match and I should be using an Alphatrack why are human meters reccomended on this site and by others on line? I bought the Relion cuz the Alpha track was expensive, reccomendations on here and I have no funds.... which means I can't afford to buy an Alpha in addition to the Relion I can't take back.
 
You can use a human meter. The numbers are different because the reference points are different.
An Alphatrak can tell you if your Molly has low blood sugar (I think around a 90 reading? I don't use AlphaTrak). A human meter can also tell you if Molly has low blood sugar (around a 50 reading). Both numbers are correct, but they are on different scales. Same for the upper "normal" limits, and too high readings - they each have appropriate reference points, but they will be different from each other.

Think about it like this - a speed limit of 55 miles per hour might be posted. I could potentially be driving at 88 kilometers per hour. 88 is a much different number than 55, but I'd still be driving the correct speed! They are just different systems for measuring the same thing -- speed.
In this case, it's just two different ways of measuring blood glucose. Neither is correct or incorrect, they are just different.

If you use the charts off this site that are calibrated for human meters, and you are using a human meter, then you are doing it correctly.

Sorry your vet isn't willing to work with you, especially when it sounds like you are doing things right. Unfortunately, many vets are not well educated in feline diabetes. It's nothing against them, they could still be great vets - but they may not have had much exposure to the disease and the latest methods of treatment. After all, there are a LOT of diseases for them to keep up on for dogs and cats (and maybe other animals, as well).

How long does your wellness plan contract last? I'd suggest starting to research and interview new vets well before it ends so you don't end up trying to cram it into a short time and making a hasty decision.
Also, are there any other vets in the same clinic that you might be able to try instead while you are still under the contract?
 
First of all welcome to you and Mollie.

The problem you are facing with your vet is all too familiar. Human meters existed and were used by vets before pet meters even existed. Many vets still use human meters because pet meters are very expensive to buy and use. While a human meter will generally read lower than a pet meter, and there is no way to convert one meter's numbers to the other, knowing what the safe and optimal range of BG is, using a human meter will enable you to see how Mollie is doing and make decisions about dosing to keep her safe. Low numbers are low and high numbers are high no matter which meter you choose to use.

I'm with Janet, Kris and you on the dose. Starting at 1 unit would be the way to go.

Many if not most of us here do not consult our vets for daily diabetic care and many here have developed a nod and then do their own thing approach with their vets. So start off with a dose you are comfortable with. You need to be comfortable with the care you provide and being more conservative with dosing than your vet is recommending will keep Mollie safe.
 
Shenandoah said:
You can use a human meter. The numbers are different because the reference points are different.
An Alphatrak can tell you if your Molly has low blood sugar (I think around a 90 reading? I don't use AlphaTrak). A human meter can also tell you if Molly has low blood sugar (around a 50 reading). Both numbers are correct, but they are on different scales. Same for the upper "normal" limits, and too high readings - they each have appropriate reference points, but they will be different from each other.

Think about it like this - a speed limit of 55 miles per hour might be posted. I could potentially be driving at 88 kilometers per hour. 88 is a much different number than 55, but I'd still be driving the correct speed! They are just different systems for measuring the same thing -- speed.
In this case, it's just two different ways of measuring blood glucose. Neither is correct or incorrect, they are just different.

If you use the charts off this site that are calibrated for human meters, and you are using a human meter, then you are doing it correctly.

Sorry your vet isn't willing to work with you, especially when it sounds like you are doing things right. Unfortunately, many vets are not well educated in feline diabetes. It's nothing against them, they could still be great vets - but they may not have had much exposure to the disease and the latest methods of treatment. After all, there are a LOT of diseases for them to keep up on for dogs and cats (and maybe other animals, as well).

How long does your wellness plan contract last? I'd suggest starting to research and interview new vets well before it ends so you don't end up trying to cram it into a short time and making a hasty decision.
Also, are there any other vets in the same clinic that you might be able to try instead while you are still under the contract?
Click to expand...
Just one correction.... In alphatrak under 68 is too low.

I actually love my alphatrak meter, but it is expensive to use. If the cost became an issue I would switch. If course now that I'm only testing 4-5 times a month cost isn't an issue anymore. If I was still doing 5+ times a day I may have eventually switched.
 
I used a pet meter until the beginning of this year because that was what my vet recommended and I had no idea when my girl was diagnosed that I could use a human meter. I too love my AlphaTrak meter but the strips here in Canada are over double the cost of the strips I use in my human meter. I just refused to continue to be hostage to what I consider to be highway robbery for the pet meter strips. My vet looked at me like I had horns growing out of my head when I initially mentioned using a human meter. Fast forward a few months and my vet emailed me for human meter reference numbers for another client. Her philosophy is that while a pet meter is optimal and what she is used to, a human meter is a viable alternative and a 100 times better than no meter.
 
My vet actually suggested a human meter and never even brought up using a pet meter. That is what she used at home for her diabetic kitty.

We did disagree on dose and dose changes, I always advised her what I was doing and showed his spreadsheet, just so she knew. In the end, she couldn't argue with the results we achieved.

 
You are doing the right thing and your vet knows jack. I've come across sooooooo many vets who know almost nothing about treating Db that I pretty much don't trust any of them anymore. And they ALL overdose. I've gotten most of the cats Ive treated regulated on 1/2 U Lantus even only 1x per day--by not feeding at shot time if BG is high...letting that 1/2 U take effect before feeding--usually 2-3 h. Less is more. Vets don't know that though.
 
Martica and Fred said:
I've gotten most of the cats Ive treated regulated on 1/2 U Lantus even only 1x per day--by not feeding at shot time if BG is high...letting that 1/2 U take effect before feeding--usually 2-3 h.
Click to expand...

While that method may have worked well for you and your cats with Lantus, it would not be advisable for anyone particularly anyone new to feline diabetes to give insulin while intentionally withholding food till onset. This could potentially create a hypo situation especially for anyone using one of the faster acting insulins. We don't know what insulin has been prescribed for Mollie so I don't think it's prudent to be suggesting any "customized" dosing practices at this point in time.
 
Shenandoah said:
You can use a human meter. The numbers are different because the reference points are different.
An Alphatrak can tell you if your Molly has low blood sugar (I think around a 90 reading? I don't use AlphaTrak). A human meter can also tell you if Molly has low blood sugar (around a 50 reading). Both numbers are correct, but they are on different scales. Same for the upper "normal" limits, and too high readings - they each have appropriate reference points, but they will be different from each other.

Think about it like this - a speed limit of 55 miles per hour might be posted. I could potentially be driving at 88 kilometers per hour. 88 is a much different number than 55, but I'd still be driving the correct speed! They are just different systems for measuring the same thing -- speed.
In this case, it's just two different ways of measuring blood glucose. Neither is correct or incorrect, they are just different.

If you use the charts off this site that are calibrated for human meters, and you are using a human meter, then you are doing it correctly.

Sorry your vet isn't willing to work with you, especially when it sounds like you are doing things right. Unfortunately, many vets are not well educated in feline diabetes. It's nothing against them, they could still be great vets - but they may not have had much exposure to the disease and the latest methods of treatment. After all, there are a LOT of diseases for them to keep up on for dogs and cats (and maybe other animals, as well).

How long does your wellness plan contract last? I'd suggest starting to research and interview new vets well before it ends so you don't end up trying to cram it into a short time and making a hasty decision.
Also, are there any other vets in the same clinic that you might be able to try instead while you are still under the contract?
Click to expand...

Thank you for that explanation and refresher that there is a chart on here! I will look up her #'s so far on the chart.

I agree nutrition and disease are not always covered in their schooling as much as one might think. The vet was knowledgable on other stuff for sure. Not saying there was zero FD knowledge just not enough for my comfort level or maybe I should say not all of what the vet said was in line with the info I'm finding on the internet... specifically on sites that were recommended by that office so THAT made me feel really uncomfortable.

The wellness plan is for one year but after multiple conflicts at this office I left so frustrated and scared $%&#less yesterday that I decided to go with my gut instinct, got out my credit card I really shouldn't be using again and took her to a vet office closer to my house for a 2nd opinion.

The new vet was awesome and seemed very aligned with what I have read on here and how I feel. =) The peace of mind is worth more than paying my personal medical bills, the money I dont have, paying 2x for a vet and constantly living in fear that I'm gonna accidentally kill my cat cuz I don't know if I can trust what I'm being told to do. My cats are more important to me.

After a 255 reading yesterday afternoon the new vet said she didn't feel comfortable starting insulin yet. We are testing every 2 hours today and possibly the next day or 2.

She said Molly is def not critical and currently it is managable with only diet change during this process. She wants to see what Molly's body does, especially with more days after diet change. (only 5 so far and already a positive change in glucose levels)
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
First of all welcome to you and Mollie.

The problem you are facing with your vet is all too familiar. Human meters existed and were used by vets before pet meters even existed. Many vets still use human meters because pet meters are very expensive to buy and use. While a human meter will generally read lower than a pet meter, and there is no way to convert one meter's numbers to the other, knowing what the safe and optimal range of BG is, using a human meter will enable you to see how Mollie is doing and make decisions about dosing to keep her safe. Low numbers are low and high numbers are high no matter which meter you choose to use.

I'm with Janet, Kris and you on the dose. Starting at 1 unit would be the way to go.

Many if not most of us here do not consult our vets for daily diabetic care and many here have developed a nod and then do their own thing approach with their vets. So start off with a dose you are comfortable with. You need to be comfortable with the care you provide and being more conservative with dosing than your vet is recommending will keep Mollie safe.
Click to expand...

Thank you for all the info. =) Appeciated.
 
Abby Normal said:
Thank you for that explanation and refresher that there is a chart on here! I will look up her #'s so far on the chart.

I agree nutrition and disease are not always covered in their schooling as much as one might think. The vet was knowledgable on other stuff for sure. Not saying there was zero FD knowledge just not enough for my comfort level or maybe I should say not all of what the vet said was in line with the info I'm finding on the internet... specifically on sites that were recommended by that office so THAT made me feel really uncomfortable.

The wellness plan is for one year but after multiple conflicts at this office I left so frustrated and scared $%&#less yesterday that I decided to go with my gut instinct, got out my credit card I really shouldn't be using again and took her to a vet office closer to my house for a 2nd opinion.

The new vet was awesome and seemed very aligned with what I have read on here and how I feel. =) The peace of mind is worth more than paying my personal medical bills, the money I dont have, paying 2x for a vet and constantly living in fear that I'm gonna accidentally kill my cat cuz I don't know if I can trust what I'm being told to do. My cats are more important to me.

After a 255 reading yesterday afternoon the new vet said she didn't feel comfortable starting insulin yet. We are testing every 2 hours today and possibly the next day or 2.

She said Molly is def not critical and currently it is managable with only diet change during this process. She wants to see what Molly's body does, especially with more days after diet change. (only 5 so far and already a positive change in glucose levels)
Click to expand...
I'm glad you found a vet who seems willing to work with you.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
I used a pet meter until the beginning of this year because that was what my vet recommended and I had no idea when my girl was diagnosed that I could use a human meter. I too love my AlphaTrak meter but the strips here in Canada are over double the cost of the strips I use in my human meter. I just refused to continue to be hostage to what I consider to be highway robbery for the pet meter strips. My vet looked at me like I had horns growing out of my head when I initially mentioned using a human meter. Fast forward a few months and my vet emailed me for human meter reference numbers for another client. Her philosophy is that while a pet meter is optimal and what she is used to, a human meter is a viable alternative and a 100 times better than no meter.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much! I have gotten that look too on a different topic. Friends looked at me like I just told them I had an alien in my back yard who could heal their cat with glowing juju from their planet. lol. =)
 
Tracey&Jones said:
My vet actually suggested a human meter and never even brought up using a pet meter. That is what she used at home for her diabetic kitty.

We did disagree on dose and dose changes, I always advised her what I was doing and showed his spreadsheet, just so she knew. In the end, she couldn't argue with the results we achieved.
Click to expand...

Awesome! Thank you. My new vet (as of yesterday) said she just wanted a comparrison between the AT there and my meter each time I brought her into the office but my at home testing should be consistent by always using the same machine. =) No issues with my choice.
 
Abby Normal said:
Thank you for that explanation and refresher that there is a chart on here! I will look up her #'s so far on the chart.

I agree nutrition and disease are not always covered in their schooling as much as one might think. The vet was knowledgable on other stuff for sure. Not saying there was zero FD knowledge just not enough for my comfort level or maybe I should say not all of what the vet said was in line with the info I'm finding on the internet... specifically on sites that were recommended by that office so THAT made me feel really uncomfortable.

The wellness plan is for one year but after multiple conflicts at this office I left so frustrated and scared $%&#less yesterday that I decided to go with my gut instinct, got out my credit card I really shouldn't be using again and took her to a vet office closer to my house for a 2nd opinion.

The new vet was awesome and seemed very aligned with what I have read on here and how I feel. =) The peace of mind is worth more than paying my personal medical bills, the money I dont have, paying 2x for a vet and constantly living in fear that I'm gonna accidentally kill my cat cuz I don't know if I can trust what I'm being told to do. My cats are more important to me.

After a 255 reading yesterday afternoon the new vet said she didn't feel comfortable starting insulin yet. We are testing every 2 hours today and possibly the next day or 2.

She said Molly is def not critical and currently it is managable with only diet change during this process. She wants to see what Molly's body does, especially with more days after diet change. (only 5 so far and already a positive change in glucose levels)
Click to expand...
I just realized your screen name..... Haha. Love young Frankenstein
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
While that method may have worked well for you and your cats with Lantus, it would not be advisable for anyone particularly anyone new to feline diabetes to give insulin while intentionally withholding food till onset. This could potentially create a hypo situation especially for anyone using one of the faster acting insulins. We don't know what insulin has been prescribed for Mollie so I don't think it's prudent to be suggesting any "customized" dosing practices at this point in time.
Click to expand...

I feel very overwhelmed and scared by the thought of doing anything that was not recomended b
Martica and Fred said:
You are doing the right thing and your vet knows jack. I've come across sooooooo many vets who know almost nothing about treating Db that I pretty much don't trust any of them anymore. And they ALL overdose. I've gotten most of the cats Ive treated regulated on 1/2 U Lantus even only 1x per day--by not feeding at shot time if BG is high...letting that 1/2 U take effect before feeding--usually 2-3 h. Less is more. Vets don't know that though.
Click to expand...
Martica and Fred said:
You are doing the right thing and your vet knows jack. I've come across sooooooo many vets who know almost nothing about treating Db that I pretty much don't trust any of them anymore. And they ALL overdose. I've gotten most of the cats Ive treated regulated on 1/2 U Lantus even only 1x per day--by not feeding at shot time if BG is high...letting that 1/2 U take effect before feeding--usually 2-3 h. Less is more. Vets don't know that though.
Click to expand...
JanetNJ said:
I just realized your screen name..... Haha. Love young Frankenstein
Click to expand...
=D Favorite!
 
Thanks to everyone here. I feel so much better now and happy to see others who are aligned with my gut instincts on this.

I feel very overwhelmed and scared by the thought of doing anything that was not recomended by my vet. I just dont have enough knowledge yet to make any judgment calls other than the obvious. THIS is why I am happy with my choice to get a 2nd vet opinion and consulted here. =D
 
Hello and welcome to the FDMB! I've scanned this thread twice, but I can't find the name of the insulin which has been prescribed for Molly. I may be missing the obvious. Wouldn't be the first time! LOL!

Do you know yet what the name of the insulin that will be prescribed for Molly? I saw the recommendations to start with 1 unit, but suggestions for initial starting doses may differ depending on the insulin and/or method of regulation. For examples:
Once you know the name of the insulin you'll be using I'm sure everyone will weigh in with opinions on dosing. :)



@Martica and Fred
Martica and Fred said:
I've gotten most of the cats Ive treated regulated on 1/2 U Lantus even only 1x per day--by not feeding at shot time if BG is high...letting that 1/2 U take effect before feeding--usually 2-3 h.
Click to expand...
Martica, this method would be considered an advanced technique only an experienced caregiver using Lantus may attempt for various reasons, but certainly not appropriate for a beginner. Agreed? I've seen a few other seasoned caregivers use the technique with success. Happy to hear it worked well for you!
 
Abby Normal said:
The wellness plan is for one year but after multiple conflicts at this office I left so frustrated and scared $%&#less yesterday that I decided to go with my gut instinct, got out my credit card I really shouldn't be using again and took her to a vet office closer to my house for a 2nd opinion.
Click to expand...

I'm so glad you found a vet you're happier with!! It's so important to be able to have mutual trust when treating our furr-babies.

If you bought that plan prior to meeting the vet, I would highly recommend calling them and saying you are unable to work with that vet and would like at least some of the money back. You don't have to be rude or anything, just say you disagreed with her approach for treatment and do not wish to continue with her.
They may not work with you, but there's really nothing to lose giving it a try.
 
Elated to hear you found a vet you are comfortable with and who will work with you in a partnership. You are caring for your cat 24/7 therefore you have to be comfortable with the plan to deal with any medical situation. Too many vets think one size fits all. Each of our furbabies is a unique individual and each of us as caregivers are also unique. Finding a vet who appreciates these facts is worth their weight in gold. Please keep us posted on how things go with Molly over the next few days. Fingers crossed that the diet change makes a huge impact on Molly's BG levels. :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top