Cierra Blood test results

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Din

Din

Member Since 2023
Please help me reading this data.

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Suzanne & Darcy said:
What is this wound or sore spot?
Click to expand...
Hi Suzanne about the pic ,in yesterday's post she said
Vet said this is after they took blood from her. I don’t them and remind again and again can we check her blood pressure. But they took her inside and did not let me go with her. They have make her suffer a lot Bron , what is the law regarding this Bron . Can they tell I can’t watch while they take blood? I’m just fed up . Check the photo blood is all over UNDER her skin.
upload_2023-5-24_10-59-53-jpeg.66892



Yesterdays post
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/cierra-urgent.277762/#post-3073453

Just read you knew it was from the blood draw from yesterday's post :cat:
 
I think that her blood work indicates that she is somewhat dehydrated. That's not unusual. Red blood cell numbers can be increased in diabetic cats, usually due to concentration of the blood due to dehydration (think of it as kind of less "water" in the blood relative to the total number of red blood cells.) Even though they drink lots of water, diabetic cats lose body water because they produce such a lot of dilute urine. Most unregulated diabetic cats are at least somewhat dehydrated. If she hasn't also been eating well, then that can contribute to the overall dehydration. I hope that they will put her on an IV drip during the dental procedure (to keep the blood volume up and to prevent drops in blood pressure.) Other markers for dehydration are that her total blood protein is just a little elevated and her globulin (another blood protein) is elevated. So really I think that when you start getting her into better BG numbers that a lot of these blood values will improve.

One thing I would keep an eye on. Some of her liver indicators (ALT, ALP) have been creeping up (comparing previous tests). Nothing alarming, but just keep an eye on it. This is also something that I sometimes see in diabetic cats that are unregulated. If the values get really high, then you can do things to help her liver like give Denamarin or Milk Thistle. But, as I said, it's just something to look at in some future bloodwork. Vets don't usually worry about slight elevations in these numbers in cats.

I would just keep feeding her a good quality, low carb, lower phosphorus food for her kidneys. SDMA can fluctuate around (as you can see from her past results). Her creatinine and BUN are good right now. Low phosphorus food will reduce workload on her kidneys as I am sure you already know.

Hope this helps.
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi Suzanne about the pic ,in yesterday's post she said
Vet said this is after they took blood from her. I don’t them and remind again and again can we check her blood pressure. But they took her inside and did not let me go with her. They have make her suffer a lot Bron , what is the law regarding this Bron . Can they tell I can’t watch while they take blood? I’m just fed up . Check the photo blood is all over UNDER her skin.
upload_2023-5-24_10-59-53-jpeg.66892



Yesterdays post
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/cierra-urgent.277762/#post-3073453

Just read you knew it was from the blood draw from yesterday's post :cat:
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for reply for this Dianne. My life is now extremely busy with three months old/ two purr babies/ studies/ work and specially keep thinking About Cierra. Thank you again:bighug:
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I think that her blood work indicates that she is somewhat dehydrated. That's not unusual. Red blood cell numbers can be increased in diabetic cats, usually due to concentration of the blood due to dehydration (think of it as kind of less "water" in the blood relative to the total number of red blood cells.) Even though they drink lots of water, diabetic cats lose body water because they produce such a lot of dilute urine. Most unregulated diabetic cats are at least somewhat dehydrated. If she hasn't also been eating well, then that can contribute to the overall dehydration. I hope that they will put her on an IV drip during the dental procedure (to keep the blood volume up and to prevent drops in blood pressure.) Other markers for dehydration are that her total blood protein is just a little elevated and her globulin (another blood protein) is elevated. So really I think that when you start getting her into better BG numbers that a lot of these blood values will improve.

One thing I would keep an eye on. Some of her liver indicators (ALT, ALP) have been creeping up (comparing previous tests). Nothing alarming, but just keep an eye on it. This is also something that I sometimes see in diabetic cats that are unregulated. If the values get really high, then you can do things to help her liver like give Denamarin or Milk Thistle. But, as I said, it's just something to look at in some future bloodwork. Vets don't usually worry about slight elevations in these numbers in cats.

I would just keep feeding her a good quality, low carb, lower phosphorus food for her kidneys. SDMA can fluctuate around (as you can see from her past results). Her creatinine and BUN are good right now. Low phosphorus food will reduce workload on her kidneys as I am sure you already know.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Thank you so so much Suzanne. Your explanation actually clear my mind. I’m trying so hard to find low phosphorus food. Currently I’m feeding 1% phosphorus lamb food from Raw meow . She is refusing to eat it now. I was trying to cook meat and feed them but so much on my hand and still it’s on regular. I think she is not getting enough water because she is not drinking water . I add water to her food but seems like it’s not enough.

I have emailed to frontier pet they told me their for vary between 0.7- 1.2.

Seems like they don’t give fixed percentage.

When do you think I should do next blood test?
Three months or six months?

thank you so much Suzanne :bighug:
 
Din said:
Thank you so so much Suzanne. Your explanation actually clear my mind. I’m trying so hard to find low phosphorus food. Currently I’m feeding 1% phosphorus lamb food from Raw meow . She is refusing to eat it now. I was trying to cook meat and feed them but so much on my hand and still it’s on regular. I think she is not getting enough water because she is not drinking water . I add water to her food but seems like it’s not enough.

I have emailed to frontier pet they told me their for vary between 0.7- 1.2.

Seems like they don’t give fixed percentage.

When do you think I should do next blood test?
Three months or six months?

thank you so much Suzanne :bighug:
Click to expand...
If she seems to be doing well and has a good appetite and you start getting her blood glucose down into better numbers then I would wait six months to repeat bloodwork.

You really do have a lot on your plate!
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Are you able to get Weruva brand in Dubbo Din?
I think it is only sold at Pet circle which you could get online.
Click to expand...
Yes Bron, I did email to Petbarn asking Weruwa phosphorus. They send me a link . I Mm going to find some low phosphorus and low carbs from that link . I emailed to feline nature and waiting for a reply.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
BFF play chicken & duck destiny
Protein 32%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 165%
Click to expand...
This makes absolutely no sense to me. Phosphorus 165% (how is that even possible?) is there are decimal point missing or something? Also, when I look at the Weruva website it says, for example, that the Chicken and Duck Destiny is .18% phosphorus as fed and 0.87% on a dry matter basis. So I can't get to 165% phosphorus from those numbers. Do you know, @Diane Tyler's Mom ? I'm confused.

Let me attach a link to the detailed nutrition information from the Weruva website that I was just looking at:
https://weruva.com/nutrition-landing/bff-play-ni/

Another thing I will say about the Weruva BFF PLAY pates (low carb low phos) which I feed generally the Chicken and Lamb Laugh Out Loud and the Chicken Duck and Turkey Take a Chance and the Chicken and Turkey Topsy Turvy flavors -- I have had four cats now come back with bloodwork where their potassium is low (a little below the reference range.) I really don't think they're putting enough potassium into the food. My solution has just been to put one scoop of Renal K powder (potassium that's chicken flavored) into their food once a day and that brought the potassium up sufficiently on the next bloodwork. So for some cats, it would be something to watch. A cat with Chronic Kidney Disease, for example, who is already going to be prone to having low potassium because they lose so much in their urine -- and even an unregulated diabetic cat might be subject to that as well -- may need supplemental potassium. This was in my cats who do not have neither kidney disease nor diabetes -- just otherwise healthy cats who are coming up with low potassium. I just decided that, since the Weruva BFF PLAY pates are working for us otherwise (everybody's phosphorus is great) that I would stick with the food and put in the one scoop of supplemental potassium. I just thought I'd mention this. I really ought to put this on the Feline Health Forum, too. I think I will write the company and ask them about it to see what they say. They're a good company.
 
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Suzanne & Darcy said:
This makes absolutely no sense to me. Phosphorus 165% (how is that even possible?) is there are decimal point missing or something? Also, when I look at the Weruva website it says, for example, that the Chicken and Duck Destiny is .18% phosphorus as fed and 0.87% on a dry matter basis. So I can't get to 165% phosphorus from those numbers. Do you know, @Diane Tyler's Mom ? I'm confused.
Click to expand...
Hi Suzanne give me a minute , I copied this from a member
This is what I have read on the forum a long time ago , when I was asking about Weruva food
You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts.

So does this make any sense I don't know, is it even correct to check where it says to check? plus it looks like what I posted that the other member posted is wrong
I have corrected that members list and went by where it says to check the both places I listed

If you think it's incorrect where to check ,I'll take it down
Please let me know ok :cat:
@Suzanne & Darcy

Edit I also wonder should we ask Weruva where to look on their nutritional values where to look for the carbs and phosphorus %

So which chart should we be looking at for the carbs and the phosphorus percentage as fed or dry matter ?

now I'm confused too :p

If what I copied and posted by this member is incorrect I do not want to post it again and give the wrong information to members
Thanks Suzanne
 
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Hi Diane @Diane Tyler's Mom,
The phosphorus values must be in mg of Phos/100 kcals.
Maybe the % formatting was inadvertently applied to the phosphorus column alongside the protein/fat columns in an excel sheet, while creating this list at the member’s end? :)

https://weruva.com/nutrition-landing/bff-play-ni/
This link seems to have the nutritional info you’ve shared in a tabular format.
ETA: it’s the same link that Suzanne had already shared; you’ve to look at the first and the last table for the ME profile and the mineral/ 100 kcals values respectively. This is what the original poster must have meant when they said you’ve to look at 2 different places in the Weruva charts.
 
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Nimi S said:
Hi Diane @Diane Tyler's Mom,
The phosphorus values must be in mg of Phos/100 kcals.
Maybe the % formatting was inadvertently applied to the phosphorus column alongside the protein/fat columns in an excel sheet, while creating this list at the member’s end? :)

https://weruva.com/nutrition-landing/bff-play-ni/
This link seems to have the nutritional info you’ve shared in a tabular format.
ETA: it’s the same link that Suzanne had already shared; you’ve to look at the first and the last table for the ME profile and the mineral/ 100 kcals values respectively. This is what the original poster must have meant when they said you’ve to look at 2 different places in the Weruva charts.
Click to expand...
Hi Nimisha how are you
Yes I have seen the chart you and Suzanne linked
When it comes to figuring these things out I'm no good at it lol
I don't feed Tyler Weruva I was trying to help out Din
So is this correct where you would look for the carbs and phosphorus percentages?

You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts.

So for the carbs you would look st the first chart for carbs and then the last chart for the phosphorus?
@Nimi S
 
Last edited:
@Nimi S
Suzanne said above post #17
when I look at the Weruva website it says, for example, that the Chicken and Duck Destiny is .18% phosphorus as fed and 0.87% on a dry matter basis.

So we don't look at as fed and dry matter for carbs and phosphorus %%
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi Nimisha how are you
Yes I have seen the chart you and Suzanne linked
When it comes to figuring these things out I'm no good at it lol
I don't feed Tyler Weruva I was trying to help out Din
Click to expand...

Thank you for asking, Diane. Shen and I are doing as well as we possibly could right now :D
In India, where we stay, we don't get Weruva either. Would have loved to have a brand of pet food that provides nutritional info to this extent :')
I just chipped in to share my understanding of the charts :)

Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@Nimi S so let's say you want to know the carbs for the chicken pouch destiny the carbs would be 5.10 % looking at the first chart here ?
Then the phosphorus would be 163% looking at the last chart ?
Is this correct?
Click to expand...

Rather than %, the phosphorus would be 163 mg/ 100 kcals of the chicken pouch destiny, since that is how they have quantified the amount of minerals within that particular product (i.e. the amount of the mineral present in the food per 100 kcal of energy)

As you had mentioned earlier, "You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus (which Weruva lists in Minerals) to be less than 250 mg per 100 kcals."

So for the Weruva Chicken Destiny pouches, we get
From table 1 (CALORIES AND METABOLIZABLE ENERGY (ME) PROFILE)
31.4% of calories from protein
5.1% of calories from carbs and

From table 4 (MINERAL / 100KCAL)
Phosphorus = 163 mg / 100 kcal

Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@Nimi S
Suzanne said above post #17
when I look at the Weruva website it says, for example, that the Chicken and Duck Destiny is .18% phosphorus as fed and 0.87% on a dry matter basis.

So we don't look at as fed and dry matter for carbs and phosphorus %%
Click to expand...

I think, the 2nd (AS FED %s) and the 3rd (DRY MATTER BASIS) tables in the Weruva link can be ignored while selecting the cat food based on the recommended %s of carbs and mg/100 kcal of phosphorus.

I hope I've not added to the confusion :oops:
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@Din
This might make it easier for you so you don't have to search for the weruva foods
You can check these out from Weruva BFF like

One of our members put it together the are pates
BFF play chicken Checkmate
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 133%

BFF play chicken & turkey topsy turvy
Protein 32%
Carbs 5.20%
Phosphorus 134%

BFF play chicken cherish
Protein 31%
Carbs 4.90%
Phosphorus 132%

BFF chicken & turkey tiptoe
Protein 31%
Carbs 5.10%
Phosphorus 133%

BFF chicken duck & turkey take a chance
Protein 32%
Carbs 5.20%
Phosphorus 152%

BFF play chicken & lamb laugh out loud
Protein 31%
Carbs 5%
Phosphorus 152%

BFF play chicken & duck destiny
Protein 32%
Carbs 5.10%
Phosphorus 163%

BFF play chicken & beef best buds
Protein 33%
Carbs 5.30%
Phosphorus 175%
Click to expand...
Thank you so so much @Diane Tyler's Mom .
What is the best phosphorus margin for kidney early stage cat? ( I know this is a stupid question, please help with your understanding)
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
This makes absolutely no sense to me. Phosphorus 165% (how is that even possible?) is there are decimal point missing or something? Also, when I look at the Weruva website it says, for example, that the Chicken and Duck Destiny is .18% phosphorus as fed and 0.87% on a dry matter basis. So I can't get to 165% phosphorus from those numbers. Do you know, @Diane Tyler's Mom ? I'm confused.

Let me attach a link to the detailed nutrition information from the Weruva website that I was just looking at:
https://weruva.com/nutrition-landing/bff-play-ni/

Another thing I will say about the Weruva BFF PLAY pates (low carb low phos) which I feed generally the Chicken and Lamb Laugh Out Loud and the Chicken Duck and Turkey Take a Chance and the Chicken and Turkey Topsy Turvy flavors -- I have had four cats now come back with bloodwork where their potassium is low (a little below the reference range.) I really don't think they're putting enough potassium into the food. My solution has just been to put one scoop of Renal K powder (potassium that's chicken flavored) into their food once a day and that brought the potassium up sufficiently on the next bloodwork. So for some cats, it would be something to watch. A cat with Chronic Kidney Disease, for example, who is already going to be prone to having low potassium because they lose so much in their urine -- and even an unregulated diabetic cat might be subject to that as well -- may need supplemental potassium. This was in my cats who do not have neither kidney disease nor diabetes -- just otherwise healthy cats who are coming up with low potassium. I just decided that, since the Weruva BFF PLAY pates are working for us otherwise (everybody's phosphorus is great) that I would stick with the food and put in the one scoop of supplemental potassium. I just thought I'd mention this. I really ought to put this on the Feline Health Forum, too. I think I will write the company and ask them about it to see what they say. They're a good company.
Click to expand...
Thank you for sharing this information Suzanne..!!!
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts.
Click to expand...
I see now that it was the percent symbol that messed everything up.

This is why I use this chart from the FB kidney group to guide me. I often share it with members here. @Din maybe this chart which shows which foods are low in phosphorus will help. Just go as low as you can get. There are many sheets in this list. There is one list that is exclusively for Weruva foods and shows all the phosphorus percentages. 154 mg phosphorus per 100 kcal (chicken and lam laugh out loud) and 149 mg. phosphorus per 100 kcal (chicken duck and turkey take a chance). The chart also show the percentage of phosphorus on a dry matter basis. There are many options that are less than 1% (like .79% on dry matter basis for the chicken duck and turkey that I feed.) So it has both ways of looking at the phosphorus levels on this chart and it's pretty easy to understand (although overwhelming like all these food inquiries!)
Penney's Pet Food Database - Combined_Food_Lists_Feeding_Guide.pdf
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@Suzanne & Darcy
I'm sorry if I confused Din, from now on I will use the links you just posted, I'm going to delete the list I gave Din :cat: I have deleted the list so Din isn't confused
Click to expand...
Oh no, Diane. I don’t think you have confused things. I am thinking that the list just should not have the percent sign where it is. I am going to look at it again now that we’ve discussed it and see of that is what the point of confusion was for me. You are, as always, incredibly helpful to all of our members. I don’t know what I would do without you!
 
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Suzanne & Darcy said:
I see now that it was the percent symbol that messed everything up.

This is why I use this chart from the FB kidney group to guide me. I often share it with members here. @Din maybe this chart which shows which foods are low in phosphorus will help. Just go as low as you can get. There are many sheets in this list. There is one list that is exclusively for Weruva foods and shows all the phosphorus percentages. 154 mg phosphorus per 100 kcal (chicken and lam laugh out loud) and 149 mg. phosphorus per 100 kcal (chicken duck and turkey take a chance). The chart also show the percentage of phosphorus on a dry matter basis. There are many options that are less than 1% (like .79% on dry matter basis for the chicken duck and turkey that I feed.) So it has both ways of looking at the phosphorus levels on this chart and it's pretty easy to understand (although overwhelming like all these food inquiries!)
Penney's Pet Food Database - Combined_Food_Lists_Feeding_Guide.pdf
Click to expand...
Thank you so so much Suzanne. :)
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Oh no, Diane. I don’t think you have confused things. I am thinking that the list just should not have the percent sign where it is. I am going to look at it again now that we’ve discussed it and see of that is what the point of confusion was for me. You are, as always, incredibly helpful to all of our members. I don’t know what I would do without you!
Click to expand...
Sorry for my late reply as usual Dianne . I’m always confused person . My husband sometimes giving up explaining things :woot: :woot:So you didn’t make me confused :bighug:
thank you so much for helping me with these stupid phosphorus and carbs
 
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