Can someone help? Buff's first home test is 447
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Gator & H (GA)
Very Active Member
Buff-puff,
Give insulin. With PZI there is no reason to withhold food. Free feeding is the best with PZI. If you kitty is overweight then the closest approximate you can manage [most likely with a timed feeder] is best. I put water in the food to keep it from getting dry and crusty, others freeze the food into cubes then put it out and let it thaw during the day.
Also I know you have your hands full but please start a spreadsheet and profile as instructed in the Tech Support Forum [at the top in the stickies] here:
viewforum.php?f=6
This will help us help you best.
Also if you haven't already, please read all the resource in the sticky at the top of this forum especially the Start Low Go Slow link. Also please read about doing curves:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-minicurve.htm
http://www.felinediabetes.com/dummies.htm
And there are a bunch of other reading linked on the main felinediabetes.com page.
But good for you for home testing!! You are on the right path now. Just keep reading, reading, reading. :smile:
Give insulin. With PZI there is no reason to withhold food. Free feeding is the best with PZI. If you kitty is overweight then the closest approximate you can manage [most likely with a timed feeder] is best. I put water in the food to keep it from getting dry and crusty, others freeze the food into cubes then put it out and let it thaw during the day.
Also I know you have your hands full but please start a spreadsheet and profile as instructed in the Tech Support Forum [at the top in the stickies] here:
viewforum.php?f=6
This will help us help you best.
Also if you haven't already, please read all the resource in the sticky at the top of this forum especially the Start Low Go Slow link. Also please read about doing curves:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-minicurve.htm
http://www.felinediabetes.com/dummies.htm
And there are a bunch of other reading linked on the main felinediabetes.com page.
But good for you for home testing!! You are on the right path now. Just keep reading, reading, reading. :smile:
Thanks so much for your help. This forum is helping me keep my sanity. I waited the vet-recommended 30 minutes and gave insulin. I was also told by vet to only feed twice/day.
Before meal 447
After meal 474
I'll check again an hour after insulin, then do I check every hour or 2?
I work from home and can tend to her whenever she needs me, so keeping the food fresh won't be a problem at all, I'll just open a fresh can, which is usually how it goes when she sits in the kitchen and stares at me with pleading eyes. :mrgreen: I do like the freeze/thaw method, though. That will definitely come in handy whenever I have to leave her for a few hours.
My brain isn't functioning well lately but I'll do the spreadsheet as soon as I can. I looked it over last night but couldn't comprehend. I'll try again when I'm able to think straight. Thanks for the link :smile:
UPDATE: 1 hour after injection coming down slowly - now 451
Before meal 447
After meal 474
I'll check again an hour after insulin, then do I check every hour or 2?
I work from home and can tend to her whenever she needs me, so keeping the food fresh won't be a problem at all, I'll just open a fresh can, which is usually how it goes when she sits in the kitchen and stares at me with pleading eyes. :mrgreen: I do like the freeze/thaw method, though. That will definitely come in handy whenever I have to leave her for a few hours.
My brain isn't functioning well lately but I'll do the spreadsheet as soon as I can. I looked it over last night but couldn't comprehend. I'll try again when I'm able to think straight. Thanks for the link :smile:
UPDATE: 1 hour after injection coming down slowly - now 451
Gator & H (GA)
Very Active Member
EDIT: You can test as much as you like. The critical thing is to test before every pre shot or "PS" as it is known here as well as the "nadir" especially while you are starting out. And since you are just starting you should be doing as many mini-curves as you can which are explained in the links I posted. Full curves are also good every now and then. One of your objectives should be to identify and capture when your kitty's "nadir" typically occurs [usually around +6 with PZI]. Once you get your info in a spread sheet then it will help others guide you better to testing at the right times.
Also I just posted some testing tips here:
viewtopic.php?p=141860#p141860
Not sure if that may help - but it's another beginner like you so there might be some applicable things to read in there for your situation.
Do you know the reason why the vet recommended 30 min? And only twice per day?
I'm not a vet [and I am just some random dude in some Internet forum] and I hate to disagree with your vet but IMHO, for the otherwise healthy cat, feeding twice per day is not the best strategy for PZI. PZI is a longer acting insulin and free feeding minimizes the effect of food on the curve. One may want to make sure their cat is eating at all before they give insulin, but if you know eating is not an issue then there is no reason to feed then dose. In H's case he has major appetite issues and he will just stop eating when I'm not expecting, but I don't not know what the issues may be in your case.
How does you vet feel about you home testing?
Further, normal cats should eat 10-20 small meals per day [SACN 4thed. Ch. 6 page 4]:
http://www.markmorrisinstitute.org/atta ... ts%20b.pdf
I thought I would also warn that traffic seems a little light in here the past week or so. So if you are in a pickle and need help immediately then do not hesitate to cross post in the main Health Forum.
BTW, Kelly's and Cindy's answer to your cross post question in Health was much better than mine, I just assumed you were giving insulin twice per day at this point?
What is your no shoot level at currently?
Also I just posted some testing tips here:
viewtopic.php?p=141860#p141860
Not sure if that may help - but it's another beginner like you so there might be some applicable things to read in there for your situation.
Do you know the reason why the vet recommended 30 min? And only twice per day?
I'm not a vet [and I am just some random dude in some Internet forum] and I hate to disagree with your vet but IMHO, for the otherwise healthy cat, feeding twice per day is not the best strategy for PZI. PZI is a longer acting insulin and free feeding minimizes the effect of food on the curve. One may want to make sure their cat is eating at all before they give insulin, but if you know eating is not an issue then there is no reason to feed then dose. In H's case he has major appetite issues and he will just stop eating when I'm not expecting, but I don't not know what the issues may be in your case.
How does you vet feel about you home testing?
Further, normal cats should eat 10-20 small meals per day [SACN 4thed. Ch. 6 page 4]:
http://www.markmorrisinstitute.org/atta ... ts%20b.pdf
I thought I would also warn that traffic seems a little light in here the past week or so. So if you are in a pickle and need help immediately then do not hesitate to cross post in the main Health Forum.
BTW, Kelly's and Cindy's answer to your cross post question in Health was much better than mine, I just assumed you were giving insulin twice per day at this point?
What is your no shoot level at currently?
Thanks for linking your tips. I haven't had a lot of time to search out info so I really appreciate it.
Vet said a twice daily schedule would help insulin work best. When I voiced concern that she would be hungry (and she is), vet told me adult cats don't need to eat just whenever and she would get used to it. But Buffy eats small portions several times a day, always has. So she's eating her regular amount (less than 1/4 of 5.5 ounce can) - then an hour later she's looking for her food, then comes pleading with me. And honestly, I've been giving her small portions in between her twice/day feedings, just not enough apparently.
I understand what you're saying and really don't know what vet's thinking is. The only explanation I can think of is vet may have originally thought of prescribing a different insulin, but I was sent to a different office because they were out. Vet at that office did ask me how she was used to being fed, and I said when hungry. Vet said fine, went and got insulin and sent me on my way. Curves were then done at the original office.
She doesn't know yet. Buff had been there all day and was not happy. However, I did mention to one of the girls up front when I took her that morning, and she didn't know why I would want to do that, mentioned something about how they get it from the vein for curves and how would I accomplish that -- so I didn't say anything more. If vet balks when I bring it up, it may be time to move on.
I agree. When I took her for her curves last week, I took food and a bowl thinking they would want her to eat as she normally does.
Vet said a twice daily schedule would help insulin work best. When I voiced concern that she would be hungry (and she is), vet told me adult cats don't need to eat just whenever and she would get used to it. But Buffy eats small portions several times a day, always has. So she's eating her regular amount (less than 1/4 of 5.5 ounce can) - then an hour later she's looking for her food, then comes pleading with me. And honestly, I've been giving her small portions in between her twice/day feedings, just not enough apparently.
I understand what you're saying and really don't know what vet's thinking is. The only explanation I can think of is vet may have originally thought of prescribing a different insulin, but I was sent to a different office because they were out. Vet at that office did ask me how she was used to being fed, and I said when hungry. Vet said fine, went and got insulin and sent me on my way. Curves were then done at the original office.
She doesn't know yet. Buff had been there all day and was not happy. However, I did mention to one of the girls up front when I took her that morning, and she didn't know why I would want to do that, mentioned something about how they get it from the vein for curves and how would I accomplish that -- so I didn't say anything more. If vet balks when I bring it up, it may be time to move on.
I agree. When I took her for her curves last week, I took food and a bowl thinking they would want her to eat as she normally does.
Gator & H (GA)
Very Active Member
This sounds to me like a typical situation were you are going to have to do your own research and come to your mind about what is best your Kitty. You are the best advocate. I've been at the diabetes care game not just over a year and I'm still learning. So it is hard to expect a vet that is supposed to know so much more than just DM to have a clue about the intricacies of it.
Information is power.
There is a super steep learning curve to all of this and I know how far up the peak the destination must seem, but you'll be there soon enough. And once you get your head around the basics then tings kind of level off and you get a respite. But your best thing right now is to learn everything you can.
Information is power.
There is a super steep learning curve to all of this and I know how far up the peak the destination must seem, but you'll be there soon enough. And once you get your head around the basics then tings kind of level off and you get a respite. But your best thing right now is to learn everything you can.
Gator & H (GA)
Very Active Member
OK good, your "no shoot" is the pre shot or "PS" level that you will not give insulin at. If Buff's PS is at or below this number then you will skip insulin for that cycle and give it in 12 hours. For beginners this PS level is usually set at 200. As you progress and you get more data you will probably drop this number [as well as probably modifying the dose down just a hair for the next shot] to 180 or 150 and sometimes even lower [H's NS level at this point is about 90]. So, my recommendation to you is to not shoot insulin currently if Buff's PS is at or below 200. I just wanted to make this clear since it is a safety thing. The 200 give you a lot of head room so don't freak out if Buff is at 200 
- just don't give insulin and make sure to post. As I said at that point then you will probably want to modify the dose down just a hair [by like .2u] and see how things go. Eventually when you feel appropriate you will probably want to reduce that NS level down too.
- just don't give insulin and make sure to post. As I said at that point then you will probably want to modify the dose down just a hair [by like .2u] and see how things go. Eventually when you feel appropriate you will probably want to reduce that NS level down too.I was a little late checking - after 2 hours she's at 312. Her better mood tells me they're dropping before I even test. Almost time to check again.
Am I understanding....Let her free feed -
Test at scheduled injection times and if 200 or below skip injection to avoid hypoglycemia.
Am I understanding....Let her free feed -
Test at scheduled injection times and if 200 or below skip injection to avoid hypoglycemia.
Gator & H (GA)
Very Active Member
Good, you're a quick learner ;-) . I apologize if I'm laying down too many laws at this point. The NS thing is the most important thing at this point. I know you have a lot to absorb. I wish we has some other eyeballs in here right now, sometimes I'm not the most graceful :smile: .Buff-puff said:
Gator & H (GA)
Very Active Member
You know that feeling when the final is finally over? You're almost there and there's not as much to lean as your typical final. You'll be good to go. :smile: Just keep plugging away.Buff-puff said:
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