Cat Recently diagnosed with DM. Need Help =(

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integlspwr

Member Since 2015
Hi Everyone,

I've been reading a lot today because my partners cat has been diagnosed with Diabetes Mellitus and want to help with him and her.

Punky is an older cat, I believe 14-15 years old. She is not a over weight cat, but actually been loosing weight for a while and we didn't know it was part of her having DM.

The doctor told us to buy Hills Prescription Diet W/D and give her dry food and W/D wet cat food at night. We recently came back from the vet today and they got her glucose levels down to 400 levels (We don't know what her levels were before that, I presume it had to be high!). This is after the recommendation of buying and feeding her W/D cat food.

So now the vet has us giving her two units of insulin shots twice a day. I don't have the brand of insulin because we need to go to the store tomorrow and pick it up. I hate this idea because the food is what is making her glucose levels go up and the band aide is giving her insulin shots twice a day but the vet does not see an issue with this.

When she was eating dry W/D, she was eating it like no tomorrow. Tonight I bought 12 few cans of low carb Fancy Feast Turkey & Giblets Feast Classic & savory Salmon Feast Classic from Walmart.

Punky loves wet cat food and will eat that all day if she could, so thats not a problem at all switching to only wet. I have been reading time and time again to get a glucose reader? Which cheap one am I able to get at like Walmart or something.. I also have been reading to slowly switch from the Hills Prescription Diet W/D dry and Wet cat food to the Fancy Feast stuff I bought.

This evening I took away all her dry W/D cat food and gave her a full can of one of the Fancy Feast wet cat food I bought.

All this is a bit over whelming and all I want is just to help my partners cat and our little Punky.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks Everyone!

-Edgar
 
Hi - just quickly Edgar - welcome. My girl is about the same age and was losing weight as well (previously had been pretty fat).

Your instincts are right about the higher carb "prescription" food. Can you tell us what insulin he has Punky on?

From experience, I would personally hold off on insulin until you get Punky's diet changed over. I made the mistake of shooting 2 units of insulin AND changing Genghis over from a dry to wet diet (the same Fancy Feast) and she nearly went hypoglycaemic. Not trying to scare you and I'm not sure what her glucose levels were (keep in mind they can be artificially raised from stress at the vet) but just know that diet can have a major impact on her levels, sometimes as much as 100 - 200 points.

Walmart has a great, inexpensive meter called the Relion, I think. Sorry, I'm in Canada and our meters/strips are different up here.

You have come to really wonderful, experienced, and supportive place. I know you will make great progress with Punky. Ask lots of questions, don't be shy. Yes, it is overwhelming but I promise it will all fall into place.
 
PS, if you wouldn't mind taking down the 911 from your thread - it's usually reserved for people who are dealing with a health crisis. Not to minimize your concern in the slightest!!!
 
Welcome to the FDMB Edgar and extra sweet Punky!! You're in the best place you never wanted to be!!

One of the most popular blood glucose meters around here are the Relion Confirm or Micro from WalMart....they take the tiniest sample and the strips are affordable ($35.88/100)

You're totally right that the W/D is lousy food for a diabetic cat too! It's too high in carbs....Just like in humans, a low carb diet is what our sugarcats need and the Fancy Feast Classics are all under 10% carbs so they're fine

IF you're already giving insulin, then yes, it's very important to slowly reduce the carbs you're feeding and make sure you're home testing since going from high carb to low carb can result in a drop of 100 points or more, but if you're not shooting yet, now's the time to switch!! Some of us could switch over immediately, but some cats need to be transitioned slower to avoid stomach upset/diarrhea

2 Units is a pretty high starting dose no matter which insulin you end up with. Usually we start them at .5 to 1U every 12 hours and slowly work our way up so we keep them safe as well as not bypassing what might be a good dose for each cat

We're here to answer all the questions you have, so ask away!!

P.S....please go back and "edit" your subject line to remove the 911....we save that for cats that are in emergency situations like a hypoglycemic episode so when we see it, all our hearts skip a beat or two
 
Thanks everyone for the quick response. I removed the 911 form the Subject.

@Brashworks

I currently do not have the brand of insulin because we did not pick it up from the pharmacy yet. I will know what brand by tomorrow evening.

@Chris & China

We did not start giving her insulin yet for we did not pick it up from the pharmacy. But yes the vet pretty much said 2 units right off the bat for dosage of insulin when we get it.

I actually have been mixing some of the Fancy Feast Tuna and Shrimp classic with her W/D wet cat food because I knew the W/D stuff was bad for her. I did not buy more FF Tuna & Shrimp classic because of the high phosphorus levels it has. I do have one more can of it and will mix it with other FF flavors for her to eat.
 
Does she have kidney issues? If she does, then you're right that the Fancy Feast are higher phosphorus so shouldn't be used without a phosphorus binder, but if her kidney's are OK, it's a good, low carb food. There's another member here who has a list of foods broken down by Phosphorus if that's an issue

I'd strongly suggest not starting at 2U though....no matter which insulin it is! When you find out which insulin you're going to be using (It sounds like maybe Lantus or Levemir if you're getting it at a human pharmacy) I'd post here and get some opinions on a starting dose first
 
We were feeding her 9lives dry cat food with urinary tract health support.

Should I start giving her 1U with the recent switch to wet low carb cat food only?

Chris & China said:
Does she have kidney issues? If she does, then you're right that the Fancy Feast are higher phosphorus so shouldn't be used without a phosphorus binder, but if her kidney's are OK, it's a good, low carb food. There's another member here who has a list of foods broken down by Phosphorus if that's an issue

I'd strongly suggest not starting at 2U though....no matter which insulin it is! When you find out which insulin you're going to be using (It sounds like maybe Lantus or Levemir if you're getting it at a human pharmacy) I'd post here and get some opinions on a starting dose first
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Hi Edgar, I don't give dosing advice, but I would start Punky on the new low carb diet first, get the meter and start testing before starting the insulin. The change in food and lowered stress level (since she's home and not at the vet) may show she doesn't even need any insulin. If her numbers are still too high, post here and get advice on the best starting dose.
 
Definitely get her started on the low carb diet first. You will need to get a glucometer so you can check her blood glucose at home, it's amazing how much stress and improper diet can raise a cat's BG. Human glucometers, which is what most of us use, can be purchased at Walmart fairly inexpensively. Relion is usually the most cost effective as the test strips are not prohibitively expensive. Once you have your meter we can help you learn how to test Punky. :)
 
@integlspwr sounds like you are off to a great start! I can tell you've read up on diet already

I noticed that you posted and tagged me but I didn't receive a notification - just for your reference, if you would like to tag a specific person, you only need to type the "@" sign plus their name - even the first few letters should give you a drop-down menu to select the person. That person will receive a notification that you have "tagged" them.

I'm so glad Punky will be easy to transition over to an all-canned diet. I hope she is as cooperative for testing!
 
Sharon14 said:
Hi Edgar, I don't give dosing advice, but I would start Punky on the new low carb diet first, get the meter and start testing before starting the insulin. The change in food and lowered stress level (since she's home and not at the vet) may show she doesn't even need any insulin. If her numbers are still too high, post here and get advice on the best starting dose.
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Thanks for the feedback.

I'm not comfortable doing the test. I'll ask Dan if he can or wants to do it.

Right now we have her eating three cans of 3oz fancy feast cat food per day. We feed her half a can every 3 or so hours. What we also do is dribble some water into her wet cat food so that there is a puddles of water in her bowl. Gives her some water to drink if she isn't drinking enough.

She has eaten all the food we have given her today.
 
Chris & China said:
Does she have kidney issues? If she does, then you're right that the Fancy Feast are higher phosphorus so shouldn't be used without a phosphorus binder, but if her kidney's are OK, it's a good, low carb food. There's another member here who has a list of foods broken down by Phosphorus if that's an issue

I'd strongly suggest not starting at 2U though....no matter which insulin it is! When you find out which insulin you're going to be using (It sounds like maybe Lantus or Levemir if you're getting it at a human pharmacy) I'd post here and get some opinions on a starting dose first
Click to expand...

@Chris & China Dan got the Insulin today from Walmart. The one he got was Novolin-N. We haven't started to give her insulin yet. We are just doing the 4% low carb FF wet cat food.

Punky right now has not vomited like she used to before when eating the dry and wet W/D Cat food so thats always a good sign.
 
Please see my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for some additional assessments you may find helpful to evaluate your cat.
 
Hi Edgar. How long has she been eating the Fancy Feast? I would strongly recommend that you or Dan test her BG before giving her insulin! The low carb food has probably lowered her BG from the 400 at the vet's (vet stress also makes it higher, sometimes 100 pts or more, so it's probably already a little lower than it was at the office, anyway) and the 2 units may be too much for her.
 
integlspwr said:
Dan got the Insulin today from Walmart. The one he got was Novolin-N
Click to expand...

Was this the insulin the vet prescribed? Or did the pharmacist at WalMart "convince" Dan to buy it instead? (We've heard this many times in the past)

The problem with Novolin is that it can be very harsh...it tends to hit "hard" and then wear off long before 12 hours is up. Some cats do OK on it, but generally speaking, it's not a great insulin for cats

If you choose to try it, we'll still help you keep Punky safe and do the best we can to try to get her blood glucose in some better numbers!

I'd definitely spend a few days transitioning onto the low carb food first though, before starting to use Novolin
 
Squalliesmom said:
Hi Edgar. How long has she been eating the Fancy Feast? I would strongly recommend that you or Dan test her BG before giving her insulin! The low carb food has probably lowered her BG from the 400 at the vet's (vet stress also makes it higher, sometimes 100 pts or more, so it's probably already a little lower than it was at the office, anyway) and the 2 units may be too much for her.
Click to expand...

She has been on the Fancy Feast diet since last week Saturday, so about 3-4 days on the Fancy Feast only wet food diet. We did not give her any Insulin yet for she looks like she is doing better but there is no way for us to tell without testing her BG levels. The BG level of 400 at the vet is what they were able to bring her down to, I believe her levels must have been even higher then that.
 
The Relion Confirm or Micro are favorite meters here because they take the tiniest sample. The Prime has cheaper strips, but some people have trouble with getting error messages and it takes a little larger sample (You can also get strips from American Diabetes Wholesale online that work in the Confirm or Micro, but not in the Prime)

You need to look for some "Alternate Site Testing Lancets" that are 25-28 gauge instead of buying the 31-33 gauge lancets. The smaller the number, the bigger the "hole" it makes and when first starting, it helps to have the bigger hole. If you want to get one of the lancet devices, that's fine (any size lancet will fit) but they generally come with 10 lancets that are 33 gauge so you need the other size lancets with it. A lot of us don't use the device at all and just "freehand" with the lancet itself

Getting some of the Ketone Test Strips is a good idea too....Testing for ketones, especially if they're in high numbers is important

I really like these Swisspers cosmetic pads too...you use them to press against the ear to prevent bruising http://www.walmart.com/ip/Swisspers-Supreme-Cotton-Rounds-80ct/10451395
 
Also pick up a small tube of triple antibiotic or Neosporin, with pain relief, for the ears. And some low carb treats, can't forget the treats! :)
 
Squalliesmom said:
small tube of triple antibiotic or Neosporin, with pain relief, for the ears
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Good addition....but make sure it's the ointment, not the cream

Squalliesmom said:
And some low carb treats
Click to expand...

A lot of people use freeze dried chicken (get it from the dog aisle..cheaper and you just crumble the pieces up a little smaller for cats) or what I do is bake a piece of chicken now and then, chop it up, put some in the refrigerator and the rest in the freezer to be used as needed. Finding the treat your cat likes best is over half the battle!!

Here's something I wrote up for others for testing...maybe it'll help you too!

It can be really helpful to establish a routine with testing. Pick one spot that you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter because it's got good light and it's at a good height....it also already blocked 2 escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) It can be anywhere though...a rug on the floor, a table, a particular spot on the couch...wherever is good for you. Take him there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a yummy (low carb) treat. Most cats aren't objecting so much with the poking..it's the fooling with their ears they don't like, but once they're desensitized to it and learn to associate a certain place with the treats, they usually start to come when they're called! Or even when they hear us opening the test kit!

You also have to remember...you're not poking him to hurt him...you're testing him to keep him safe and understand what's going on inside his body. There's just nothing better than truly understanding what's going on inside your kitty's body and with this disease, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have against it. The edges of the ears have very few pain receptors, so it really doesn't hurt them. Also, if you're nervous and tense, it's going to make your kitty nervous and tense too. As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

It's also important to make sure his ear is warm. A small sock filled with a little rice and microwaved or a small pill bottle filled with warm water (check temp against your wrist like you would a baby bottle) works well

Finding the right "treat" will be a great help too! Freeze dried chicken, bonito flakes, little pieces of baked chicken...whatever low carb treat you can find that he really enjoys will help him to associate the testing with the treat! China's Achilles heel was baked chicken, so I'd bake a piece, chop it into bite sized pieces, put some in the refrigerator and freeze the rest to use as needed. It didn't take long for her to come any time I picked up the meter!
 
I understand if you want to try the Novolin if the vet prescribed it, but it's not a recommended insulin for cats, and most cats don't have a lot of success on it. If you do try it, I wouldn't keep the cat on it for more than a month if you don't see good results with it. You can go to your vet and ask for a script for different insulin; and if your vet doesn't agree you can go to a different vet that knows a bit more about diabetes in cats (Here's the AAHA guidelines that talk about insulin choice for cats, if you need to bring it to your vet).

The three recommended insulins for cats are Lantus, Levemir, and Prozinc. Lantus and Levemir have very high remission rates if started early in the course of the cat's diabetes, which is why I don't recommend sticking with the Novolin too long if it's not giving you good control. They are expensive in the US, but if you order a pack of the 3ml pens from Canada, it will last you a year or more and the monthly cost works out to be actually cheaper than Novolin (it's $170 for 5 pens, which is about $14 a month).
 
Chris & China said:
The Relion Confirm or Micro are favorite meters here because they take the tiniest sample. The Prime has cheaper strips, but some people have trouble with getting error messages and it takes a little larger sample (You can also get strips from American Diabetes Wholesale online that work in the Confirm or Micro, but not in the Prime)

You need to look for some "Alternate Site Testing Lancets" that are 25-28 gauge instead of buying the 31-33 gauge lancets. The smaller the number, the bigger the "hole" it makes and when first starting, it helps to have the bigger hole. If you want to get one of the lancet devices, that's fine (any size lancet will fit) but they generally come with 10 lancets that are 33 gauge so you need the other size lancets with it. A lot of us don't use the device at all and just "freehand" with the lancet itself

Getting some of the Ketone Test Strips is a good idea too....Testing for ketones, especially if they're in high numbers is important

I really like these Swisspers cosmetic pads too...you use them to press against the ear to prevent bruising http://www.walmart.com/ip/Swisspers-Supreme-Cotton-Rounds-80ct/10451395
Click to expand...

Hi Chris & China. Thanks for the great feedback. On the American Diabetes Wholesale website, can you link me to the test strips that work with The Relion Confirm & Micro meter?

Thanks in advance!
 
The Glucocard01 strips are the ones that work in the Confirm and Micro...and they're actually cheaper than the strips at WalMart if you get the "buy 4, get one free" offer

ADW will also send you coupon codes occasionally for 5-10% off and/or free shipping
 
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