bupe experience???

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how much can i increase bupe for tom without worry of unwanted side effects...like killing him.
i of course asked the vet, but trust the experience here more.
his first dose nearly a month ago was totally too much for him at 4.5 and he went catatonic and scared for 24 hours.
i lowered to 2
then to 1.5.
now 2 is not enuf it seems to produce any noticeable change in his comfort level.
can i just keep administering additonal 2 every hour or so... or
can i go to 3 and just wait the next 12 hours before adding to it.
i don't want to cause breathing difficulty or the paranoia he got the first time around altho i think he has now built up a resistence to it.
thank you bupe users.
lori
and tomtom
 
Hi Lori,

What unit of measurement are your doses? Are these being measured on an insulin syringe?

I use bupe for Harley during his pancreatitis attacks and draw it on a 1/2 cc tuberculin syringe. The vet prescribed 0.20 ccs or ml per dose. I found that dose was waaaaay too high and seriously gorked my cat so went down to 0.15 ccs and that seems much better. He's still a little lethargic and stares off into space sometimes but he can eat and even plays a little.

FWIW my cats only vet told me that bupe can be given every 12 hours, every 8 hours and if necessary every 6 hours. Fortunately I haven't had to do more than TID yet.
 
fwiw, i know my tendency would be to overdose him as a response to pain.
and the vet reccommended going right back to 4.5
at some point in my desire to ease pain i will go to 6 if you say it's ok.
 
laura the syringes are marked in half units going all the way to 1unit as a full syringe.
so when i say 2, it actually .2 or 4.5 is actually .45
if that makes any sense.
 
Thanks Lori, it sounds like a 1 cc tuberculin syringe, does it also have little marks in between the whole and half unit marks?

I'm certainly not qualified to dose bupe for anyone but Harley but your question reminds me of a thread from a few months ago on bupe dosing and as I recall, Linda and Bear Man's explanation of bupe dosing to another user, kse, was really good. Here's the link to the thread and you may want to PM Linda: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=48894
 
Laura I read the whole thread....
still don't know how much Tom can tolerate as he has been on it for almost 3 months or so.
With a few breaks in between.
I can just wing it. I can tell he has developed a high tolerance for it by now.
Thank you for the link.
Lori
 
Hopefully others will come on and advise tonight, it's Caturday and kinda slow.

Hugs to you and scritches to Senior Thomas. I really feel for what you two are going through.

:YMHUG: cat_pet_icon
 
lori and tom said:
laura the syringes are marked in half units going all the way to 1unit as a full syringe.
so when i say 2, it actually .2 or 4.5 is actually .45
if that makes any sense.
Click to expand...


Do your syringes look like one of these?

1_ml_syringe_markings2.jpg


Both are tuberculin syringes. They have markings for every 0.01 ml.

I don't know how much bupe you can safely give to Tom without him having sied effects but hopefully someone will know.
 
i have both of those syringes...confuses why the thicker one appears to give more dose than the thinner. are they really the same?
 
Per Plumb's Vet Drug Manual. the dose is between o.o1 and 0.03 mg/ml. One concentration of bup is 0.3 mg/ml but it is also available in a higher concentration. Each cat can react differently so one person's experience may not be applicable to Tom.
 
lori and tom said:
i have both of those syringes...confuses why the thicker one appears to give more dose than the thinner. are they really the same?
Click to expand...


They are the same, just different manufacturers so maybe slight differences in barrel diameter. The one on the left is made by BD. The one on the right with the green plunger is made by Norm-Ject.

Here's a better picture of the markings on the Norm-Ject:

Norm_Ject_1ml_syringe_markings.jpg
 
I can't imagine .02, I am serving him .2
That dose just seems way too small. Are you sure>
 
The dose is not so much the amount of the syringe. You have to see what the prescription says on the bottle label. Our bottle says 0.3 mg/ml and we got a 5ml bottle
We give our Calistica 0.05ml of a 0.3 mg/ml dose every 12 hours. This means we are giving her 0.15mg/ml twice a day which = 0.3mg/ml a day.
She gets pretty wired on Buprenex so whatever the vet says we cut it in half. I can't tell you how much it is safe to increase but the vet on her prescription wrote 0.05 - 0.1 mg/ml every 12 hours. I would not want to go any higher than 0.1 BID
 
Lori,

The dose is .1 to .3 ml (cc). NOT .01 to .03ml, which would be 1u to 3u in an insulin syringe.
The usual concentration given for vet use is 0.3mg/ML of liquid volume.

So if you have TB syringes, which are usually 1ml total capacity, .1ml
would be the first numbered mark (0.1) and .3ml would be the one marked 0.3.

I'm currently giving Sophie bupe for her dental extractions Friday, and using pre-filled
syringes from the vet. They are TB syringes of 1.0ml total capacity loaded to the 0.2ml
mark. So that's a 'middle-of-the-road dose' at .2ml.

If you have U-100 insulin syringes, then .1ml is 10 units and .3ml is 30 units.

If you are drawing from the vial, then TB syringes are best, because you can
remove the needle after drawing and use the syringe like an oral syringe for
in-the-mouth administration.

One thing to remember, if you are giving orally, you do not want it to be swallowed.
It's only effective if absorbed through the mucous membranes of the mouth lining.
If you give a large amount orally all at once, some may be swallowed and that amount
is ineffective. It can be given by injection, also, but I have never done that.

Anything more than .1ml, I try to give in small batches, .1ml at a time until
it gets mooshed around in the mouth, then give the next little bit for that dose.
To help insure that it is not swallowed in one big gulp.

What you are calling 4.5 must be .45 ml, which is a lot of bupe.
With Smokey, I went to more frequent dosing, at a
lower amount. Like .2ml every 6-8 hours. That way you get some overlap between doses.
The worst pain time is the couple of hours before the next dose is due when you are on a bid schedule.

Praying for you and Lord Thomas every day.
 
lori and tom said:
I can't imagine .02, I am serving him .2
That dose just seems way too small. Are you sure>
Click to expand...

.02 is not correct; should be .2ml. TB syringes are marked every .01ml, but the first NUMBERED
mark is .1ml.
 
lori and tom said:
laura the syringes are marked in half units going all the way to 1unit as a full syringe.
so when i say 2, it actually .2 or 4.5 is actually .45
if that makes any sense.
Click to expand...


This can't be right. There are syringes that contain 1ml total capacity...which would
be 100 units (if it were a U-100 insulin syringe).

A syringe holding 1 UNIT total capacity would be about as skinny as a human hair.
 
I have not read all of the responses here but just like we always say about insulin dosages....ie....that it is important to always accurately state the units of measure and use the proper syringe.....it is just as important to always state units of measure of a drug and use the proper syringe....ie....a standard 1cc (ml) syringe.

For the average 10 lb cat, I use 0.15 - 0.2 ml 2-3x/day orally.

0.45 ml is a very large dose!!
 
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