Buddy; help with determining dose- time

[Mike&Buddy]

Hi,

I need to know what to do here. Have been waiting for advise on when or how much to give Buddy in regards to insulin.

We negated the office injection per advise here.

I have pretty much had my whole morning on hold to hear from somebody on this board. I was directed here, sorry if I failed to know more about protocols but all intended interpretation told me to stay on the general health board.

If I seem a little frustrated I'm sorry, it has not been a good week.

Link to what has been going on.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=35126

Thank you,

Mike

 

[Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)]

Re: Buddy; over from general health

Hi Mike, I just read your thread on Health. Did you get your Lantus yet? If you can lay out the $250 or so for the box of 5 3ml pens/cartridges that is a better deal than the $120 or so for the 10ml vial. Lantus has a limited shelf life and for the small amounts most cats require, you wind up throwing out a lot. Therefore, the box of 3ml cartridges/pens will last for at least 5 months, probably more, if you take good care of the Lantus, store it in the 'fridge, and don't shake or roll it. The 10ml vial will only last 2 months at best and you will throw out lots more insulin. Once you get started and know what you're doing, you can get your vet to write a new prescription and order Lantus online from a Canadian pharmacy (example: CanadaDrugsOnline.com), where you will pay less than half what you pay here in the US.
Don't know what to say about Buddy's skin condition.
Do know that you will benefit from reading all of the "Stickys" at the top of this forum.
Did your vet suggest a dose? Is your vet knowledgeable about Lantus? (many are not).
What is Buddy's diet?
I hope that some of the more knowledgeable people here will be along to give you some specific advice. I would suggest changing your subject line to read something like: Buddy: new to Lantus. need ADVICE

Welcome, and good luck!

Ella & Rusty

 

[Randi & Max (GA)]

Re: Buddy; over from general health

Hi Mike
I have been reading your thread on Buddy.
How about you change your subject line to include
"need help with dose"
That should draw more eyes over here to help you out.
Do you have any spreadsheet or profile for Buddy since the last time he was on Lantus?

 

[Mike&Buddy]

Re: Buddy; over from general health

Hi Mike
I have been reading your thread on Buddy.
How about you change your subject line to include
"need help with dose"
That should draw more eyes over here to help you out.
Do you have any spreadsheet or profile for Buddy since the last time he was on Lantus?

Buddy has never been on any insulin. This is his first full blown episode.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: Buddy; over from general health

Hi Mike.

For now, I would go with your least expensive option for insulin. Walgreens probably gave you the price for the pens -- there's actually more insulin in a 5-pack of pens (15ml -- 5 pens each holding 3 ml) vs. a 10 ml vial. That is why there's a price difference. I would also check the prices at a Rite Aid. If you join their prescription plan, we've had at least one person who found they had a very good deal.

If the BG numbers are elevated due to the allergy issues, hopefully, this will be temporary. I wouldn't invest in a box of pens until you know what's going on. Also, if Buddy really needs steroids to control the skin condition, you can always work his insulin around the steroids. If his skin gets infected or the problem gets worse, his BG levels will be up regardless.

A couple of things you need to consider. Lantus has a limited lifespan especially if mistreated. It must be refrigerated to prolong it's useful period. Do NOT shake or roll the bottle. It is a solution, not a suspension and doesn't require that you roll the bottle. Don't inject air back into the bottle. This is less crucial with a vial but keep in mind that syringes are coated with silicone and you don't want to inject that into your insulin. You will probably need syringes that are in 1/2 unit increments since dosing with Lantus is done in 0.25u amounts. You do need U100 syringes (not sure what insulin you've used in the past). There is information on the care and handling of Lantus in the starred, sticky notes at the top of the Topics section of this Board.

What is Buddy's ideal weight? The initial dose of Lantus can be based on a weight-related formula: initial dose = 0.25 x ideal weight in kilograms. Most cats start out somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.0u BID but it's fine to start at a lower dose if you're not comfortable with shooting a full unit. Please look over the Tight Regulation Protocol sticky. Note that Lantus dosing is based on the nadir, not on the pre-shot blood glucose values. You will want to hold your starting dose for 5 - 7 days unless it's clear that the dose is too high (e.g., you need to skip shots because you're getting a pre-shot value that's unsafe to shoot). If you have used a different insulin in the past, how you approach dosing decisions with Lantus is very different than with other types of insulin. It will take some adjustment in your thinking.

Since you have another cat that's been through diabetes, I'm going to presume Buddy is eating low carb canned food. If not, we can provide info.

 

[Mike&Buddy]

Re: Buddy; over from general health

Hi Mike, I just read your thread on Health. Did you get your Lantus yet? If you can lay out the $250 or so for the box of 5 3ml pens/cartridges that is a better deal than the $120 or so for the 10ml vial. Lantus has a limited shelf life and for the small amounts most cats require, you wind up throwing out a lot. Therefore, the box of 3ml cartridges/pens will last for at least 5 months, probably more, if you take good care of the Lantus, store it in the 'fridge, and don't shake or roll it. The 10ml vial will only last 2 months at best and you will throw out lots more insulin. Once you get started and know what you're doing, you can get your vet to write a new prescription and order Lantus online from a Canadian pharmacy (example: CanadaDrugsOnline.com), where you will pay less than half what you pay here in the US.
Don't know what to say about Buddy's skin condition.
Do know that you will benefit from reading all of the "Stickys" at the top of this forum.
Did your vet suggest a dose? Is your vet knowledgeable about Lantus? (many are not).
What is Buddy's diet?
I hope that some of the more knowledgeable people here will be along to give you some specific advice. I would suggest changing your subject line to read something like: Buddy: new to Lantus. need ADVICE

Welcome, and good luck!

Yes, you are right.

I would have got the pens, but with all the rush between work, the vet and other problems my mind set was vile and or pre-set syringes. The prescription with Walmart is pretty much in motion so I guess for now we will have to deal with what we use and what we can not. I hate loosing $$$ as much as anyone else but for the moment I need to get my boy taken care of.

The vet wanted to give 1 unit twice in 24 hours.

Buddy has been eating FF (FBD friendly) for over a year.



Ella & Rusty

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Re: Buddy; need help with determining dose

Hi Mike: just wanted to welcome you and Buddy to Lantus Land. I'm glad you changed your header...it's always easier to get a response faster if folks know you need specific help. I'm not a dosing expert; while the 1u bid seems reasonable, I would consider closely everything that Sienne (one of our dosing experts) said regarding Buddy's condition and how his BG might relate to that. My vet suggested we start Gracie at 1u and I was a little nervous so I started her at .5u bid and then took her up slowly. Yes...we lost a little time while she was building her shed but I was not sure how she would do. Looking forward to seeing you and Buddy around LL!

 

[Mike&Buddy]

Re: Buddy; over from general health

Hi Mike.

For now, I would go with your least expensive option for insulin. Walgreens probably gave you the price for the pens -- there's actually more insulin in a 5-pack of pens (15ml -- 5 pens each holding 3 ml) vs. a 10 ml vial. That is why there's a price difference. I would also check the prices at a Rite Aid. If you join their prescription plan, we've had at least one person who found they had a very good deal.

OK, thank you.


If the BG numbers are elevated due to the allergy issues, hopefully, this will be temporary. I wouldn't invest in a box of pens until you know what's going on. Also, if Buddy really needs steroids to control the skin condition, you can always work his insulin around the steroids. If his skin gets infected or the problem gets worse, his BG levels will be up regardless.

Yes, that has been my determination as well.

A couple of things you need to consider. Lantus has a limited lifespan especially if mistreated. It must be refrigerated to prolong it's useful period. Do NOT shake or roll the bottle. It is a solution, not a suspension and doesn't require that you roll the bottle. Don't inject air back into the bottle. This is less crucial with a vial but keep in mind that syringes are coated with silicone and you don't want to inject that into your insulin. You will probably need syringes that are in 1/2 unit increments since dosing with Lantus is done in 0.25u amounts. You do need U100 syringes (not sure what insulin you've used in the past). There is information on the care and handling of Lantus in the starred, sticky notes at the top of the Topics section of this Board.

As for using insulin, its strange. I have given injections for other pets to help friends, etc. And other medications for my own. April was pretty much a full FDB kitty; she got 1 unit (by the vet), in 12 hours her stats when to normal and has been in remission for about a year. She never got another shot (Lantus) after the 1st one from the vet or myself. Yes, we are set to make sure the vile is treated like an egg so to speak. :smile:

What is Buddy's ideal weight? The initial dose of Lantus can be based on a weight-related formula: initial dose = 0.25 x ideal weight in kilograms. Most cats start out somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.0u BID but it's fine to start at a lower dose if you're not comfortable with shooting a full unit. Please look over the Tight Regulation Protocol sticky. Note that Lantus dosing is based on the nadir, not on the pre-shot blood glucose values. You will want to hold your starting dose for 5 - 7 days unless it's clear that the dose is too high (e.g., you need to skip shots because you're getting a pre-shot value that's unsafe to shoot). If you have used a different insulin in the past, how you approach dosing decisions with Lantus is very different than with other types of insulin. It will take some adjustment in your thinking.

Buddy use to be around 15, he is now 11. He lost this over a five month period apparently. The last time he was checked was for his asthma which was back in October. We never, never though about a blood test though he has been on PRED to help with his allergies and asthma. I guess I need to research the use of Lantus more, its been a roller coaster here needless to say. So, is that 2.5 dose? I am terrible with fractions!

Since you have another cat that's been through diabetes, I'm going to presume Buddy is eating low carb canned food. If not, we can provide info.

April (see the above) she went into remission after 1 unit. But yes everyone stayed on FF since then.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: Buddy; need help with determining dose

If you look at the Tight Regulation sticky, you'll note that we suggest that you monitor carefully:

Kitty should be monitored closely the first three days when starting Lantus or Levemir.
Blood glucose levels should at least be checked at pre-shot, +3, +6, and +9.
More monitoring may be needed.

You will probably want to get a spreadsheet started and linked to your signature.

 

[Mike&Buddy]

Re: Buddy; need help with determining dose

If you look at the Tight Regulation sticky, you'll note that we suggest that you monitor carefully:

Kitty should be monitored closely the first three days when starting Lantus or Levemir.
Blood glucose levels should at least be checked at pre-shot, +3, +6, and +9.
More monitoring may be needed.

You will probably want to get a spreadsheet started and linked to your signature.

Oh, boy. Lets see here...

These are hours? +3, +6 and +9

Pre-shot means before giving the 1st shot or ALL shots?

Also I work 6 days a week 4p to 12a; so I guess we need to figure out when is the best time to start this.

I just got a Google account, now to figure that out.

Mike

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: Buddy; need help with determining dose

Our posts crossed.

First, take a few deep breaths.

The 1.0u sounds like a safe starting dose. The formula we use would start Buddy off at between 1.5 and 1.7u. Starting lower will help you get acclimated to the routine.

Since your heading off to Walmart, I'd suggest picking up some of their house brand syringes. They are in 1/2 unit increments and are inexpensive. Depending on what meter you're using, The Relion meters (Walmart's brand) are inexpensive, as are the strips.

There is a good chance that Buddy's asthma treatment is what is instrumental in his diabetes. There are several asthma kitties here. We work insulin around the pred. Asthma trumps diabetes -- your kitty needs to breathe!

There is a huge amount to learn especially since April got one shot and was no longer FD. It's easy to get overwhelmed. We've all been there and we're happy to lend a hand so you feel like you've got solid ground beneath your feet. For all practical purposes, you're a newbie. None of us have our vet administer insulin shots. Very few people here will have the vet do a curve -- your routine BG tests will give you more accurate information since vet stress won't be a factor. And, there are even fewer here who will get a fructosamine level drawn on their cat beyond the one that was used to diagnose their cat. Again, your home testing will give you minute to minute information vs. an average over 2 weeks. You're taking control of the situation.

We recommend that you always test prior to giving a shot. This allows you to determine if it's safe to inject insulin. It's also important to get spot checks during the cycle. Since we adjust dose based on the low point of the cycle (somewhere usually between 5 - 7 hours after shooting but this can vary), it's important to have an idea of what's going on.

AMPS = AM Pre-Shot and PMPS = PM Pre-Shot. All times are hours past your shot. So, depending on whether it's the morning or the evening, a +3 would be 3 hours after you injected insulin; +6 is 6 hours post-shot, +9.5 is 9 and 1/2 hours after a shot, etc. We use these times to designate hours because our community here is from all over the world and it gives us a common way of knowing where a cat is in the insulin cycle.

Yes, you will need to figure out what's the best time to shoot based on your work and sleep schedule. I would encourage you to think about setting up your shot time so you have enough time to monitor and/or if you have to delay a shot, it won't create too much havoc with your schedule. I shoot at 6:00 and it gives me several hours to monitor before I need to be at the office. (I also have a cat that's prone to early drops in her numbers.)

There are usually people on this Board much of the day. It often can get slow at the time that you will be shooting for the PM cycle but we have lots of info so you don't feel like your flying solo. There are also West Coast people who are likely to be around. The people here are exceptionally generous with their time and information. Keep asking questions.

 

[Mike&Buddy]

Re: Buddy; need help with determining dose

Our posts crossed.

First, take a few deep breaths.

The 1.0u sounds like a safe starting dose. The formula we use would start Buddy off at between 1.5 and 1.7u. Starting lower will help you get acclimated to the routine.

So we should shoot 1.0 1st, but check BG first! OK, what number should I be looking for to determine shoot no-shoot?

Since your heading off to Walmart, I'd suggest picking up some of their house brand syringes. They are in 1/2 unit increments and are inexpensive. Depending on what meter you're using, The Relion meters (Walmart's brand) are inexpensive, as are the strips.

I have a Bayer Contuor and new strips. I also have a keytone strips as well, but I guess we should have strips that see both BG and K?

There is a good chance that Buddy's asthma treatment is what is instrumental in his diabetes. There are several asthma kitties here. We work insulin around the pred. Asthma trumps diabetes -- your kitty needs to breathe!

He is what is called allergenic asthma. He had two serious attacks last year both almost a year apart but still serious. The FAB has helped me with his treatments. He has NOT been on PRED for about a month now JFYI.

There is a huge amount to learn especially since April got one shot and was no longer FD. It's easy to get overwhelmed. We've all been there and we're happy to lend a hand so you feel like you've got solid ground beneath your feet. For all practical purposes, you're a newbie. None of us have our vet administer insulin shots. Very few people here will have the vet do a curve -- your routine BG tests will give you more accurate information since vet stress won't be a factor. And, there are even fewer here who will get a fructosamine level drawn on their cat beyond the one that was used to diagnose their cat. Again, your home testing will give you minute to minute information vs. an average over 2 weeks. You're taking control of the situation.

This will be some getting use to indeed, more to it than just check and treat more or less.

We recommend that you always test prior to giving a shot. This allows you to determine if it's safe to inject insulin. It's also important to get spot checks during the cycle. Since we adjust dose based on the low point of the cycle (somewhere usually between 5 - 7 hours after shooting but this can vary), it's important to have an idea of what's going on.

OK, this is where I am concerned about blood letting so much. What happens when his ears start to bruise and or get sore? He has one ear that is rebuilt from a hematoma and it a little hard to get a perfect hit with out going all the way threw.

AMPS = AM Pre-Shot and PMPS = PM Pre-Shot. All times are hours past your shot. So, depending on whether it's the morning or the evening, a +3 would be 3 hours after you injected insulin; +6 is 6 hours post-shot, +9.5 is 9 and 1/2 hours after a shot, etc. We use these times to designate hours because our community here is from all over the world and it gives us a common way of knowing where a cat is in the insulin cycle.

This will be where I need to focus the most, dispute being a rather fairly educated person sometimes graphs and numbers make me feel like and idiot.

Yes, you will need to figure out what's the best time to shoot based on your work and sleep schedule. I would encourage you to think about setting up your shot time so you have enough time to monitor and/or if you have to delay a shot, it won't create too much havoc with your schedule. I shoot at 6:00 and it gives me several hours to monitor before I need to be at the office. (I also have a cat that's prone to early drops in her numbers.)

Well, trying to get sleep (I go to bed by 2am - unless I get stuck with O/T). I get up usually around 11:30 AM, leave for work by 3PM. And its a hectic run to get ready for work, help the furkids (April is on Flygal for IBD and Easton is on Clavamox for UTI).. So I guess about 12 or 1 PM? Or is that cutting it to close.

There are usually people on this Board much of the day. It often can get slow at the time that you will be shooting for the PM cycle but we have lots of info so you don't feel like your flying solo. There are also West Coast people who are likely to be around. The people here are exceptionally generous with their time and information. Keep asking questions.

I will be asking a lot when I can.. I'm a bit Derpy when first waking up or trying to go full blast and keep up with life. Thanks! I appreciate you all!

 

[Mike&Buddy]

Re: Buddy; need help determining dose - when

OK, we are back from Walmart..there was a moment they had lost the prescriptions Ack!

But its all good now.

OK, I have the insulin in the 10ml vile. I will plan on the pens perhaps down the road, this was pretty much commited so we will move on for now.

Also I got some syringes of the U-100 Reli-on brand. 1/2 ml dose readings, 30G, 8mm length. I got the 1/2 just in case we decided to go that route instead of the full 1 unit per... maybe his BG will go down..right? ;-)

I have a google account and down loaded the chart to have ready and use off line and printed (practice).

So, should I do a few on a couple of readings threw tonight into the AM, and then determine what to do? I think around 12 noon or 1 may work for me to give the injections (if needed), I do have to leave for work by 3 and do not get home till about 1AM. Should we go by weight, or by BG?

Mike

 

[Dyana]

Hi Mike and Buddy and Welcome to Lantus Land!

If you do not get home until 1:00am, then you will need to shoot a schedule something like 1:00pm and 1:00am.
Or 1:30pm and 1:30am, might give you some extra wiggle room, in case you get home late, or need to relax for a few minutes after work. That way you don't have to rush to test and shoot the minute you walk in the door. I have to do that sometimes :roll: , and it's kind of stressful, and I don't think it's the best way to greet my cats when I get home from a long day.

I leave the house at 7:30am and return home between 6:00pm and 6:30pm, so my shot schedule is 6:30am and 6:30pm, but I do that just so I can get one hour of monitor time before I leave the house (shoot at 6:30am, and leave one hour later at 7:30am). That's so just in case my cat should decide not to eat his breffis, or throw up his breffis, or act weird or off in any way. I can get one out-the-door-test at +1 (7:30am) before I leave the house for the day.

If you shot your first dose at 12:00pm and didn't get home until 1:00am, then that would be 13 hours apart, and this insulin does best if given 12 hours apart.

Also, for down the road; if you shoot late (like at +13) that is like giving a dose decrease, and if you shoot early (like at +11) that is like giving a dose increase. Lantus likes consistancy, so always try to shoot as close to the same dose as possible and as close to 12 hours apart as possible. That's the way to get the best efectiveness from this insulin.

And you will learn patience

 

[Mike&Buddy]

Hi Mike and Buddy and Welcome to Lantus Land!

If you do not get home until 1:00am, then you will need to shoot a schedule something like 1:00pm and 1:00am.
Or 1:30pm and 1:30am, might give you some extra wiggle room, in case you get home late, or need to relax for a few minutes after work. That way you don't have to rush to test and shoot the minute you walk in the door. I have to do that sometimes :roll: , and it's kind of stressful, and I don't think it's the best way to greet my cats when I get home from a long day.

Yes, I do not think Dad walking in the door ready to stick him right not would be a good idea. I think as you say 1:30 might be right.

I leave the house at 7:30am and return home between 6:00pm and 6:30pm, so my shot schedule is 6:30am and 6:30pm, but I do that just so I can get one hour of monitor time before I leave the house (shoot at 6:30am, and leave one hour later at 7:30am). That's so just in case my cat should decide not to eat his breffis, or throw up his breffis, or act weird or off in any way. I can get one out-the-door-test at +1 (7:30am) before I leave the house for the day.

Before you shoot, do you get a reading each time or assume other wise because it is a routine 12 hour apart session? Also, we will go for about 1:30 PM tomorrow. but... but please tell me this. What kind of readings should I decide to shoot or not shoot. I have read the stickies and they seem like they vary in accordance to types of FDB!? So an hour before I go to work is a good idea..check before I leave!But you do check before each? Sorry I'm tyring print this sutff and my router is hic-upping! :?:

My final question is, is 1/2 a unit OK for tomorrow? I have the U-100 1/2 lines..but what is the 1/2 mark on this thing!? It seems to be barely there!

If you shot your first dose at 12:00pm and didn't get home until 1:00am, then that would be 13 hours apart, and this insulin does best if given 12 hours apart.

So an hour can really make it change its effectiveness?

Also, for down the road; if you shoot late (like at +13) that is like giving a dose decrease, and if you shoot early (like at +11) that is like giving a dose increase. Lantus likes consistancy, so always try to shoot as close to the same dose as possible and as close to 12 hours apart as possible. That's the way to get the best efectiveness from this insulin. '

That makes sense, yes.

And you will learn patience

Yes, I pray I will. Thank you!

 

[Dyana]

If you look at the Tight Regulation sticky, you'll note that we suggest that you monitor carefully:

Kitty should be monitored closely the first three days when starting Lantus or Levemir.
Blood glucose levels should at least be checked at pre-shot, +3, +6, and +9.
More monitoring may be needed.

Are you going to be home tomorrow to monitor and test Buddy?

Yes, one hour difference in shot time can make a big difference. It has to do with the shed build up. Which I know is hard to understand at first and I'm not the best one to explain.
When we get off schedule, because it happens sometimes, we try to get back on schedule by shooting either 15 minutes later, or 15 minutes earlier, depending on which way we need to go. 15 minute changes to the shot schedule is best if needed to get back on schedule.

Yes, you must test before EVERY shot. I think that's what you were asking. Cats change, and sometimes suprise us, like to keep us on our toes, and like to get our undivided attention, because they're cats.. and you don't want to give insulin if your cat's BG is too low. That is for further discussion...later, once you have more data and experience, you can shoot lower as you might see in some of the spreadsheets posted here if you are looking at them, but for the beginning, I would say if you get a reading of below 200, you might want to post for advise before shooting the insulin. Someone else may advise a different shoot or don't shoot number, and I differ to them.


Keep asking questions. If you don't understand, ask away.

 

[Mike&Buddy]

If you look at the Tight Regulation sticky, you'll note that we suggest that you monitor carefully:

Kitty should be monitored closely the first three days when starting Lantus or Levemir.
Blood glucose levels should at least be checked at pre-shot, +3, +6, and +9.
More monitoring may be needed.

Are you going to be home tomorrow to monitor and test Buddy?

Yes, off all day tomorrow.

Yes, one hour difference in shot time can make a big difference. It has to do with the shed build up. Which I know is hard to understand at first and I'm not the best one to explain.
When we get off schedule, because it happens sometimes, we try to get back on schedule by shooting either 15 minutes later, or 15 minutes earlier, depending on which way we need to go. 15 minute changes to the shot schedule is best if needed to get back on schedule.

Yes, you must test before EVERY shot. I think that's what you were asking. Cats change, and sometimes suprise us, like to keep us on our toes, and like to get our undivided attention, because they're cats.. and you don't want to give insulin if your cat's BG is too low. That is for further discussion...later, once you have more data and experience, you can shoot lower as you might see in some of the spreadsheets posted here if you are looking at them, but for the beginning, I would say if you get a reading of below 200, you might want to post for advise before shooting the insulin. Someone else may advise a different shoot or don't shoot number, and I differ to them.

Well, just tried to check him and I missed the mark... not enough blood on the strip. So I decided to try again later... I know it can throw off readings if your trying to poke them a few times in one check.


Keep asking questions. If you don't understand, ask away.

I guess I should post later tonight to announce that I am trying for a 1PM shoot. And what should I shoot!?

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

It you are worried about Buddy's ears, take a look at Gabby's SS. (Admittedly, I'm a testaholic. But, I have a cat who drops quickly into low numbers early in the cycle.) Gabby's ears are none the worse for wear. What you will probably find is that one ear bleeds better than the other. Many people here use a rice sock -- the put a couple of tablespoons of rice into an old sock (not one that has acrylic in it) and warm the sock in the microwave. They rub their cat's ear with the sock to help warm the ear and encourage better blood flow. I've never used this technique but many people here swear by it.

Don't panic -- I'm not saying that you need to test like I do. But, if you're going to be cutting your time close in the AM, you're going to want to get a pre-shot test, an out-the-door test, a test when you get home and/or a PM pre-shot test and try to get spot checks during the PM cycle and a before bed test. You may need to fill in the blanks on weekends when you can.

As for a "no shoot" number, there is information on this in the Data Ready sticky. (Aren't you tired of our telling you the info is in the stickys?) Here's what we suggest until you get oriented and collect enough data to allow you to shoot low. For now, don't shoot if numbers are below 150. If numbers are between 150 and 200 (and this will change once you have data), you will be able to follow the options outlined in this post on how to handle low pre-shot numbers. And, you can post. Usually there is someone around who can walk you through the process.

You will want to get into the routine of test, feed, then shoot. I shoot when Gabby's head is in her food. Remember to give a treat when you test. The food acts as a good distraction from my giving a shot.

I use a Bayer Contour as well. Since you haven't had to buy strips for April, you will probably find the best prices on Amazon, Ebay, or through the link at the top of the Board to Hocks. Order enough on line so you don't have to go into a pharmacy for your strips. Their prices are outrageous. I would not rely on a urine test for glucose. Urine glucose testing is inaccurate. Basically, you're getting a reading on glucose that's hours old. Blood glucose gives you a read on what the level is at the moment. Think about how long it takes for most of us to need to go to the bathroom and that's how aged the reading is.

Don't worry about feeling like an idiot when it comes to your spreadsheet (SS). You'll get up to speed and if not, there are those of us who look at lots of SSs and spend our time trying to help you make sense of your cat's numbers.

 

[Mike&Buddy]

It you are worried about Buddy's ears, take a look at Gabby's SS. (Admittedly, I'm a testaholic. But, I have a cat who drops quickly into low numbers early in the cycle.) Gabby's ears are none the worse for wear. What you will probably find is that one ear bleeds better than the other. Many people here use a rice sock -- the put a couple of tablespoons of rice into an old sock (not one that has acrylic in it) and warm the sock in the microwave. They rub their cat's ear with the sock to help warm the ear and encourage better blood flow. I've never used this technique but many people here swear by it.

I'll remember the sock, lol!

Don't panic -- I'm not saying that you need to test like I do. But, if you're going to be cutting your time close in the AM, you're going to want to get a pre-shot test, an out-the-door test, a test when you get home and/or a PM pre-shot test and try to get spot checks during the PM cycle and a before bed test. You may need to fill in the blanks on weekends when you can.

Well, I guess if he lets me and I don't end up poking him to death we can do it till we get stabilized.

As for a "no shoot" number, there is information on this in the Data Ready sticky. (Aren't you tired of our telling you the info is in the stickys?) Here's what we suggest until you get oriented and collect enough data to allow you to shoot low. For now, don't shoot if numbers are below 150. If numbers are between 150 and 200 (and this will change once you have data), you will be able to follow the options outlined in this post on how to handle low pre-shot numbers. And, you can post. Usually there is someone around who can walk you through the process.

OK, I guess I will start a new thread later tonight to advise my schedule of a first shoot. Of course my main interest to that is how much!? So I guess what he tests for will indicate how much to use if needed i.e. 1 unit or 1/2 a unit.

No, I read these stickys, post away! Not to mention my printer is getting a work out.

You will want to get into the routine of test, feed, then shoot. I shoot when Gabby's head is in her food. Remember to give a treat when you test. The food acts as a good distraction from my giving a shot.


Buddy is a pretty decent boy, but he has not had any shots between his shoulders of late so I guess caution is the best idea. Food or something to get his attention.

I use a Bayer Contour as well. Since you haven't had to buy strips for April, you will probably find the best prices on Amazon, Ebay, or through the link at the top of the Board to Hocks. Order enough on line so you don't have to go into a pharmacy for your strips. Their prices are outrageous. I would not rely on a urine test for glucose. Urine glucose testing is inaccurate. Basically, you're getting a reading on glucose that's hours old. Blood glucose gives you a read on what the level is at the moment. Think about how long it takes for most of us to need to go to the bathroom and that's how aged the reading is.

OK, that I did not know!

Don't worry about feeling like an idiot when it comes to your spreadsheet (SS). You'll get up to speed and if not, there are those of us who look at lots of SSs and spend our time trying to help you make sense of your cat's numbers.

OK, I am looking at these syringes. I assume the long mark at the very top is the 1/2 mark?

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Take a look at this link to photos of syringes. There's one picture of a syringe with 1.0u of insulin as well as other doses. The very first line on the syringe is the zero line. The next, short line is 0.5u.

What the BG level is at PMPS should not necessarily dictate what you shoot. If Buddy's numbers are still high, you need to decide if you are going to shoot 0.5u or the 1.0u the vet recommended. Based on his 15lb ideal weight, the 1.0u should be fine. You will be sticking with whatever dose you choose for 5 - 7 days (providing Buddy dosen't drop into low numbers).

Two other important things so you are fully prepared for all eventualities. Read the info on hypoglycemia. It's linked in the Tight Regulation sticky. You need to be familiar with the symptoms. Most cats do not experience symptomatic hypos here because we all home test. However, since dose reductions are earned when your cat's numbers drop below 50. So, you need to be able to manage the curve with food. You will need to stock up on high carb (HC) food. These are usually foods with gravy (e.g., Fancy Feast grilled, marinated, or Gravy Lovers varieties). Most of us also have a bottle of Karo or maple syrup or honey in the house. Extra strips are also essential. I always have at least one container of 50 strips in reserve.

Do you have a copy of Janet and Binky's food chart? It contains the carb count for most of the canned foods that are available.

 

[Mike&Buddy]

Take a look at this link to photos of syringes. There's one picture of a syringe with 1.0u of insulin as well as other doses. The very first line on the syringe is the zero line. The next, short line is 0.5u.

OK, will have a look at these. I need to understand these things better - ops, wait. This seems OK but I am still not sure if this corresponds to my 1/2 ml/cc syringes?

What the BG level is at PMPS should not necessarily dictate what you shoot. If Buddy's numbers are still high, you need to decide if you are going to shoot 0.5u or the 1.0u the vet recommended. Based on his 15lb ideal weight, the 1.0u should be fine. You will be sticking with whatever dose you choose for 5 - 7 days (providing Buddy dosen't drop into low numbers).

Buddy is under 15, his present weight is 10.08 lbs. He has lost quite a bit. The vet said 1 unit twice a day.. I think twice is too much!?

Two other important things so you are fully prepared for all eventualities. Read the info on hypoglycemia. It's linked in the Tight Regulation sticky. You need to be familiar with the symptoms. Most cats do not experience symptomatic hypos here because we all home test. However, since dose reductions are earned when your cat's numbers drop below 50. So, you need to be able to manage the curve with food. You will need to stock up on high carb (HC) food. These are usually foods with gravy (e.g., Fancy Feast grilled, marinated, or Gravy Lovers varieties). Most of us also have a bottle of Karo or maple syrup or honey in the house. Extra strips are also essential. I always have at least one container of 50 strips in reserve.

I have all kinds of stuff here even the insta-glucose tubes. Yes, gravy foods, etc. But we have a lot of Fancy Feast!

Do you have a copy of Janet and Binky's food chart? It contains the carb count for most of the canned foods that are available.

Yes, we sure do! Thats why everyone has been on FF for over a year.

 

[Dyana]

The first line on the syringe closest to the needle is the zero line, and the next little line after that is the 0.5 (half unit) line, and the next little line after that is the 1.0 (one unit) line. When you have plunger lined up with the 1.0 line, you will see two lines above it (the first little half unit line and the zero line).
Hope this helps. :razz:

 

[Mike&Buddy]

The first line on the syringe closest to the needle is the zero line, and the next little line after that is the 0.5 (half unit) line, and the next little line after that is the 1.0 (one unit) line. When you have plunger lined up with the 1.0 line, you will see two lines above it (the first little half unit line and the zero line).
Hope this helps. :razz:

Um, I think so. I hate fractions. :shock: Thank you! :smile:

No wait, when I do it like you said, the last reading like goes to 5. That makes the first line with these 1 unit. The space between the "0" line and the first line would be 1/2. Thats not much!

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

That's right. 0.5u or even 1.0u isn't much.

Also, whatever dose you choose, Lantus is given twice a day.

Does the image on the left look like the barrel of your syringe?

If so, each line, except the first line which is zero, is 0.5 units.

 

[Mike&Buddy]

That's right. 0.5u or even 1.0u isn't much.

Also, whatever dose you choose, Lantus is given twice a day.

Does the image on the left look like the barrel of your syringe?

If so, each line, except the first line which is zero, is 0.5 units.

Wait a minute? It looks like the one on the right, but the box is labeled ReliOn 1/2 ml/cc 30G 8mm. Now I thought 1/2 reading syringes show half readings? OK, I'm confused again!

 

[Dyana]

I went to ReliOn's website to find this:

NOTE: All 3/10cc syringes feature half unit markings.

What kinds of markings are on your syringes?
Our markings range from ½ unit to 2 unit increments, depending on the volume of the syringe. Here is the breakout:

•1cc - 2 unit increments
•1/2cc - 1 unit increments
•3/10cc - ½ unit increments

My syringes are Reli On Capacity 3/10 ml cc Gauge 29 Length 12.7 mm
So mine have the 1/2 unit markings (10 markings between the 5 and the zero line). You must have the one without the 1/2 unit markings, so each line on your syringes must be 1 unit. Sorry for the confusion. I guess we just figured you bought the 3/10cc with the 1/2 unit marks. You can and should get the ones with the half unit marks next time you buy some.

 

[Mike&Buddy]

I went to ReliOn's website to find this:

NOTE: All 3/10cc syringes feature half unit markings.

What kinds of markings are on your syringes?
Our markings range from ½ unit to 2 unit increments, depending on the volume of the syringe. Here is the breakout:

•1cc - 2 unit increments
•1/2cc - 1 unit increments
•3/10cc - ½ unit increments

My syringes are Reli On Capacity 3/10 ml cc Gauge 29 Length 12.7 mm
So mine have the 1/2 unit markings (10 markings between the 5 and the zero line). You must have the one without the 1/2 unit markings, so each line on your syringes must be 1 unit. Sorry for the confusion. I guess we just figured you bought the 3/10cc with the 1/2 unit marks. You can and should get the ones with the half unit marks next time you buy some.

OK, then they guy who sold these to me made me think I was getting the ones that showed half markings. Gesh! I'm stuck with them because I already open a bag and opened one to look at it and scan it. Oh, well.

Should have been these.. •3/10cc - ½ unit increments Yep, its OK. I am guessing it will be 1 unit, but then I can do the 1/2 if I have too.