cant regulate....confused

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darcylynn

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Hello,
I am trying to regulate my newly diabetic...he has started fancy feast classics. His insulin was 3 units twice a day...with fancy feast there are days I have had to go down to 2 units or 2 1/2 units because of the lower carbs. I had a huge scare tonight...came home and he was at 45!! My seymore was over 300 this morning...having a hard time regulating!!
I bought fancy feast classic, a variety of flavors. Does the classics vary by carbs by variety? Please help!

I recently lost a seymores brother this past week that was diabetic for 5 years and was easily regulated on hard science diet kitten. Help! Very confused on why Seymore has been so hard to regulate
 
darcylynn said:
Hello,
I am trying to regulate my newly diabetic...he has started fancy feast classics. His insulin was 3 units twice a day...with fancy feast there are days I have had to go down to 2 units or 2 1/2 units because of the lower carbs. I had a huge scare tonight...came home and he was at 45!! My seymore was over 300 this morning...having a hard time regulating!!
I bought fancy feast classic, a variety of flavors. Does the classics vary by carbs by variety? Please help!

I recently lost a seymores brother this past week that was diabetic for 5 years and was easily regulated on hard science diet kitten. Help! Very confused on why Seymore has been so hard to regulate
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Couple of questions:
What insulin are you giving, when did you start insulin and what was the starting dose?
It's not possible to say much without knowing the insulin given because how you dose will depend on the type.

Do you have any other numbers? The 45 is not terribly low as one of my non-diabetics usually tests around the 40s, but if it's new for your cat, then the 300 would possibly be a bounce from the low 45. The bounce could be due to the insulin dose being too high now with the diet change.

If you have changed to better food, wet low carb, then you would likely need to give much less insulin.... 3u is a pretty high dose and most cats need much less than that amount.
 
darcylynn said:
!! My seymore was over 300 this morning...having a hard time regulating!!
I bought fancy feast classic, a variety of flavors. Does the classics vary by carbs by variety? Please help!
Click to expand...

The FF Classics do vary in carbs but all are under 10%. Check Binky's chart to see how many carbs are in the varieties you are feeding. You may want to stick to the foods that are around the same number of carbs, like 5 to 7%, instead of a wider range.

ECID :smile: Some cats are easy to regulated, other cats are not. It all depends on the cat, what state the pancrease is in, food, the insulin, the dose, etc.

And regulation doesn't happen right away. It takes time to achieve. Some cats can be reglated, with or without insulin, fairly quickly. Others may take a few months and, maybe even trying different insulins, to be regulated.

IMO, while reglation is great don't just look at the bg numbers. You have to look at the whole cat :smile: As long as the cat is happy and otherwise healthy, it's ok for bgs to be in the diabetic range as long as the cat is getting insulin and you are trying to find that magic dose that will get bgs closer to the non-diabetic range.
 
One of the things that can complicate this sugar dance is rebound. When you get a number like 45, Seymore's body can see that as too low and release glucose. That artificially raises the number back up into the 300s. If you shoot your normal dose into that bounce, it can cause another low number and start the cycle all over again. It's a confusing concept but common: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Somogyi_rebound

Let us know what insulin you are using. Then you might go over to the forum for that particular insulin and get advice on dosing. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=5
 
Im sorry I didnt state the insulin...he is on prozinc. I just got up this morning and he was 418. I have kept him now in 130 to 288 the last two days. I am playing a marathon with him, he got 1 1/2 units last night at 7pm. Now that I seen the number this am at 418, I gave 3 units. 3 units is the highest he has gotten in the past. I could tell he was not feeling good at 418!! My poor seymore had 2 seizures from being high. I am so nervous about his numbers!
 
Part of the problem is that you keep changing the dose and changing at large amounts. My guess is now that you are feeding the lower carb foods, the insulin needs have dropped dramatically.

However, given that you were dosing at 3 units, then 1 unit, then 2 1/2 units, you are all over the place. My suggestion is that you start over the dosing at 1 unit and after several days of tests, then if necessary you adjust the insulin BUT in very small increments, such as 1/2 unit or even 1/4 unit.
 
I think he is bouncing from high to low numbers, probably because your dose is generally too high. I explained in my post a few posts back.

I think you should post in the PZI forum and get advice about a reduction in dose. Everyone there used or uses your insulin. You can see how their cats are responding and look at some spreadsheets where bouncing (rebound) has happened.
 
Hi there & welcome. I'm Jenn & my cat is Baxter. Baxter is on ProZinc it's been right at 6 months since being DX.
You need to keep some consistently in the dosing of the insulin. Starting with a lower dose & holding the dose for about 5 days 12 hrs apart.

Please come over to the PZI insulin support board. There are many experience memebers who can help you more with dosing, advice & suggestions. So come on over.

One other thing are you testing for ketones?

See you in PZI.
 
Hi Darcy,
First I wanted to say that I'm very sorry to hear that you lost Seymour's brother recently. You mentioned that Seymour could sense that his brother was gone, and that may also have something to do with how he's been acting the past few days. My cats seem to grieve at times. In fact, while Bob was developing diabetes, he'd walk around the house crying a lot. He'd recently lost his sister, and I thought all the crying was because of that, when actually it was because he was sick and getting worse.

Prior to diagnosis, was Seymour eating the same dry food that his brother had been eating? The FF classics are a good choice, and I think all the classics variety flavors are under 5% on Binky's list.

Can you explain a little more about this:?
My poor seymore had 2 seizures from being high. I am so nervous about his numbers!
Click to expand...
Can you describe the seizures and what sort of numbers he had when they happened? Usually the seizures are associated with really low numbers...

The numbers that you have gotten, what time or times during the cycles have they been tested? Are those the preshot numbers (the 130-288 numbers). Was the 45 in the middle of the cycle? And was the 418 at shot time?

It is sometimes okay to shoot different doses based on the numbers, but usually that is done after you have a large amount of data collected so you "know" more or less what to expect from a dose. Also, usually when that is done, the dose amounts are not drastically different. Right now, I understand what you are trying to do, but you're sort of throwing darts at a dart board and that will make it hard to figure out which doses work and which ones don't. Unfortunately, the results of a dose change are not immediate most of the time, so just one cycle can't give you conclusive results. In other words, shooting 2u on a 300 BG today won't necessarily give you the same results it gave you yesterday, or tomorrow.
We can help with all this stuff! Also, please understand that this takes time to figure out. I think the way it's usually stated here is "this is a marathon, not a sprint".

Carl
 
Hello Carl
Seymores seizures were dramatic...full body convulsions that last about a minute each, this happend before he started getting treatment for diabetes. The vet didnt realize he was diabetic soon enough....seymore was running in 500's and higher when these happend. My baby that recently passed was starting slowly on fancy feast, now i have seymore almost completely only eating ff classics. Seymore was diagnosed with diabetes I believe about 2 months ago and he is getting home tests. The high number 418 was preshot 7am. The 45 was 5 hours after shot. I am all mixed up, so I am wondering if I should go back to one unit and work from there, especially now that he is on ff daily. i am also having problems with muscle twitching with seymore,.....he has them high and lower numbers...anything I can do to help that?

Darcy
 
If I'm reading this right, you shot 3u on that 418 reading, right? And he dropped all the way to 45?

I am all mixed up, so I am wondering if I should go back to one unit and work from there, especially now that he is on ff daily.
Click to expand...

Personally, I think that is a great idea. If he's strictly on low carb canned, dropping the dose is a very safe and smart thing to do. The best thing would be to drop to 1u and stay on that dose for at least three days in a row so that you can see what it does. Keeping the dose the same just provides a "constant" to the equation. It's very hard to make sense of things when you switch the dose often. What we look for are patterns in the numbers and the only way to establish a pattern is to keep something as a constant. Just continue to test before every shot, and get tests in the middle when you can, and we can help you figure this out.

Carl
 
The seizures from high numbers are just something I've never read about here. I am not sure if anyone else has experienced the same problem. Usually the seizures are mentioned from really low numbers.
The muscle twitches are odd too. Maybe post a new thread just asking for feedback on muscle twitches. They might not be related to just the diabetes, and perhaps other people have seen that with their kitties for non-diabetes related conditions.

Carl
 
Thank you carl for talking with me! seymore has been doing pretty good in the last 2 days on 1 unit....so far highest number is 189! I heard something about low potassium in cats that cause twitching.....so i will have to research more. I also need to learn how to do my own graphs/curves.
 
Hey, Darcy -

My Hershey is on ProZinc, too, just marked his 4-month anniversary on it. I remember how scary it was in the beginning and know how frustrating it is to want to see immediate results. When you come over to ProZinc, you'll hear us take turns lamenting the need for patience when we want results...NOW! ;-)

You've already met some SUPER people and gotten some TERRIFIC advice. I have to agree that I think starting over with a low dose sounds like a good plan, especially since you've changed to all wet food. Entering your data on a spread sheet will be helpful, too, so when you ask questions it'll give us something to refer to.

Take care and hope to see you on the PZI forum -

Libby (and Hershey, too!)
 
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