Carb sensitivity? (diff. canned foods affecting BG)

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grapey

grapey

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Lily is on 1 unit BID of Lantus (hope I used that right--twice daily!) and had been doing pretty well in the six days since we started insulin. But today she's up in the high 300s/400s! I'm racking my brain trying to figure out why, and all I can think is, maybe it's the canned Science Diet m/d? It has 14 carbs (according to Janet and Binky's list). Before she started eating the m/d, I had been feeding her the Purina DM canned, which I think has 7 carbs. Her numbers on the DM alone--without any insulin--were better than they are today *with* the insulin! (I know Science Diet isn't recommended, but I'm trying to balance my vet's advice with what I'm reading here. She's a good vet, and she's all for the home testing and high protein diet.)

Could that amount of carbs make such a big difference in her BG? In any case, I'm taking her off the m/d ASAP and putting her back on the Purina DM as well as the 9 Lives/Friskies that have 7 carbs or less (from the aforementioned list). In case I forgot to mention, this is her sixth day on Lantus.

Thank you!!
 
It's quite possible that it could be in response to the food. Is there any other possible source of food that she might have access to as well (e.g., a well-meaning neighbour or child offering her a few high-carb cat treats? Even a few commercial treats of anything but pure meat/fish could trigger a spike).

Also, are you completely certain that your last couple of injections made it fully into the cat without any leakage? We've had a couple of accidental temporary dose reductions this way, and have seen higher-than-otherwise-expected BG numbers at the time of the next PS.
 
Thank you! Very good questions. I don't think she's eaten anything else; we don't keep the dog food out anymore and there's nothing else for her to eat. I think the insulin has been getting in there, but I have been trying not to poke her so hard, so maybe I did the exact opposite.
 
Food made a big difference with Goomer! In January we found that he was food sensitive, he was up to 10 units BID of Lantus. Had to take him off Purina DM all together. Vet kept saying poultry based foods so one of the foods we tried was Friskies SD Turkey & Giblets(5% carbs on Binkys list). After 2 weeks of no improvement I decided to try Friskies SD Ocean Whitefish(3% carbs on Binkys list). And just that little change helped, Goomer has been OTJ for over 10 days now :-D IMHO its all about finding what works for Lily. Keep trying you will find what works for her! :smile:
 
Yes, M/D is too high in carbs for a diabetic cat. The only prescription diet that has acceptable carb levels for a diabetic is Purina DM canned, which is why you are seeing such an improvement on that food. However, if you look at the ingredients, it's pretty much the same thing as the cheaper-mid grade grocery store brands of food like Special Kitty and Fancy Feast. So you're paying a 75% markup for just the prescription diet label. You can buy a premium food with human grade ingredients for less than what you're spending on the prescription diets.

Here's the M/D ingredients: http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd...ht-loss-low-carbohydrate-diabetic-canned.html

Pork By-Products, Pork Liver, Water, Corn Starch, Powdered Cellulose, Soy Protein Isolate, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Calcium Carbonate, Guar Gum, Locust Bean Gum, Calcium Sulfate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Carrageenan, Rice Flour, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Potassium Chloride, DL-Methionine, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Carnitine, Thiamine Mononitrate, Ascorbic Acid (source of vitamin C), Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Beta-Carotene, Niacin, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite.
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It contains corn starch, which is what is elevating your cat's blood sugar. No diabetic cat (or cat in general, for that matter) should have anything with corn as an ingredient.

Here's a link to the Purina DM ingredients: http://www.purinaveterinarydiets.com/Product/DMDieteticManagementCatFood.aspx

Liver, poultry by-products, meat by-products, water sufficient for processing, chicken, salmon, oat fiber, salmon meal, guar gum, potassium chloride, carrageenan, salt, Vitamin E supplement, calcium phosphate, taurine, thiamine mononitrate, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, niacin, calcium pantothenate, copper sulfate, Vitamin A supplement, manganese sulfate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, biotin, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, potassium iodide. I-4573
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No corn, but it does have oat fiber which elevates the food to about 7% carbs.

Compare it to Fancy Feast Liver and Chicken:

Liver, meat broth, meat by-products, chicken, poultry by-products, artificial and natural flavors, calcium phosphate, guar gum, potassium chloride, taurine, salt, magnesium sulfate, zinc sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, niacin, manganese sulfate, calcium pantothenate, Vitamin A supplement, copper sulfate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, biotin, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, potassium iodide.
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The Fancy Feast is actually a BETTER quality food because it contains slightly more muscle meat (higher quality protein) than the DM, and no grains.

And then look at the ingredients for premium food--this is Merrick's Before Grain Turkey:

Turkey, Turkey Broth, Dried Egg, Yeast Extract, Glycine, Glycine, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride,
Salt, Guar, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Carageenan,
Mixed Tocopherols, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Iron Amino Acid Complex,
Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Copper Amino Acid Complex, d-Calcium Pantothenate,
Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin, Lecithin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid,
Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Cobalt Glucoheptanate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate,
Sodium Selenite
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grapey said:
I think the insulin has been getting in there, but I have been trying not to poke her so hard, so maybe I did the exact opposite.
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If you're using 1/2" needles, you might consider trying 5/16" ones instead -- the shorter needle means you can poke all the way with more confidence and less fear. Boo is a particularly fat cat, so we can inject almost anywhere without even 'tenting' his skin first; your technique will, of course, depend on your own kitty. (Also, I've found that checking that the beveled edge of the needle is on the upper side before I inject results in almost no reaction/notice from Boo while I'm shooting, which makes it easier to hold the needle in place for that second it takes for me to get the insulin fully emptied into him before withdrawing. Have a quick look at the point of the needle in bright light, and you should be able to spot the 'glint' of the beveled edge as you slowly turn it. We almost always shoot while he's eating, and he rarely even pauses from gobbling up his food while we do it, so it's rarely difficult to get a firm, confident shot.)
 
Thank you everyone! (Vidya, your Boo is ADORABLE.) I am ditching the Science Diet m/d and back to the Purina DM. I will also mix in some of the low-carb "regular" stuff from 9 Lives and Friskies. I have Friskies Ocean Whitefish and Tuna, 9 Lives Prime Grill w/Beef, and a couple others I think.

I fed her some of the Prime Grill last night as an apology for poking her ear three times last night :( and this morning, after eating more DM--before her shot--her BG was 251. So I'm already feeling better.

Corn starch??? Nasty!! If I continue to see a difference off the m/d, you better believe I'm telling my vet.
 
Food makes a big difference for Ruby. She normally eats Fancy Feast Classic Chopped Grill and Classic Beef & Chicken Feast which are 2%-3%. I'm learning that if she starts dipping too low, I can start out with giving her a bit of FF Chunky Chicken Feast or Chunky Turkey Feast (not gravy varities!). They are about 5% and can bump her enough to surf. If that doesn't work, I've tried the Friskies Poultry Platter, which I think is 7% and that helps, too. Gravy will make her bounce like a superball. I've haven't used Karo but I can imagine that would be even worse.
 
grapey said:
Thank you everyone! (Vidya, your Boo is ADORABLE.) I am ditching the Science Diet m/d and back to the Purina DM. I will also mix in some of the low-carb "regular" stuff from 9 Lives and Friskies. I have Friskies Ocean Whitefish and Tuna, 9 Lives Prime Grill w/Beef, and a couple others I think.

I fed her some of the Prime Grill last night as an apology for poking her ear three times last night :( and this morning, after eating more DM--before her shot--her BG was 251. So I'm already feeling better.

Corn starch??? Nasty!! If I continue to see a difference off the m/d, you better believe I'm telling my vet.
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Just remember that some diabetics are carb sensitive and cannot have any carbs from grains, even if the food is below 10%. Bandit is one of these cats--he can't eat Purina DM or Friskies because even though they are both about 7%, they contain oat fiber and rice, respectively. However, he can eat grain free foods at 8 and 9 % carbs with no increase to his blood sugar. Not every cat is like this, but some are. Just something to watch out for and it might be advantageous to stick to things under 7%.

Also, make sure you're reading the 9 Lives ingredients and not getting flavors that contain SOY. Soy is not good for the thyroid and is thought to contribute to hyperthyroidism. I know many of the 9 Lives have soy, including some low carb ones. I believe the Prime Grill w/Beef is one of the non-soy ones.
 
Julia & Bandit said:
grapey said:
Thank you everyone! (Vidya, your Boo is ADORABLE.) I am ditching the Science Diet m/d and back to the Purina DM. I will also mix in some of the low-carb "regular" stuff from 9 Lives and Friskies. I have Friskies Ocean Whitefish and Tuna, 9 Lives Prime Grill w/Beef, and a couple others I think.

I fed her some of the Prime Grill last night as an apology for poking her ear three times last night :( and this morning, after eating more DM--before her shot--her BG was 251. So I'm already feeling better.

Corn starch??? Nasty!! If I continue to see a difference off the m/d, you better believe I'm telling my vet.
Click to expand...

Just remember that some diabetics are carb sensitive and cannot have any carbs from grains, even if the food is below 10%. Bandit is one of these cats--he can't eat Purina DM or Friskies because even though they are both about 7%, they contain oat fiber and rice, respectively. However, he can eat grain free foods at 8 and 9 % carbs with no increase to his blood sugar. Not every cat is like this, but some are. Just something to watch out for.

Also, make sure you're reading the 9 Lives ingredients and not getting flavors that contain SOY. Soy is not good for the thyroid and is thought to contribute to hyperthyroidism. I know many of the 9 Lives have soy, including some low carb ones.
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You know, I wonder if maybe Ruby has that issue with grains. Looking back on her SS, Sunday night she was going a bit low so I have her the FF Chunky and that didn't seem to do much so I gave her the Friskies. That took her right up, pretty much like the gravy would do. Its the first time I've given her any of that. Hmm....definitely something to think about.
 
Special Kitty (Walmart) and Sophistacat (PetSmart) have foods that are pretty much the same as Friskies except they don't contain rice and are very low carb. Why not try one of those instead? I think they might even be cheaper than the Friskies. All of the Fancy Feast Classics are also Grain free and very low carb (under 5%).
 
Julia & Bandit said:
Special Kitty (Walmart) and Sophistacat (PetSmart) have foods that are pretty much the same as Friskies except they don't contain rice and are very low carb. Why not try one of those instead? I think they might even be cheaper than the Friskies. All of the Fancy Feast Classics are also Grain free and very low carb (under 5%).
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Is Sophistacat the one they just rebranded as "Grreat Choice"?
 
arozeboom said:
Julia & Bandit said:
Special Kitty (Walmart) and Sophistacat (PetSmart) have foods that are pretty much the same as Friskies except they don't contain rice and are very low carb. Why not try one of those instead? I think they might even be cheaper than the Friskies. All of the Fancy Feast Classics are also Grain free and very low carb (under 5%).
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Is Sophistacat the one they just rebranded as "Grreat Choice"?
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Yup! I keep forgetting it has a new name now.
 
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