Cat High and Inconsistent Glucose (With Daily Curve)

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Mai & Dad

Mai & Dad

Member
Hello all,

It is great to greet all of you again. It has been almost a year since I found this forum and I just want to thank everyone who has helped us (me and Mai) so far! I could not appreciate it more.

Mai has been wearing his Free Libre 2 for almost a week now and I have some results to share. Before that, a quick recap on his basics:

- 11 Years Old; Male Siamese
- Diagnosed Sep/Oct 2024; Two DKAs, second one happened in the ICU.
- Recently (for a few months now), he has been on 4.5 units Lantus, both morning and night at 9am/pm (food at 845).
- His diet:
8:45am, Morning: 1x 3.0oz can of Royal Canon Veterinary Diet Adult Glycobalance Thin Slices in Gravy Canned Cat Food. He gets about two forks of Earthborn Holistic Harbor Harvest Grain-Free Cans (Chicken Catcciatori) on top of that.
- Around noon: 1 tube of Churro (and mixing probiotics and fiber)
- 8:45pm, Evening: 1x 3.0oz can of Royal Canon Veterinary Diet Adult Glycobalance Thin Slices in Gravy Canned Cat Food. He gets about two forks of Earthborn Holistic Harbor Harvest Grain-Free Cans (Harbor Harvest) on top of that.
- Around 11pm: 1 tube of Churro (and mixing probiotics and fiber)
- Midnight - 1am: He gets 1-2 forks of Earthborn Holistic Harbor Harvest Grain-Free Cans (Chicken Catcciatori) before bed.

I have updated his numbers in the spreadsheet and updated it in my signature. Here is the link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...0sEJdCN9NQPOS96a1n5Tang447KkKjAQtUqkN/pubhtml.
Unfortunately I am currently in the moving process and I was not able to capture many data points in the first a few days so I have attached the screen shot from the Free Libre app as well.

My main frustrations and questions:

1. His glucose is still high, after adjusting his insulin level for many times (after a curve at the vet). I was recommended against home testing / free libre by all vets. I went rogue and tried home testing... Let's just say it was bloody and we gave that up. I have tried Free Libre once before but didn't do it well.
2. His glucose level seems very unstable for me, does it look normal to you (those who are more experienced with regular curve?) His vet is a very nice lady but it has been almost a year since his DKA and I am afraid that he is still not well controlled. Is this range of glucose level dangerous to him?
3. What happens when he threw up? As you can see his glucose level came down in the last two days. I suspect that is because of he vomited on 08/07. The same thing happened when he had Free Libre last time as well. This time, I gave him some food between 3-5pm when the glucose level hit below 70.
4. When should I freak out when using Free Libre? The last time, his glucose often went below 70 and reached below 50 at night and scared me a lot.

Mai had really bad diarrhea for 3 months straight when he first came back, when three different vets could not figure out why. And you guys really helped me get him back to a regular poo. I really wish we can get your help again to lower his glucose level. Thank you!

Here are his Free Libre Screenshots: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/85s4...ug08.pdf?rlkey=zbk5qnd6y6ji3odyfvo04qtys&dl=0
 
Last edited:
Hal Dustin said:
Hello all,

It is great to greet all of you again. It has been almost a year since I found this forum and I just want to thank everyone who has helped us (me and Mai) so far! I could not appreciate it more.

Mai has been wearing his Free Libre 2 for almost a week now and I have some results to share. Before that, a quick recap on his basics:

- 11 Years Old; Male Siamese
- Diagnosed Sep/Oct 2024; Two DKAs, second one happened in the ICU.
- Recently (for a few months now), he has been on 4.5 units Lantus, both morning and night at 9am/pm (food at 845).
- His diet:
8:45am, Morning: 1x 3.0oz can of Royal Canon Veterinary Diet Adult Glycobalance Thin Slices in Gravy Canned Cat Food. He gets about two forks of Earthborn Holistic Harbor Harvest Grain-Free Cans (Chicken Catcciatori) on top of that.
- Around noon: 1 tube of Churro (and mixing probiotics and fiber)
- 8:45pm, Evening: 1x 3.0oz can of Royal Canon Veterinary Diet Adult Glycobalance Thin Slices in Gravy Canned Cat Food. He gets about two forks of Earthborn Holistic Harbor Harvest Grain-Free Cans (Harbor Harvest) on top of that.
- Around 11pm: 1 tube of Churro (and mixing probiotics and fiber)
- Midnight - 1am: He gets 1-2 forks of Earthborn Holistic Harbor Harvest Grain-Free Cans (Chicken Catcciatori) before bed.

I have updated his numbers in the spreadsheet and updated it in my signature. Here is the link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...0sEJdCN9NQPOS96a1n5Tang447KkKjAQtUqkN/pubhtml.
Unfortunately I am currently in the moving process and I was not able to capture many data points in the first a few days so I have attached the screen shot from the Free Libre app as well.

My main frustrations and questions:

1. His glucose is still high, after adjusting his insulin level for many times (after a curve at the vet). I was recommended against home testing / free libre by all vets. I went rogue and tried home testing... Let's just say it was bloody and we gave that up. I have tried Free Libre once before but didn't do it well.
2. His glucose level seems very unstable for me, does it look normal to you (those who are more experienced with regular curve?) His vet is a very nice lady but it has been almost a year since his DKA and I am afraid that he is still not well controlled. Is this range of glucose level dangerous to him?
3. What happens when he threw up? As you can see his glucose level came down in the last two days. I suspect that is because of he vomited on 08/07. The same thing happened when he had Free Libre last time as well. This time, I gave him some food between 3-5pm when the glucose level hit below 70.
4. When should I freak out when using Free Libre? The last time, his glucose often went below 70 and reached below 50 at night and scared me a lot.

Mai had really bad diarrhea for 3 months straight when he first came back, when three different vets could not figure out why. And you guys really helped me get him back to a regular poo. I really wish we can get your help again to lower his glucose level. Thank you!

Here are his Free Libre Screenshots: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/85s4...ug08.pdf?rlkey=zbk5qnd6y6ji3odyfvo04qtys&dl=0
Click to expand...
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Wendy&Neko
@tiffmaxee
 
Hi it's best to add the information you told us about Mai where you have her SS link, It's called your signature
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help

  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Bexacat or Senvelgo (if applicable) and dates
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Do you see mine about Tyler

@Hal Dustin
 
Last edited:
The freestyle Libre is unreliable with BGs under 100 so really to get the best results, I would recommend you try using a hand held meter again to get some true results..
And I disagree totally with the vet saying not to home test. That is putting one’s head in the sand and hoping for the best!!
Are you testing for ketones in the urine? If not I would strongly recommend you do with a history of 2x DKA in the past. You say diagnosed Sept/Oct 24… Do you mean 23?
How long have you been following TR?
There is not much data yet but Looking at the SS I would say he is most likely bouncing from the green BGs….if you look at the next cycle they are red. But he’s not bouncing for long.
If you could add some info into the remarks columns of the SS so we can see what has happened that day, that would be helpful.
I would try giving him regular snacks during every cycle as at +2 and +4 and +6 to see if that helps.
 
One quick observation -- The Royal Canin Glycobalance is 14% carb. We consider low carb as under 10% and most members feed their cat a canned food that is in the neighborhood of 5% carb. The Glycobalance is at the high end of a medium carb food. The Earthborn food is 20% carb and is definitely high carb. You may see better results in your cat's blood glucose if you considered a foods that are low in carbohydrates. At this point, you're giving insulin but feeding your cat the equivalent of ice cream, cake, and candy. Just because a cat food is "grain free" doesn't mean it's low in carbs!

This chart has information on canned cat foods and their nutritional content.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
One quick observation -- The Royal Canin Glycobalance is 14% carb. We consider low carb as under 10% and most members feed their cat a canned food that is in the neighborhood of 5% carb. The Glycobalance is at the high end of a medium carb food. The Earthborn food is 20% carb and is definitely high carb. You may see better results in your cat's blood glucose if you considered a foods that are low in carbohydrates. At this point, you're giving insulin but feeding your cat the equivalent of ice cream, cake, and candy. Just because a cat food is "grain free" doesn't mean it's low in carbs!

This chart has information on canned cat foods and their nutritional content.
Click to expand...

Hi Welcome to the Forum, Bron is correct the Libres are extremely unreliable with high or even low BG's, and unlike the vet telling you not to home test, if it wasn't for home testing my Corky would have not been alive today, the troubles I went thru with Libre Sensor and monitor were a nightmare, they fall off stop working before the 14 days, and crazy Bg readings not until I purchased the ReliOn Premier monitor and Strips and started home testing, was when my Corky started to see improvement, and especially feeding nothing but 0-10 % carbs, I like Fancy Feast has many low carb food variety. yes of course, most Vet want the Libre, my Vet never told me that I can change the sensor without his assistance, most likely because I would have to take Corky back as well as when you see the symptoms Mai has, by not home testing or before and after maim meal prior to shooting insulin can also be dangerous. It's overwhelming, at least for me seeing all those high BG's Corky was hospitalized with 675 Glucose level and with the Libre, I had no idea what to do, thank God for finding this Forum, I have had the confidence of the experts here in almost every concern I had and have, even in reducing or increasing insulin, I trust them blindly, my Corky is very very healthy the diabetes diagnosed Jan 2nd 2023 I have not had the need once to take him to the Vet and you can see in his Spreadsheet his amazing progress, thanks for all these kind and generous members. So Welcome, follow, do and trust this forum and Mai will be back to her very best soon, and no concern is dumb, ask anything that you see is concerning to you and Mai:bighug:;):cat::cat:
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi it's best to add the information you told us about Mai where you have her SS link, It's called your signature
Here is a link helping us to help you link. If you noticed, our members have some basic information about their cat's in their signature. This helps us to not pester you by asking the same questions (your cat's name, insulin type, date of diagnosis, etc.) repeatedly. We also have a link to our spreadsheet in our signature. We are very numbers driven. The spreadsheet is a record of your cat's progress. By linking it in your signature, we can follow along and provide feedback should you need the help

  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Bexacat or Senvelgo (if applicable) and dates
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Do you see mine about Tyler

@Hal Dustin
Click to expand...
Thank you! I have updated my signature to include the above information!
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
The freestyle Libre is unreliable with BGs under 100 so really to get the best results, I would recommend you try using a hand held meter again to get some true results..
And I disagree totally with the vet saying not to home test. That is putting one’s head in the sand and hoping for the best!!
Are you testing for ketones in the urine? If not I would strongly recommend you do with a history of 2x DKA in the past. You say diagnosed Sept/Oct 24… Do you mean 23?
How long have you been following TR?
There is not much data yet but Looking at the SS I would say he is most likely bouncing from the green BGs….if you look at the next cycle they are red. But he’s not bouncing for long.
If you could add some info into the remarks columns of the SS so we can see what has happened that day, that would be helpful.
I would try giving him regular snacks during every cycle as at +2 and +4 and +6 to see if that helps.
Click to expand...

- Thank you. I see. I will give the hand held meter another try once I finalize my move. It was pretty bad last time but I promise I will give it another try for Mai.

- I am not testing for ketones at home, but he tested for ketones 2-3 times since he retuned home and fortunately there was none. Do you have any specific suggestions in terms of strips? Yes, I meant 23, sorry.

- I guess I have not really been following the TR as I have mostly relied on the vet to get him on track, but so far no luck for us. We started to give him Lantus in 10/2023 and eventually went from 1 unit to 4.5 units twice per day now.

- What do you mean by bouncing from the green BGs and not bouncing for long? And I will keep updating the sheet for sure and I will add remarks.

- Given his BG is already high, wouldn't that push his BG to even higher?

Thank you so much for your time and help!!
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
One quick observation -- The Royal Canin Glycobalance is 14% carb. We consider low carb as under 10% and most members feed their cat a canned food that is in the neighborhood of 5% carb. The Glycobalance is at the high end of a medium carb food. The Earthborn food is 20% carb and is definitely high carb. You may see better results in your cat's blood glucose if you considered a foods that are low in carbohydrates. At this point, you're giving insulin but feeding your cat the equivalent of ice cream, cake, and candy. Just because a cat food is "grain free" doesn't mean it's low in carbs!

This chart has information on canned cat foods and their nutritional content.
Click to expand...

Thank you! And I actually did use the tool to explore different food options. One difficult is that he also had high kidney values so I had to also keep the phosphorus level in mind. I tried the few option that I identified that is low in carb and phosphorus but he is not really that interested in them. The Earthborn is really just to get him to eat his "diabetic food".

But I very much agree with you that perhaps his diet is far from ideal. And I would really appreciate some suggestions in making changes. The vet seems to be pretty adamant that a diabetic prescription will be better at the end of the day? It seems that may not necessarily be the case? Is carb the only thing that I should consider here?

Thanks again!
 
CORKY said:
Hi Welcome to the Forum, Bron is correct the Libres are extremely unreliable with high or even low BG's, and unlike the vet telling you not to home test, if it wasn't for home testing my Corky would have not been alive today, the troubles I went thru with Libre Sensor and monitor were a nightmare, they fall off stop working before the 14 days, and crazy Bg readings not until I purchased the ReliOn Premier monitor and Strips and started home testing, was when my Corky started to see improvement, and especially feeding nothing but 0-10 % carbs, I like Fancy Feast has many low carb food variety. yes of course, most Vet want the Libre, my Vet never told me that I can change the sensor without his assistance, most likely because I would have to take Corky back as well as when you see the symptoms Mai has, by not home testing or before and after maim meal prior to shooting insulin can also be dangerous. It's overwhelming, at least for me seeing all those high BG's Corky was hospitalized with 675 Glucose level and with the Libre, I had no idea what to do, thank God for finding this Forum, I have had the confidence of the experts here in almost every concern I had and have, even in reducing or increasing insulin, I trust them blindly, my Corky is very very healthy the diabetes diagnosed Jan 2nd 2023 I have not had the need once to take him to the Vet and you can see in his Spreadsheet his amazing progress, thanks for all these kind and generous members. So Welcome, follow, do and trust this forum and Mai will be back to her very best soon, and no concern is dumb, ask anything that you see is concerning to you and Mai:bighug:;):cat::cat:
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for your kind words! I for sure trust everyone here and appreciate your help. I will definitely give home testing with hand held device another try. Hopefully it will turn out better for both of us this time around.

And I will follow your advice and explore more food options as well!
 
@Hal Dustin
Hi Hal I noticed on your SS that the last 2 color coding up top are for a pet meter. If you can change them I'll tell you what they should be
The dark green should be 50-99
The lime green should be BG <50
I think you should be able to change them yourself, if not let me know and I can ask someone to change it for you :cat:
Hal do you have any BG tests you can add to Mai's SS. I thought I saw some before but they are gone now . Do you have the U-100 syringes with the half unit markings? We usually increase or decrease by 0.25 units at a time. These syringes make it easier to do

If you don't have a hand held meter
Here is the link for the meter and test strips so you don't have to search for them
Relion Premier Classic Meter at Walmart for 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

The tests strips are 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197
At least if you need more test strips you can run into Walmart and pick them up or just order them

Syringes
you can get them from Amazon without a vets script
https://www.amazon.com/UltiCare-31-Gauge-Veterinary-Insulin-Syringes/dp/B009LTE0DO
 
Last edited:
Hal Dustin said:
Thank you. I see. I will give the hand held meter another try once I finalize my move. It was pretty bad last time but I promise I will give it another try for Mai.

- I am not testing for ketones at home, but he tested for ketones 2-3 times since he retuned home and fortunately there was none. Do you have any specific suggestions in terms of strips? Yes, I meant 23, sorry.

- I guess I have not really been following the TR as I have mostly relied on the vet to get him on track, but so far no luck for us. We started to give him Lantus in 10/2023 and eventually went from 1 unit to 4.5 units twice per day now.

- What do you mean by bouncing from the green BGs and not bouncing for long? And I will keep updating the sheet for sure and I will add remarks.

- Given his BG is already high, wouldn't that push his BG to even higher?

Thank you so much for your time and help!!
Click to expand...
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@Hal Dustin
Hi Hal I noticed on your SS that the last 2 color coding up top are for a pet meter. If you can change them I'll tell you what they should be
The dark green should be 50-99
The lime green should be BG <50
I think you should be able to change them yourself, if not let me know and I can ask someone to change it for you :cat:
Hal do you have any BG tests you can add to Mai's SS. I thought I saw some before but they are gone now . Do you have the U-100 syringes with the half unit markings? We usually increase or decrease by 0.25 units at a time. These syringes make it easier to do

If you don't have a hand held meter
Here is the link for the meter and test strips so you don't have to search for them
Relion Premier Classic Meter at Walmart for 9 dollars
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-CLASSIC-Blood-Glucose-Monitoring-System/552134103

The tests strips are 17.88 for 100
https://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Premier-Blood-Glucose-Test-Strips-100-Count/575088197
At least if you need more test strips you can run into Walmart and pick them up or just order them

Syringes
you can get them from Amazon without a vets script
https://www.amazon.com/UltiCare-31-Gauge-Veterinary-Insulin-Syringes/dp/B009LTE0DO
Click to expand...

Thank you for the heads-up. The link was somehow directing to a blank google sheet and I fixed it to his spreadsheet again. I have also updated his number last night and today.

Update: The vet just called me and told me his Fructosamine (tested last Wednesday, 08/01) was 512.

I am planning on switching him off the prescription food recommended by the vet. I actually called her today and asked her why does this food have 14% carb and only 7.5% protein if it's designed for diabetic cats. She agreed this is weird and said she will look into what is special about the food.

But I am planning on moving Mai to Tiki cans based on the chart. There are a couple ones with 0 carb and low Pho as well. I will probably start feeding him new food next week. Should I still adjust his insulin level tonight and for the weekend? Or should I just keep the current dosage? Is his Fructosamine and BG level high enough to warrant more insulin immediately?

Thank you again for all your help!
 
Hal Dustin said:
Thank you for the heads-up. The link was somehow directing to a blank google sheet and I fixed it to his spreadsheet again. I have also updated his number last night and today.

Update: The vet just called me and told me his Fructosamine (tested last Wednesday, 08/01) was 512.

I am planning on switching him off the prescription food recommended by the vet. I actually called her today and asked her why does this food have 14% carb and only 7.5% protein if it's designed for diabetic cats. She agreed this is weird and said she will look into what is special about the food.

But I am planning on moving Mai to Tiki cans based on the chart. There are a couple ones with 0 carb and low Pho as well. I will probably start feeding him new food next week. Should I still adjust his insulin level tonight and for the weekend? Or should I just keep the current dosage? Is his Fructosamine and BG level high enough to warrant more insulin immediately?

Thank you again for all your help!
Click to expand...
@Hal Dustin
I'm tagging more experienced members for you about this since they responded to your post already
@Wendy&Neko
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
Thanks ladies
I assume he has to do the switch slowly from the 14% carbs and the 20% carbs of wet food he's feeding now to the Tiki Cat wet, or is that just when you are feeding kibble ?

Do you think he should start posting on the Lantus board yet ?
 
Last edited:
@Hal Dustin
You probably already know this but I'll tell you anyway

On your spreadsheet when you don't test on the hour you can put it like this on your spreadsheet . Here is an EXAMPLES ONLY

120 @4.5 then you will need to color code it manually :cat: ( Means you tested 4 hours and 30 minutes ) This would go in the +4 cell
.5 means a half hour
.25 means 15 minutes
.75 means 45 minutes

So you would enter the BG number then what I posted above
EXAMPLES ONLY
200 @+3.25. You would enter this in the +3 cell like that then color code it manually

200 @+3.5 means 3 hours and 30 minutes put it in the +3 cell color code it manually.

200 @+3 .75 means 3 hours and 45 minutes you would put it in the +3 cell then color code manually.
If it's 20 minutes you can just put @ 20 minutes
 
Last edited:
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
@Hal Dustin
You probably already know this but I'll tell you anyway

On your spreadsheet when you don't test on the hour you can put it like this on your spreadsheet . Here is an EXAMPLES ONLY

120 @4.5 then you will need to color code it manually :cat: ( Means you tested 4 hours and 30 minutes ) This would go in the +4 cell
.5 means a half hour
.25 means 15 minutes
.75 means 45 minutes

So you would enter the BG number then what I posted above
EXAMPLES ONLY
200 @+3.25. You would enter this in the +3 cell like that then color code it manually

200 @+3.5 means 3 hours and 30 minutes put it in the +3 cell color code it manually.

200 @+3 .75 means 3 hours and 45 minutes you would put it in the +3 cell then color code manually.
If it's 20 minutes you can just put @ 20 minutes
Click to expand...

You got this !!!:bighug::bighug::bighug::cat::cat:;)
 
Any move you do with the food, do slowly to prevent any tummy upsets and you will need to be making sure you are monitoring the BGs during this process as the BG will most likely drop lower with the lower carb food.
Yes Ketostix is what you need to test ketones in the urine.
I would really recommend you look at our two dosing methods and choose one of them, you will have more success than following the vet who most likely is only taking a guess.
Dosing Methods

And here is an explanation on bouncing
  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
 
Last edited:
Hal Dustin said:
But I am planning on moving Mai to Tiki cans based on the chart. There are a couple ones with 0 carb and low Pho as well. I will probably start feeding him new food next week. Should I still adjust his insulin level tonight and for the weekend? Or should I just keep the current dosage? Is his Fructosamine and BG level high enough to warrant more insulin immediately?

Thank you again for all your help!
Click to expand...
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
Bron what do you think
 
Carbs are very important but so is phosphorus if your cat has kidney issues. The link that Wendy provided (see post #18 above) should help with food choices.

It sounds like your vet is unaware that the pet food manufacturers lost a class action suit for calling their foods "prescription." When the ingredients were reviewed, there was quite literally nothing in the foods that warranted a prescription. If you consider what would be medically important for a diabetic cat, the food would need to include insulin. It doesn't. As you correctly noted, in the Royal Canin, the carbs are high and the protein is low. The pet food manufacturers typically market their "prescription" food to vets who then make a profit selling it to you. Their marketing people are very good at convincing vets about the food being illness specific. It's not.
 
Hal Dustin said:
Update: The vet just called me and told me his Fructosamine (tested last Wednesday, 08/01) was 512.

I am planning on switching him off the prescription food

But I am planning on moving Mai to Tiki cans based on the chart. There are a couple ones with 0 carb and low Pho as well. I will probably start feeding him new food next week. Should I still adjust his insulin level tonight and for the weekend? Or should I just keep the current dosage? Is his Fructosamine and BG level high enough to warrant more insulin immediately?

Thank you again for all your help!
Click to expand...

@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
@Wendy&Neko
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
Should he increase or hold the dose for now.
Thanks ladies
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Check out the CKD Diabetes food list for a list of foods that are low in carbs and suitable for CKD cats. The switch will definitely help Mai's BG numbers.
Click to expand...

Thank you! I am planning on switching him to TIKI chicken cans, they seem to all have 0 carb and about 0.9% Pho. They even have multiple flavors that all have similar calories / carb / etc so I can rotate them because Mai is also a picky eater.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Any move you do with the food, do slowly to prevent any tummy upsets and you will need to be making sure you are monitoring the BGs during this process as the BG will most likely drop lower with the lower carb food.
Yes Ketostix is what you need to test ketones in the urine.
I would really recommend you look at our two dosing methods and choose one of them, you will have more success than following the vet who most likely is only taking a guess.
Dosing Methods

And here is an explanation on bouncing
  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
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I see! Thanks for the detailed explanation. That makes sense and I'll keep an eye on it going forward.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Carbs are very important but so is phosphorus if your cat has kidney issues. The link that Wendy provided (see post #18 above) should help with food choices.

It sounds like your vet is unaware that the pet food manufacturers lost a class action suit for calling their foods "prescription." When the ingredients were reviewed, there was quite literally nothing in the foods that warranted a prescription. If you consider what would be medically important for a diabetic cat, the food would need to include insulin. It doesn't. As you correctly noted, in the Royal Canin, the carbs are high and the protein is low. The pet food manufacturers typically market their "prescription" food to vets who then make a profit selling it to you. Their marketing people are very good at convincing vets about the food being illness specific. It's not.
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That is actually crazy. I know it's bad but I didn't quite know it's that bad. I always knew these prescriptive ones may not be worth it but the fact that they help 0% somehow still surprises me.
 
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