Callie Mae 5/11 amps to low to shoot again!

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totallybeachin

totallybeachin

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Well, yesterday Callie Mae never made it to the safe to shoot zone until just about 1hr past normal shoot time. No biggy.
Well, I forgot to change the alarm, so off it went at 6:30 and I decided to go ahead and check her and give her breakfast. Well, that +11 reading was 132. An hour later, her new amps time, 192. Ok, at least we're heading in the right direction. 30 more minutes, 183.
Why would she be going back down? Not that I mind, just wondering if this is normal? Just to be clear, I did not give her any insulin.
 
Good morning!
I am not an expert at all, but from what I have read I believe that is a good sign!!!
I know it makes your job a lot harder
but I will keep my fingers crossed for you thta this will continue!

Denise and Shakes
 
So, if she went down after eating, this may mean her pancreas has decided to wake up and do some work. It is also within the 20% variance so it could be that it is bascially the same number and she is just surfing along - which is also good. I am assuming you do not have the U100 needles yet? But you should be able to eyeball .5, right? I think I would give .5, after testing to make sure she is headed up, not down. (You do not want to shoot a number that is going down) The food may have caused her bg level to go down, but I assume it will start heading back up. Waiting will not hurt, particularly if you are going to give half the usual dose, nor will shooting in this 180 - 200 range.

This is the most difficult part of this sugar dance (other than that horrible first few days when you have to learn everything all at once) because you are going to be shooting reduced doses and watching her numbers carefully. Plan to get some tests in today.

Here is some info on mini dosing:
When your cat is consistently in numbers too low to shoot at shot time and in numbers in the 100 range and below during the cycle, you can consider micro dosing. This process should be guided on the forum by experienced members and will require more frequent testing.

You may be shooting at times other than the 12/12 schedule, when the blood glucose levels rise enough to require a small dose of insulin. You will need to pick a number somewhere near the 150 range at which you will plan to shoot, being sure that the number is indeed rising. The dose at these low numbers will vary with each cat and its patterns, so advice should be solicited. But you may be considering doses below .25 and even considering a “drop” of insulin. At this point, U100 needles and the conversion chart will be necessary.

It is important during this period to offer small frequent meals. You may want to experiment with the lowest carb foods to help bring down the numbers, staying away from seafood more than once or twice a week.
 
Thanks Sue.
I did get some U100 syringes, but evidently, I got the wrong ones. I guess I needed the ones that go to 30 cuz they are easier to use and what I have go to 100. Each line represents 2 and it counts in 10.
i.e. 10 ----20----30----40 and so on.
The conversion chart says for a .5 unit dose of U40 I would want to fill to the 1 line on the U100 syringe. I am not comfortable enough to try and figure that out on these syringes. I am going to try returning them today.
In the meantime, I am going to check her again at 9:00. That will be an hour after her last check and see which way she is heading.
If I had to, I would try eyeballing a half dose in my U40 syringes.
I'll post back my new numbers when they come in.
 
You should be able to do .5 on the U40 syringes. And we are talking tiny doses so it isn't the end of the world if you are a little skinny or a little fat with the dose. You will become an expert soon on the U100 syringes. The other PZIers here routinely do .8, .6. , .4, .2 - there is even a way to measure a drop of insulin....
 
:RAHCAT This is great!

Tricky. She is such a new diabetic that we want to be careful, but we don't want you to lose momentum. I think I would suggest you take tests today, and if and when she gets up into the 200 range, shoot a skinny .5 It will throw you off any kind of a schedule, but you may need to shoot on an as needed basis for awhile. Hope others will jump in and see if they agree.

Hopefully it won't be for long! (anti-jinx)

Have you gotten back to your vet yet? I would love to hear that conversation! :mrgreen:
 
Yes, tricky indeed. I have to leave the house for about 3 hours. :?
Haven't spoke to the vet yet. He wanted me to call later today with some readings based on 9 units.
Wait till he hears THIS episode!!
I am going to check her again around 10'ish and see where she's at. I am not going to sweat this. I repeat, I am not going to sweat this!
*looks around to make sure no one see's me sweating*
If she's heading back up, I'll eyeball the .5, if she's still heading down I will check her as soon as I walk back in the door. I will post my 10:00 numbers before I leave.
 
You are doing great. This is a sweaty palms part, but you don't have to "cure" her all at once. It's a process - steps forward, steps back, but going in a good direction.

Just stop and think about how much you have learned about FD in a week!
 
So basically holding steady. That's good. I would just do my errands and then test again when you come back. Maybe leave out some food so she can graze. (At this point, we can assume that food will bring her numbers down or at least keep them surfing along.) No worries! She is doing great.
 
YAWNNNN!!!!! gud mornins...
147 self come down....oh yeah, those words are speakin for themselves alright.
kitty goin otj kitty goin otj
be verra verra careful with this one.
and i'm the 'fast loose' one allegedly of the group
but i KNOW this much....kitty goin otj is one that keeps you on your toes.
careful, slow n go.
HUGS
 
Well, things gettin' better and better.
Numbers for 1'ish
are in
119
She's still coming down.
Received a free sample of Nature's Variety Instinct grain free chicken formula from a local mom and pop specialty pet store. It's a 3oz can and while I didn't leave anything out for her to graze on while I was gone, I did give her 1/2 the can after I tested her. She ate it all, and now I'm having buyer's remorse in thinking since I don't know how good that is, I shouldn't have given it to her. But, it's only the one can that I have, so it's not like it going to become her diet or anything. And if it causes her to start rising, well, that's ok with the numbers she's been putting out today. Did I mention she hasn't had ANY juice!!!
Oh yea, I know I did, but it's worth repeating!!
Gonna check her again in an hour or so.
Will keep you all updated as the day progresses!!
 
"She ate it all, and now I'm having buyer's remorse in thinking since I don't know how good that is, I shouldn't have given it to her."

I have to go to work, but if you post the ingredient list, I'm sure someone could tell you if it might cause a spike. Words like fructose, sucrose, starch (eg. modified corn-starch), all generally mean added sugar.
 
Nothing like any of that listed on there, however, it does have cranberries, pumpkin, tomato, blueberries, broccoli, cabbage, kale an parsley.
Man, I can be stupid sometimes. Not sure what % of all that would makes up, but, it has natural sugars. Who ever decided that cats need fruits and vegetables?
I was just so excited when I got her numbers and I knew I hadn't left anything out for her and I thought of the conversation I had with the store owner about low carb and all that, I never gave it a second thought that there would be FRUIT in the cat food.
It was only half of a 3oz can, so I'm going to try and not be to hard on myself.
I have to keep in mind how much progress I have made for the sake of my baby over the course of just 1 week.
If I wouldn't have found this board and researched as much as I did, hell, she would have received 9 units this morning!
Naw, this will be ok.
 
That's exactly right - look at the big picture. One can of anything isn't going to make a lasting difference. It sounds like Wellness or one of those "quality" foods that they make for people to feel good about - I am pretty sure cats don't need cranberries. But I don't see anything that is super high carb. No worries.
 
Maisey & I just want to say WOW!!! flip_cat
And we'd love to be a fly on the wall at the Vets!
I think they need a FDMB flier!
 
hey Callie Mae.....you makin your mama bean soooo proud! dancing_cat dancing_cat dancing_cat dancing_cat dancing_cat
 
Spot check at 5:15
highest all day--180
It's almost dinner time so I'm thinking they will go back downward after she eats.
I don't know though. I don't make sense of to much of it yet. Still so early in the game for her. (and me)
Or is it dinner will make her come up?
Called the vet around 5:30'ish. A tech or someone answered the phone. Dr. was with a client. Said I gave 9U Friday for her pm dose per his instructions but started her on a low carb diet next day and cut the dose to 1unit and has had her at that since then. Went over her numbers a little and told her about Callie's #'s today and that she didn't get any juice, yada, yada, yada....and all that.
She seemed intrigued and said she would let the Dr. know and have him call me if he needed to talk to me.
Guess what.......
He never called.
I really thought he would have called to at least give me an "Atta Boy" or SOMETHING. But, he closes at 6 and it's now 6:15 so I'm not holding my breath. . .
That's okay. I don't need him to tell me I'm doing a good job. I can look at my spreadsheet and I have all of YOU!!!
Gonna test again around 7. That'll be 23 1/2 hrs since last dose.
Oh, and I picked up a bag of the correct U100 syringes today and Walmart wouldn't let me return the box I bought yesterday even though they were never opened. I understand though. They are needles.
 
well sometimes, i've heard...strange as it seems,,,,,dr.s can have very large ego's and don't like it when the patients start succeeding without them. i believe it makes them feel....oh, i don't know....inept?

about the syringes. you can put them up in the supply closet and maybe someone will want them. Maybe pay you the rest over what shipping costs.

lots of peeps share supplies around here.
 
You guys are doing GREAT and it doesn’t matter if the vet says so or not. Kudos to you!
:thumbup :thumbup :thumbup
 
lori and tom said:
about the syringes. you can put them up in the supply closet and maybe someone will want them. Maybe pay you the rest over what shipping costs.

lots of peeps share supplies around here.
Click to expand...
done.
I have offered them for *free*, just pay shipping.
 
Back down we go!!!
159
Should I just let the momentum ride and just keep an eye on her or should I try a mini dose?

Had to add a pic. This has always been one of my favorites.
IMG_0361.jpg
 
beachin i have remember a name disorder...tell me again???
this is a delicate situation.
you could
1. help her along with a micro dose of .2
2. ride it out
I would support you in either endeaver....however if you shoot...you will be testing. and i would never shoot an amps or pmps until an hour or two after the meal...to be sure you are shooting a number that is not falling.
your dilemna is you never know for sure if your shooting a falling number.
 
lori and tom said:
beachin i have remember a name disorder...tell me again???
Click to expand...
NP! It's Angela
lori and tom said:
and. How Gorgouse is Calle Mae!!!!! She is just BEAUTIFUL
Click to expand...
Is that you talking, or is that Tom?
I see him looking!!!! :lol:
You have already been such a tremendous help, but are you able to help me with my
SS?
My finger must have hit something, but the area along the top where I type notes to appear along the side has turned into a slider bar. Only for today. All the other days it is normal. Not sure what happened. I tried "Edit", "Undo" but that didn't make it go back.
Any suggestions?

(EDIT: I take that back, the "formula bar" has turned into a slider on all the days where I have notes, the days that have no notes, it stays a "formula bar")


On the matter of Callie Mae, I'm just going to ride it out. 2 hours past dinner and she's coming down. I'm also going to leave her ears alone until morning. She has done so good today.
 
somebody wrote in her blog "how to treat a diabetic cat' that she suffered from 'pmps envy' it was really a hilarious blog...written by the same girl who wrote the song 'oh pancreas'
shall i link it here so you can all have it...for times when you want some fun feline diabetes reading...and how to maintain sanity as well.
i know you don't get enuf FD during your days and I just want to offer more. :smile: :lol:
 
btw Angela,
Lord Thomas...yes, this is how he wants to be referred to, is....ummmm, so self contained, so incredibly desirable by all the lady cats---that he does not really fawn over them. No, it is quite the other way around. Girl cats tend to lay in front of him and stretch out in that playgirl like pose whilst he may lick a paw and then turn to watch a bird fly by.
He really is quite spectacular, and I do realize you don't know much about him cuz your new here....but it is not worthy of Thomas to assume he is looking at your beauty.
It would be much more reasonable to assume she is gazing at him.
They all do, there is no shame.
If you stick around long enuf, and hang in our community room, you will learn of the legend of Lord Thomas.
 
ok Judy, you asked and you recieved. I gave it it's own subject. Go back to pzi....i'm sure you'll have no trouble finding it.
We should make it the book of the month club and share our thoughts on the various chapters.... :lol:
 
Cheering you guys on, this is SOOOOO awesome, we dearly love a success story!!!!!!! (Tho I think Callie is making the other kitties all jealous & all!)
:RAHCAT

Hijack: Lori I heard your cry the other day for humor... I think we should have a Funny Dose of the Day or something, new thread every day where whoever thinks of it first posts a joke or something and anyone who wants to can pitch in? I can never remember any jokes but I can try to find one now & then!
 
She is back down to 137 after no shot?!? Yippee!

What happens is when you eat it stimulates your pancreas to produce insulin to go to work against the sugar in the food. So in a cat with a sputtering pancreas, eating can bring their #s down. If their pancreas is not ready to do the job, eating may keep them flat but not really getting in the greens, or they can get a spike. If their pancreas is not working at all you will get a spike from food.

At this point I would suggest when you get a reading in diabetic #s (so above 120 say), feed her a little and test in maybe an hour and see where she is. If she has spiked up, then you could give a token dose, maybe 0.2 if she is over 200, or a fat 0 if she is over 180. You can kind of make some judgement calls over time - if she stays in the 150s for a few hours and doesn't come down any she probably needs a drop of insulin. If she zips up to 180 but then comes right back down to 120, she probably doesn't need a drop.

Often when going OTJ they will ride in the low 100s for a couple days, then drop down to the greens on their own. I wouldn't withhold insulin on that basis, but at the same time I wouldn't rush to give her any if she is bringing #s down nicely on her own. If she gets consistent over 180 and does not seem to be coming down much on her own, then I'd give a small dose.
 
I wish I knew how to search out the LOL cats I want to copy and paste.
I don't know how to post the image...just the link. which i hate. i want the image.

Yes yes yes...LOL cats and don't hold back on something funny about your cat...or better still you and your cat.

won't hurt us to laugh at this dire beasties machine that is running our lives.
 
OK is anyone besides me intrigued that Callie got a U-curve today on no insulin? Makes me wonder if maybe I read too much into the #s when insulin is given, if you can get that kind of pattern on no insulin. Hmmm, makes ya think. :idea:

I think all jokes are good. I've posted pics before but I don't remember how. Donna should know, right?
 
I think the U curve is us seeing the pancreas working after breakfast and wearing/weaning off toward the afternoon.

There is a big difference between 1u and no insulin. The more you can micro dose toward the end (otj) the more solid the otj experience will be. It is all about supporting the fledgling pancreas as much as possible until it is *fully* able to handle things on its own. Seeing a 180 today tells me that it isn't completely ready yet and this otj round might be shorter because of that. I really advocate giving a 0.2u or 0.5u dose and adjust according to the nadir at this point rather than the preshot (common sense should be used here.... don't shoot 0.5u into a 60!).
 
Lots of very useful and information here.
Joanna, when you say"If she has spiked up, then you could give a token dose, maybe 0.2 if she is over 200, or a fat 0 if she is over 180." what exactly do you mean by a fat 0. I'm only *guessing* but is that just above the 0 mark but still below the first marked line on the syringe?
joanna--"OK is anyone besides me intrigued that Callie got a U-curve today on no insulin?"
kelly--"I think the U curve is us seeing the pancreas working after breakfast and wearing/weaning off toward the afternoon."

Can someone explain what this U-curve is? I would like to understand.
I get what your saying about the pancreas needing a push until it is ready to handle it's own. Am I to understand that the diabetes causes the pancreas to fail yet any damage can possibly be reversed? Is that what makes it possible for kitties to come otj, but in other kitties it is beyond repair, therefore, those kitties will never be otj?
 
U curve is the pattern of the BG numbers during the cycle (higher at both ends- amps and pmps, lower in mid cycle).and you got it right about the pancreas regenerating.
 
Yes, in some cats the damage to the pancreas is repairable. It is thought there is a limited window of opportunity for this, but some cats surprise us and go into remission after years of treatment.
 
Fat 0 is basically a drop of insulin. We use skinny & fat to mean just under or over the line, so a skinny 0.2 is just under the 1st line (if you have syringes w/1/2 unit markings), fat 0 just the smallest amount you can even get in the syringe.

U-curve is the pattern PZI gives you when it is working well - so that's why I found it curious to see a U-curve w/o any insulin. Made me wonder if it's a natural pattern (as Kelly suggested having to do with eating pattern), and made me wonder how that affects #s interpretation and dosing, especially for kitties on micro doses w/sputtering pancreases.

The pancreas thing I think is sort of unique to cats? I vaguely remember my vet saying it just doesn't happen it dogs, but cats seem to sometimes recover from diabetes. I'm not sure if it is equivalent to being diet controlled in human, certainly plenty of human diabetics (Type II, right?) do not take insulin, or if it is something more kitty-special :-D than that.

I would follow what Kelly said for when to shoot & such, it makes a lot of sense to me :mrgreen:
 
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