Can I give insulin off schedule?

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Danielle Hrubiak

Danielle Hrubiak

Member Since 2015
This AM Abby's PS number was 124. I fed her and now 3 hrs later she is in 300s. I should have just given her a smaller dose at breakfast but I held off. My question is, can I give her any insulin now? Even if just half or so to bring her down a bit?
 
With ProZinc, yes. In fact, you can develop a sliding scale where the data you collect can guide dosing based on pre-shot tests and amount of drop at various ranges.

As an example, 2.2 units is too much for a pre-shot of 288 as you wound up in the greens and having to feed her to prop up the numbers last night. Same thing for Friday morning.
She bounced big time from going low Thursday night and Friday day, in addition to the stress you mentioned. It can take up to 3 days for that to resolve, but she's already come down from it.

She seems to nadir around +5, so that's where you want to watch her closely.
 
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Oh wow. I may need help doing that. Lol. But for now, what do you suggest I dose her at? 30 mins ago her BG was 394. She's about 4 hours post her normal injection time.
 
And use the 300+ number as her pre-shot number, with a note to the right that you shot late 3 hours.
OR
You can manually put a slash in the pre-shot cell and then enter the 300+ number, or else copy the turquoise cell to the right of the cell where you enter the 300+ number.
 
Okay great. I'll get her the insulin now. Thank you!! Yes my hope is to stay on track for evening shot.
This evening I will post with her PMPS number and if you're around maybe you can help guide my dosage based on reading.
It would be about 645PM EST.

Thanks so much for the help!
 
Homework: over the last week or two, review the pre-shot vs the dose vs the amount of drop, and jot down your thoughts about doses for these various pre-shot ranges.
350-399
300-349
250-299
200-249
150-199
It can help to make a sorted list of the pre-shot values, the dose, and the drop by +5 or so.
 
I will certainly do that!

So today her AMPS was 393. I gave her 1.8 units (4 hrs late). +1.5- 366. +3.75-324. +6-291. And her PMPS was 271.

What do you suggest I give her for her PM dose? Maybe 1.8?
 
If possible, and when the same pre-shot range is happening, give it about 3 cycles (3 shot periods) to 'settle'
the dose a bit.
ie, go with the 1.8 again.

She was still falling at pre-shot, so maybe test without feeding in about 20-30 minutes to make sure she is rising before you shoot.

Even if she drops the same total amount, a total of 120 mg/dL, she'll still be safe.
 
For yesterday evening I gave her the 1.8 units. This was her cycle.

PMPS- 271-- 1.8 units
+2.25- 259
+4- 86
+5.5- 39
+6.25- 54
+6.5- 52

Just now her AMPS was 86.

I need to leave briefly and will not be giving insulin right now. What do you suggest I do about this low number for today and in the future? What is the protocol with insulin for this low PS numbers? None at all? But I know she will be going up in a bit so would I give just a little insulin?

Please let me know what I should do regarding a PS number like I got today...

Thanks!!!
 
In the future, if you get a number you're not sure about shooting, stall, don't feed, and then retest about 20 minutes later....by going ahead and feeding her, we don't know if she would have come up on her own (so would know the insulin was wearing off) or if the increase in the number is due to the food you just gave her.

Since she dropped into the 30's yesterday, she definitely needs a reduced dose, but I don't use ProZinc so am not real familiar with it. With her being so low this morning, if you're not able to be with her to monitor, I think I'd skip it ...just call it a furshot

Also, just noticed that you've said you gave 1.8 but your spreadsheet says 2.2....which one is right?
 
Hmmnn.
288 to 37 is a 251 mg/dL drop in only 5 hours.
To stay safely above 50 mg/dL, a max drop of 200 would have been sufficient.
A way to look at it is that about 80% of the dose you gave her (200/250) might work better.
This would be about 0.8 * 1.8 or 2.0 = 1.4 - 1.6 units for a pre-shot of 280-300. and you'd want to drop it a bit more for a lower pre-shot.
Cats may vary in how a dose works day to day.

ProZinc protocol
 
Chris & China said:
In the future, if you get a number you're not sure about shooting, stall, don't feed, and then retest about 20 minutes later....by going ahead and feeding her, we don't know if she would have come up on her own (so would know the insulin was wearing off) or if the increase in the number is due to the food you just gave her.

Since she dropped into the 30's yesterday, she definitely needs a reduced dose, but I don't use ProZinc so am not real familiar with it. With her being so low this morning, if you're not able to be with her to monitor, I think I'd skip it ...just call it a furshot

Also, just noticed that you've said you gave 1.8 but your spreadsheet says 2.2....which one is right?
Click to expand...


I have been giving 2.2, but reduced to 1.8 yesterday because she's going too low.

Okay. I will stall feeding next time and recheck. I just need to create a little table of what dose to give within what range so I'm not left feeling helpless and praying for instant responses at insulin time with iffy PS numbers.
 
She is bouncing from going too low (sorry 'bout that!).
You may shoot through the bounce, ie give the same dose this time then reduce, or go with the new, lower dose and wait for her to come down, usually within 3 days or so.
 
No worries. Certainly not your fault.

Okay great. I think I'll shoot through bounce and see how she does.
How often should I test her this afternoon? I feel like I'm over testing the poor girl.
And should I also give 1.8 this evening too or wait to see what her number is?

I'm nervous about not knowing how much to give her at the moment of insulin, according to what her PS is. Will the homework you gave me help you figure this out for me? I would love to have a go to chart that would help me adjust her dosage depending on what her BG reading is.


And is this a good sign that she is going too low with current dose-thus requiring a decrease? Or could this just be a stage she is going through and the dose could need to be increased again in a short while?

She wasn't showing improvement with 2.0 units or below so that is why I bumped her up. Now it seems like 2.2 is too much? She's been a difficult one to figure out...
 
Danielle Hrubiak said:
I'm nervous about not knowing how much to give her at the moment of insulin, according to what her PS is. Will the homework you gave me help you figure this out for me? I would love to have a go to chart that would help me adjust her dosage depending on what her BG reading is.


And is this a good sign that she is going too low with current dose-thus requiring a decrease? Or could this just be a stage she is going through and the dose could need to be increased again in a short while?

She wasn't showing improvement with 2.0 units or below so that is why I bumped her up. Now it seems like 2.2 is too much? She's been a difficult one to figure out...
Click to expand...

You could consider restarting at one unit, get some numbers mid cycle and then increase by .25 as needed. That might be easier than trying to decided how much to reduce….

A chart would be nice. It's that Every Cat is Different thing that messes up this sugar dance.

Yes, needing less insulin is a great sign.
 
If the glucose is decreasing at shot time, you stall for 30 minutes and re-test.
If increasing and over 150, probably safe to shoot something, though less looks better right now
If increasing and not over 150, AND you'd be able to monitor, you could shoot something, maybe just a token dose
- if not able to monitor, stall again and re-test, or skip​
If not increasing, probably skip
If decreasing, skip

When in doubt, err on the side of safety
 
Perfect. I will see how this goes. Thank you very much!!

By the way... Does it sound crazy that I strongly believe that the switch from FF to Wellness is a great cause in her lower numbers?
I recently read a review by another sugar cat momma and she swears that the wellness chicken formula cured her cat of diabetes--and it no longer takes insulin now.
Is this possible?!
And I also notice that when I give Abilene her mid cycle meals--she doesn't go really high like she seemed to have with the FF.
Maybe I'm nuts, or maybe I'm just trying to see specific change and make certain associations...I don't know --but just an observation.
 
ECID - each cat is different. If something seems to work for yours, stopping it means the condition worsens, and restarting it improves things again, it becomes pretty conclusive that the change caused the improvement.
 
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