Buggy - a newbie

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Krafty111

Member Since 2013
I have been reading messages on this board since Buggy was dx'ed on Sept 3rd but I saw so many other cats & owners that were much more in need that I felt blessed that Buggy had only lost weight & some strength in his back legs but had already showed improvement in the 1st week of using Hill's m/d canned food & a shot/day of 2 units of lantus. During the 1st vet visit after knowing the dx, I mentioned home monitoring but the vet stepped back & my husband argued not to do it since buggy would be coming back weekly for BG testing. When my husband asked what I would do if the test came out bad, I agreed to wait and see how things went.

We are now on our 3rd week and Buggy shares his home with his 2 sisters, Fluffy & Tiny. Fluffy hates can food & Tiny will eat anything so we still have the dry food that buggy loves but can't have. We have had cats for over 30 years & have always free fed them. My husband & I share duties so he handles the feeding & I handle all of the vet & shot issues. My husband doesn't believe that buggy will ever be trained to eat just twice a day & the vet says as long as we don't over feed him then the more frequent feedings are fine. He juggles the cats around but last week (Buggy's 2nd week on insulin), he forgot to pull up the dry food & Buggy got into it. Buggy's week BG went from 279 up to 400.

Last night, there was a raid on the kitchen & the bag of dry food was knocked off the back of the counter & it was chewed into. Not sure who it was (Tiny vs Buggy) but we caught Buggy eating. I have now put the two sister's food in bowls with snap lids on them & put the dry food bag into a plastic container with a lid.

My 1st question is....I know we will probably never be able to allow Buggy back on dry food but what should we do with the 2 sisters? They need to lose some weight but I don't think we can afford to put them all on can food & Fluffy doesn't like it anyways. Should we even try? Would it be easier on Buggy if we changed their dry food so it wasn't the kind he ate all his life? I know everyone says to switch to can food and Tiny does eat some of Buggy's but any ideas, recommendations, etc would be appreciated.

2nd question is why shouldn't we be using the lantus pen needles? Walmart gave me the ReliOn 31g 8mm needles. They seem to work pretty good. I don't really like having to keep the needle in for 10 seconds as the instructions say but Buggy usually stays still for that time.

3rd question - I really like my vet but I am going to do monitoring whether he likes it or not... I went out & picked up a ReliOn Confirm Monitor today. I haven't done a spreadsheet because Buggy's tx seems different then most here. He is only getting one shot a day in the evening. His weekly BGs have been 503, 279, 400 & we shall see how he does this Saturday. My question is...since he is only getting one shot per day, when should I check his BGs? Last Saturday the vet increased him up to 3 units due to his increased BGs.

I apologize to everyone else who has a cat who is worse then Buggy. Your sweetie is much more important due to the problems he or she is having so I will understand if responses to my questions are slow. Buggy will be fine if you who are experts are busy helping others in need.

Thank you for all you do for all of us.
 
Every kitty is important - please don't worry about posting. We want to help every diabetic.

Insulin works best twice a day as it generally lasts only 12 hours in cats. That's why you are seeing high numbers once during the 24 hours and lower numbers in the 12 hours after the shot. We would urge you to give insulin twice a day, 12 hours apart. There are articles you can share with your vet that illustrate why twice daily works better.

I would try to get everyone on wet low carb. It's better for all your cats and might keep another one from getting diabetes. A vet explains why wet low carb is best for every cat here: www.catinfo org. She also has great ideas for transitioning reluctant converts. To keep the costs lower, lots of members here feed Friskies pates in the larger size cans.
 
Hello and welcome to the board

As sue said, lantus only works 12 hours in the cats system which is why you are likely seeing wonky numbers. It is usually dosed twice a day. We can provide info on this for you to show your vet if you like?

The pen needle tips aren't accurate enough for cats. They are ok for humans when we are able to handle a dose that's out by a unit, but for a cat a dose that's 1 unit too much is a big deal. Cats are sensitive to dose changes as low as 0.25units and the pen needle tips just aren't sensitive enough to dose that small. That's why we use separate syringes to withdraw the insulin.

I usually recommend 4 tests a day

- always before the shot - this is mandatory as you don't want to shoot when too low. As a newbie this too low number is 200 but is reduced over time once you have the data to know if its safe.
- mid cycle - 5-7 hours after morning shot depending on your schedule. This is to see how low he is going. The low point "nadir" is what you base dose changes on since you don't want him dropping too low (under 50).
- before bed (2-3hours after Pm shot) to get an idea of what his overnight plans are. If this number is less than the pre shot test number you may want to set the alarm for a test a few hours later as this implies an active cycle.

Wendy

Ps don't apologise. Your cat is just as important as everyone else's here!!
 
Hi Karen and sugarkitty Buggy and welcome to the FDMB!

1. Food. The prescription canned food is very expensive, and no better for a diabetic cat than some lower cost canned foods like Fancy Feast classic pate style and Friskies pate style foods. Besides, these foods have lots of flavors to entice the pickiest of kitties, where the M/d you are feeding only has the one flavor. In fact, the Fancy Feast and Friskies pates are actually lower in carbs than the M/D and diabetic cats often do better on the lower carb foods.

2. Are you using the Lantus solostar pen? Using the pen needles, you can only dial in a dose in 1U (unit) increments. The protocol we use does dosing changes in 0.25U or sometimes 0.5U increments. You can measure this with an insulin syringe, but not by using the pen needles. You insert the insulin syringe in the rubber stopper of the solostar pen, and withdraw the insulin that way.

I've never left the insulin syringe in for the 10 seconds after the injection. Everything was just fine not doing this and I found this step unnecessary.

3. Always, please, always test before you give an insulin shot. We want to keep your cat safe. It's very important to us, that Buggy is not too low and drops into hypoglycemia. Then a test in the middle of the cycle is good, 12 hours being the normal time of a cycle. Since you are not giving the Lantus insulin twice a day as is recommended by most vets, you might want to test later in the day, when the insulin will have worn off. After 12 or 15 or 18 hours. You'll be surprised how high Buggy might me going in his BG (blood glucose) levels and discover why he needs insulin 2 times a day.

Was there a reason you vet only told you to give insulin once a day?

Yes, Buggy is important to us. There is no reason you should feel that other cats are more deserving of our attention than Buggy is. You become part of a very special family, once you start posting on this board. We want to try to help you as much as we can to make you and Buggy better.

So please, keep posting, ask any questions you may have, ask for clarifications if needed. It may take a while to answer you. If you have a health emergency, put the 911 icon on your very first post in this topic, by going back and clicking on the edit icon. and changing the subject line and putting that 911 icon on your post. That will get our immediate attention.

We are all here to share our experience with our diabetic cats. There are no experts here, we are laypeople with lots of opinions and knowledge, very concerned for other diabetic cat caregivers, some would say crazy cat folks that want to help others as we were helped in the beginning of this new journey into feline diabetes.
 
My vet said that lantus works for about 21 hrs so only 1 shot a day. He also said he has had other diabetic cats with most of them ending up in remission. My niece is also going to Cornell University to become a vet & the article she sent me from a vet website that most of the students use stated that lantus lasted for 24 hours....though the article is dated 2008. Are the articles on this website? Are they drug specific?

I just tried I check his BG but he flicked his ear before I got the stick up to the blood drop then I didn't wait until I got enough blood. At least I know I can do it now & tho he wasn't thrilled by the monitor beeping near this ear, he was still ok. I am afraid to try to give him any treats to reward him cuz I don't want to mess up anything. I saw there were some diabetic treats available but I wondered where I could get freeze dried chicken?

My husband has very stiff hands and I am away at work from 7:00 - 6:00 but I will figure something out with the testing. Oh...to do a control test with the vet...can I just see if I can get a drop of blood from the injection spot or do I need to poke his ear? Will his level be the same no matter where I get the blood?

Thank you for the info! I will start testing him & see what I get. :smile:
 
I don't use Lantus, but others will be along to provide you with the articles.

Lots of people use chicken breasts. Just cook with no spices, then cut into small pieces and freeze. The dried treats are fine - we like PureBites.

If you need to, you can get the drop of blood on your fingernail and test it from there.
 
I don't use Lantus, but others will be along with the articles.

Lots of people cook chicken without spices, cut into small pieces and freeze. Dried treats are fine also - we like PureBites.

If you need to, you can always get the drop on your fingernail and test from there.
 
The cat's metabolism is roughly twice as fast as the human's or the dog's. Twice daily dosing (BID) keeps the glucose under much better control. The Tight Regulation protocol which has been shown to improve remission rates uses this every 12 hour dosing.

If you look at the spreadsheets for the cats on Lantus, you will very clearly see that about 12 hours after a shot, the glucose has risen back up to preshot levels, especially when starting out. This is real world data supporting every 12 hour dosing.

A cat nearing remission on very low doses of Lantus might get to the point that once daily or even as needed dosing could be done.
 
...can I just see if I can get a drop of blood from the injection spot or do I need to poke his ear? Will his level be the same no matter where I get the blood?
Click to expand...

When you inject the insulin, you are injecting under the skin so you should not be hitting a vein and getting any blood. You also want to know what the BG (blood glucose) level is BEFORE you give the shot of insulin. You are making sure the BG is not too low to give the shot and take your cat into hypoglycemia territory.

Two testing spots are used to get blood from a cat. The ear and the paw pad. Please, never use the lip as some vets recommend for dogs. Too many nerve endings in a cats lips. There are few nerve endings in the ear, the ear is readily accessible and most cats get used to having their ears touched so most of us test using a tiny poke in the ear.

All meters are allowed by regulation to have a variance of 20% plus or minus. Any reading you get from testing will vary from test to test, by as much as this regulated variance. It does not matter where you poke to get blood, but the ear and paw are easy for the average person to poke and test. Harder for the average untrained person to get a vein in the leg like they do at my vet's office and the local cat shelter. Besides, it hurts more to poke the vein in the leg.
 
Your vet is out of date.. here is more info for you to show her

- AAHA Feline Diabetes Treatment Guidelines http://www.felinediabetes.com/AAHADiabetesGuidelines.pdf - note where it says :
Most cats are well regulated on insulin at 0.5 U/kg q 12 hours, with a range of 0.2 to 0.8 U/kg.15,33 The panel recom-mends a starting dose of 0.25 U/kg q 12 hours, based on an estimate of the cat’s lean body weight.
Click to expand...
- Published article http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19592286
- University of queensland article http://www.uq.edu.au/ccah/docs/diabetesinfo/link2.pdf

Here are test tips - make sure though you hold that ear firmly so you dont end up with the precious blood spattering everywhere!! You can also collect it on your nail and test that https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub


Wendy
PS You can get freeze dried chicken in most pet stores and even walmart. Make sure its pure chicken though and nothing else.
 
Is it bad to keep testing in just one ear? I have one of Buggy's ears set up to bleed but I can't seem to get his left one to work. I keep trying by starting with that one but than when he starts getting too antsy & I can't seem to get a drop to start/show up, I finally move to his right ear just so I can get a reading. Since I am only doing one injection a day, I am only trying to do 2 tests per day with Buggy acting so well but I tried using a pill bottle with warm water on his ear & he was not happy about that & it didn't seem to help much...

I am trying to get him to get use to a schedule so he handles all the needles without being so scared. Tonight he came looking for me about the time for his shot cuz he knows he gets fed after though he stays for some cuddling time before informing my husband it is time to feed him.

I have read quite a few of the ideas of how to warm his ear but which one works the best? Or should I just wait until I can wake him up when his ears are nice & warm? Oh and I was using 31g lancets that came with my monitor but I picked up some 28g ones in hopes it would help get his left ear going. He really is very good & does bites or scratch but just tries to wiggle away.

What has worked best for others?
 
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