Buff-puff +6 in the green!!! What do I do?
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Kelly & Oscar
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Re: Buffy +6 in the green!!! What do I do?
when does she usually hit her lowest point during the day? If it is usually around +6, then that is a perfect nadir I think. Congrats! flip_cat
when does she usually hit her lowest point during the day? If it is usually around +6, then that is a perfect nadir I think. Congrats! flip_cat
Hope and Aria
Active Member
Re: Buffy +6 in the green!!! What do I do?
I would say "Yay!!" and go with it. The 90's are a perfect nadir. From the few #'s we have on your SS, I would say that it's fine timing and your nadir is falling in that area. So again, yay!
I would say "Yay!!" and go with it. The 90's are a perfect nadir. From the few #'s we have on your SS, I would say that it's fine timing and your nadir is falling in that area. So again, yay!
Gator & H (GA)
Very Active Member
Re: Buffy +6 in the green!!! What do I do?
This is good. Did you do anything different last night/today?
From the SLGS guide:
My suggestion might be a little more nuanced. The 92 is great - the only thing that isn't perfect is the larger delta of 70%. This isn't huge but it makes me think the dose might now be a hair too much. I would have a small dose reduction in mind - like .2u. This would be dependent on where Buffy ended up tonight. So if Buffy were below 300 on the PS tonight then I might back off the dose a hair by like .2u. Otherwise keep the 2u. Others may disagree with this. I am known to be cautious - perhaps too cautious. My thinking in situations like this are, that you have reason to believe the 2u is now getting traction and will probably lower her in the future. So you can always go back up to that dose if you need to when a dose reduction doesn't work out. Anyway, just my $0.02.
If this breakthrough is from the LC food this is the longest delayed food breakthrough I've seen. Whatever it is, it is good.
This is good. Did you do anything different last night/today?
From the SLGS guide:
So according the the guide you would keep you dose the same.
My suggestion might be a little more nuanced. The 92 is great - the only thing that isn't perfect is the larger delta of 70%. This isn't huge but it makes me think the dose might now be a hair too much. I would have a small dose reduction in mind - like .2u. This would be dependent on where Buffy ended up tonight. So if Buffy were below 300 on the PS tonight then I might back off the dose a hair by like .2u. Otherwise keep the 2u. Others may disagree with this. I am known to be cautious - perhaps too cautious. My thinking in situations like this are, that you have reason to believe the 2u is now getting traction and will probably lower her in the future. So you can always go back up to that dose if you need to when a dose reduction doesn't work out. Anyway, just my $0.02.
If this breakthrough is from the LC food this is the longest delayed food breakthrough I've seen. Whatever it is, it is good.
Donna & Buddha
Active Member
Re: Buffy +6 in the green!!! What do I do?
92 is a terrific nadir, if it is the nadir. I'd advise a +7 test too, if testing is going well (not too traumatic for you or Buffy). If testing is still a struggle for you guys, then it's not critical. Will you be doing a +8 test anyway?
Though, Gator beat me to the "submit" button and I'm reading his feedback. I was curious too about the +2 and +4 values so close together, and so solidly yellow, then the larger +6 drop to the green. Which is why I'd check at +7 too, for extra data.
92 is a terrific nadir, if it is the nadir. I'd advise a +7 test too, if testing is going well (not too traumatic for you or Buffy). If testing is still a struggle for you guys, then it's not critical. Will you be doing a +8 test anyway?
Though, Gator beat me to the "submit" button and I'm reading his feedback. I was curious too about the +2 and +4 values so close together, and so solidly yellow, then the larger +6 drop to the green. Which is why I'd check at +7 too, for extra data.
Re: Buffy +6 in the green!!! What do I do?
The only thing I did differently is I gave her some of the Whiskas milk last night. This morning I looked at the ingredients (not the GA), and it listed corn syrup solids, which concerned me. So I gave her some about 2 hours before her last BG -- thinking if there were a problem, I'd see it right away. But the BG was 92 so no problems there I hope!!
She's been getting consistently low carb foods of 6 and less (as far as I can tell --although several different varieties and flavors - Friskies, FF, EVO).
I have noticed that after the scary PMPS 571 on 05/11, she's been unusually playful. Last night she started her old game of hiding and poking her head around to see if I'm looking!! Good sign as she hasn't done that in a while.
I was noticing her numbers seem lower in the day and wondering if that's significant of anything.
Okay that's reasonable.
That was why I was cautiously optimistic. I thought it might be too much of a drop to be good. I didn't get a +7 as she's getting a little touchy, so I'm waiting for +8 and will update.
Whew! Thanks everyone!
Edit: +8 she's 194. She ate Friskies Super Supper/EVO mix 30 minutes ago.
I'm working but will check back for any advice!
Edit: Thought of something else I've been doing differently for a couple of days - now feeding chicken/turkey/beef. Whereas I had been feeding fish flavors -but not sure that would make a difference.
Edit:
Everyone...I looked over my post and some of it was nonsense -- benign should have been BG and carotid bruits should have been carbs. I was working and had a program running that I use on the job. Please let me know if you read a post from me and notice words where they don't belong and I'll edit. :roll:
The only thing I did differently is I gave her some of the Whiskas milk last night. This morning I looked at the ingredients (not the GA), and it listed corn syrup solids, which concerned me. So I gave her some about 2 hours before her last BG -- thinking if there were a problem, I'd see it right away. But the BG was 92 so no problems there I hope!!
She's been getting consistently low carb foods of 6 and less (as far as I can tell --although several different varieties and flavors - Friskies, FF, EVO).
I have noticed that after the scary PMPS 571 on 05/11, she's been unusually playful. Last night she started her old game of hiding and poking her head around to see if I'm looking!! Good sign as she hasn't done that in a while.
I was noticing her numbers seem lower in the day and wondering if that's significant of anything.
Okay that's reasonable.
That was why I was cautiously optimistic. I thought it might be too much of a drop to be good. I didn't get a +7 as she's getting a little touchy, so I'm waiting for +8 and will update.
Whew! Thanks everyone!
Edit: +8 she's 194. She ate Friskies Super Supper/EVO mix 30 minutes ago.
I'm working but will check back for any advice!
Edit: Thought of something else I've been doing differently for a couple of days - now feeding chicken/turkey/beef. Whereas I had been feeding fish flavors -but not sure that would make a difference.
Edit:
Everyone...I looked over my post and some of it was nonsense -- benign should have been BG and carotid bruits should have been carbs. I was working and had a program running that I use on the job. Please let me know if you read a post from me and notice words where they don't belong and I'll edit. :roll:Re: Buffy +6 in the green!!! What do I do?
:sad: Unfortunately that 92 from 05/14 was an anomaly as I haven't seen one since. AMPS was high - 441 - so I upped her dose by .2 to 2.2 units. I realize that's not a huge amount but now I'm second guessing myself because she has some sniffles/maybe a temp, which I'm getting ready to attempt.
Other than her high numbers, she seems mostly her normal self as long as I can keep her well below 500. When she's in the yellow, she's playful, etc.
Any advice? As usual, many thanks. :smile:
Edit: Temp 101.2
:sad: Unfortunately that 92 from 05/14 was an anomaly as I haven't seen one since. AMPS was high - 441 - so I upped her dose by .2 to 2.2 units. I realize that's not a huge amount but now I'm second guessing myself because she has some sniffles/maybe a temp, which I'm getting ready to attempt.
Other than her high numbers, she seems mostly her normal self as long as I can keep her well below 500. When she's in the yellow, she's playful, etc.
Any advice? As usual, many thanks. :smile:
Edit: Temp 101.2
A
Anonymous
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Re: Buffy +6 in the green!!! What do I do?
sniffles, maybe a temp. an infection in a diabetic cat can raise your bg's
sniffles, maybe a temp. an infection in a diabetic cat can raise your bg's
Hope and Aria
Active Member
Re: Buffy +6 in the green!!! What do I do?
Have you had a dental done on Buffy recently. If there's any gum infection, that can hold the #'s high as well.
Have you had a dental done on Buffy recently. If there's any gum infection, that can hold the #'s high as well.
Re: Buffy +6 in the green!!! What do I do?
Her temp seems okay, but if she's still sniffling tomorrow she'll be seeing vet for sure. As far as her BGs, the extra .2 may have done her some good - went from 441 to 314 at +2. I'm anxious about her not being regulated - nailbite_smile - so much so that I haven't left the house for more than an hour since diagnosis. I checked for ketones last night and she's still negative.
I'm also concerned that her food may be keeping her BGs up. I had taken her off FF, but then found some that was low carotid bruit and decided to try her on it, and she loved it like all other FF, but her BGs seemed to have gone up, so maybe it isn't low enough -- vet wants her under 7. So I'm trying the Wellness food next. I saw it when I got the EVO (which she now won't touch), so I'm going to try that and see how it goes. :YMSIGH:
Her temp seems okay, but if she's still sniffling tomorrow she'll be seeing vet for sure. As far as her BGs, the extra .2 may have done her some good - went from 441 to 314 at +2. I'm anxious about her not being regulated - nailbite_smile - so much so that I haven't left the house for more than an hour since diagnosis. I checked for ketones last night and she's still negative.
I'm also concerned that her food may be keeping her BGs up. I had taken her off FF, but then found some that was low carotid bruit and decided to try her on it, and she loved it like all other FF, but her BGs seemed to have gone up, so maybe it isn't low enough -- vet wants her under 7. So I'm trying the Wellness food next. I saw it when I got the EVO (which she now won't touch), so I'm going to try that and see how it goes. :YMSIGH:
Hope and Aria
Active Member
Re: Buffy +6 in the green!!! What do I do?
You can also mix the foods if needed. Ari won't eat anything but the Chicken Feast FF, but it's high in phosphorous, so we have to mix it with other foods to bring that level down a bit.
You can also mix the foods if needed. Ari won't eat anything but the Chicken Feast FF, but it's high in phosphorous, so we have to mix it with other foods to bring that level down a bit.
Re: Buffy +6 in the green!!! What do I do?
Maybe that's it. Vet said she needs teeth cleaned but doesn't want to do it until she's stabilized - said the infection from her teeth would get into the bloodstream.
What do you mix it with - and what ratio? I've tried mixing the EVO and FF, but she doesn't go for it. I'll try and do a more gradual mix. The Tender Chicken & Liver and Tender Beef FF are what I've switched her to. How bad is the phosphorous for her?
Maybe that's it. Vet said she needs teeth cleaned but doesn't want to do it until she's stabilized - said the infection from her teeth would get into the bloodstream.
What do you mix it with - and what ratio? I've tried mixing the EVO and FF, but she doesn't go for it. I'll try and do a more gradual mix. The Tender Chicken & Liver and Tender Beef FF are what I've switched her to. How bad is the phosphorous for her?
Hope and Aria
Active Member
Re: Buffy +6 in the green!!! What do I do?
Phosphorous isn't great, but it's only really bad if you have a cat who's got some kidney issues. Basically if their creatinine and bun start to go high when they get their blood work, then you start looking at things that don't make their kidneys work so hard. The vet will first tell you to go low protein, but there are some studies that show that it may be the phosphorous and not the protein that's the problem. Most high protein foods don't have great quality protein (and of course the ones that do, my cat won't eat).
For Ari, I have to start by mixing about a tablespoon in with a whole can to see if we can even get her to touch it. After that, I work up to a 1/2 and 1/2 mixture and go from there. She'll eat the Sophisticat (PetSmart brand) 1/2 and 1/2, but all the expensive good quality stuff she turns her nose up at - go fig. I think you'll be able to at least get her stable with the # watching, but I do highly recommend that dental as soon as she's at a point where the vet is comfortable with it. We stabilized shortly after Ari's dental (but she also had a 24 hour IV at the same time because of her kidney levels, so not sure which was the deciding factor there)
Either way, I know I've read a lot that dental issues or other illnesses can cause the body to not use the insulin effectively.
Phosphorous isn't great, but it's only really bad if you have a cat who's got some kidney issues. Basically if their creatinine and bun start to go high when they get their blood work, then you start looking at things that don't make their kidneys work so hard. The vet will first tell you to go low protein, but there are some studies that show that it may be the phosphorous and not the protein that's the problem. Most high protein foods don't have great quality protein (and of course the ones that do, my cat won't eat).
For Ari, I have to start by mixing about a tablespoon in with a whole can to see if we can even get her to touch it. After that, I work up to a 1/2 and 1/2 mixture and go from there. She'll eat the Sophisticat (PetSmart brand) 1/2 and 1/2, but all the expensive good quality stuff she turns her nose up at - go fig. I think you'll be able to at least get her stable with the # watching, but I do highly recommend that dental as soon as she's at a point where the vet is comfortable with it. We stabilized shortly after Ari's dental (but she also had a 24 hour IV at the same time because of her kidney levels, so not sure which was the deciding factor there)
Either way, I know I've read a lot that dental issues or other illnesses can cause the body to not use the insulin effectively.
Re: Buffy +6 in the green!!! What do I do?
Thanks Hope. Some good info there. So far Buffy's other tests were normal, including kidney function, so I'm very thankful for that. But now I'm thinking about the phosphorous. I got her some Wellness and she's eating it okay. She doesn't want it for snack so I'm probably going to give something else, maybe FF Tender Beef or Chicken.
I'm not sure what the vet wants to do regarding her dental needs. She did mention a laser treatment but wants to get her numbers down before doing it. Since infection could keep her numbers up, wonder if there's a middle-of-the-road treatment that could be done in the meantime. Seems like one of those catch 22 situations. I'll speak to vet about it when we see her again. Buffy was irate when I picked her up after her one and only curve at the vet, and I'd like to just do them at home. Hope vet doesn't give me grief about it. :roll:
Thanks Hope. Some good info there. So far Buffy's other tests were normal, including kidney function, so I'm very thankful for that. But now I'm thinking about the phosphorous. I got her some Wellness and she's eating it okay. She doesn't want it for snack so I'm probably going to give something else, maybe FF Tender Beef or Chicken.
I'm not sure what the vet wants to do regarding her dental needs. She did mention a laser treatment but wants to get her numbers down before doing it. Since infection could keep her numbers up, wonder if there's a middle-of-the-road treatment that could be done in the meantime. Seems like one of those catch 22 situations. I'll speak to vet about it when we see her again. Buffy was irate when I picked her up after her one and only curve at the vet, and I'd like to just do them at home. Hope vet doesn't give me grief about it. :roll:
Hope and Aria
Active Member
Re: Buffy +6 in the green!!! What do I do?
If you can show that you are getting the curve and remind the vet that it's less stressful for your girl at home, you may get a convert. My vet was slow to trust me, but over the past few months when I walk in with real usable data and reasoning behind our decisions, they're more than happy to discuss options rather than just tell me what to do. They no longer even offer the fructosamine tests since steady home testings with a solid curve now and again pretty much trumps that test. If you can get an open dialogue going with them, hopefully they will start working with you. I agree with the vets initial worries - you don't want to add infection to the bloodstream - but something is causing the insulin not to be used effectively.
I am glad to see you're sticking with the 2.2 for now. If you gave the shot when she was at 316 - make sure to keep that as your PS #. Most kitties are still on the rise at +1 and that's normal - if it goes down you've either got pancreas action or heavy overlap. Are you feeding a 1/2 hour before the shot? I'm a little confused by your SS for yesterday's PMPS.
If you can show that you are getting the curve and remind the vet that it's less stressful for your girl at home, you may get a convert. My vet was slow to trust me, but over the past few months when I walk in with real usable data and reasoning behind our decisions, they're more than happy to discuss options rather than just tell me what to do. They no longer even offer the fructosamine tests since steady home testings with a solid curve now and again pretty much trumps that test. If you can get an open dialogue going with them, hopefully they will start working with you. I agree with the vets initial worries - you don't want to add infection to the bloodstream - but something is causing the insulin not to be used effectively.
I am glad to see you're sticking with the 2.2 for now. If you gave the shot when she was at 316 - make sure to keep that as your PS #. Most kitties are still on the rise at +1 and that's normal - if it goes down you've either got pancreas action or heavy overlap. Are you feeding a 1/2 hour before the shot? I'm a little confused by your SS for yesterday's PMPS.
Re: Buffy +6 in the green!!! What do I do?
I'm hoping for a vet convert :smile: and am getting ready to call and let them know why I haven't brought her for another curve. But I'm staying with this plan with the fantastic help I'm getting here - and I'm very appreciative of that help!
Don't mean to confuse anyone who wants to look at her numbers. I had notes everywhere and it was getting confusing for me to look back and forth and try and figure out any pattern that might be emerging. This way, if there seems to be something that is driving her up or down, I'll hopefully catch it and make changes if necessary. The first BG number is before she eats, but she hasn't been fasting through the night either. The BG number directly below that is 1/2 hour after meal.
Anyway, I began this yesterday - I'm using two lines for each day. I record everything on that form, including meals, snacks, etc. I'm abbreviating such things as AF= After Feeding, BF=Before Feeding, FFTB=Fancy Feast Tender Beef, WC=Wellness Chicken, and so on. BTW everything I'm feeding is low carb wet.
So basically I test her before I feed her (although she is free feeding on wet through the night). But since her vet wanted her fed half hour before her shot, I test her again after she eats. Then if vet wants to know what her BGs were after a meal, I've got it recorded (she also wanted me to only feed her twice a day - plus a small snack or 2 of dry - not doing that).
I'm not saying I'll always do it this way, but for now I want to be able to see her entire day at a glance and notice any pattern that I may need to adjust. I think it might be especially helpful if I have to raise her dose -- or lower it one day.
I'm hoping for a vet convert :smile: and am getting ready to call and let them know why I haven't brought her for another curve. But I'm staying with this plan with the fantastic help I'm getting here - and I'm very appreciative of that help!
Don't mean to confuse anyone who wants to look at her numbers. I had notes everywhere and it was getting confusing for me to look back and forth and try and figure out any pattern that might be emerging. This way, if there seems to be something that is driving her up or down, I'll hopefully catch it and make changes if necessary. The first BG number is before she eats, but she hasn't been fasting through the night either. The BG number directly below that is 1/2 hour after meal.
Anyway, I began this yesterday - I'm using two lines for each day. I record everything on that form, including meals, snacks, etc. I'm abbreviating such things as AF= After Feeding, BF=Before Feeding, FFTB=Fancy Feast Tender Beef, WC=Wellness Chicken, and so on. BTW everything I'm feeding is low carb wet.
So basically I test her before I feed her (although she is free feeding on wet through the night). But since her vet wanted her fed half hour before her shot, I test her again after she eats. Then if vet wants to know what her BGs were after a meal, I've got it recorded (she also wanted me to only feed her twice a day - plus a small snack or 2 of dry - not doing that).
I'm not saying I'll always do it this way, but for now I want to be able to see her entire day at a glance and notice any pattern that I may need to adjust. I think it might be especially helpful if I have to raise her dose -- or lower it
one day.
Hope and Aria
Active Member
Re: Buffy +6 in the green!!! What do I do?
Gotcha -- I would suggest until she gets into better #'s to take your PS, give her the shot then feed her. That jump is happening because the insulin is wearing off (at the right time that it should) but then is adding in a good feed as well. The PS's that you're getting before you feed her aren't bad, but the 1/2 hour later (geez!) Now, it takes a bit for the insulin to kick in, but at least it would have a head start.
Of course, that's IMHO, but with her high #'s right now, I would at least take it into consideration.
Gotcha -- I would suggest until she gets into better #'s to take your PS, give her the shot then feed her. That jump is happening because the insulin is wearing off (at the right time that it should) but then is adding in a good feed as well. The PS's that you're getting before you feed her aren't bad, but the 1/2 hour later (geez!) Now, it takes a bit for the insulin to kick in, but at least it would have a head start.
Of course, that's IMHO, but with her high #'s right now, I would at least take it into consideration.
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