BUD ... Anyone have any ideas as to why?

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eeraby

eeraby

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SS is up to date.

Seems like the PZI isn't working at all.... and neither is her pancreas kicking in anything.

Suggestions?
 
No brilliant ideas. It is interesting that she really responded to the new vial. Then she went back up. You got some nice numbers with a higher dose in December.

Nothing has changed - food, treats are all the same. And no infection or teeth problems? Maybe time for a complete curve this weekend?

Up to you. You just bought a new vial so you might experiment with PZI some more. One thing not to forget is that you are giving small doses and you haven't been doing it long. The one thing we don't have on this forum are people who have been giving insulin for years. If you go over to Lantus for example, there are people who have been experimenting with different doses for several years. Look at some of the spreadsheets of 2 and 3 year old members. I think it is frustrating that for some people it seems pretty straightforward and pretty simple. For others, it is a slog through the trenches.......
 
i had this myself beth...all i can say is the switch to lev has really amazed me. if you look at the ss there are seperate pages for pzi an lev and you can go to either page by hitting that word (lev...or..pzi) on lower left.
the results are blowing me away.
 
Marcy... that's when I started a new bottle ... thought the old one was bad. Is just for my reference.

She had an infection of some sort (vet thinks it had been there in late dec) that was diagnosed on 1/17 .. got a shot of AB and been on 1.5 AB 2x a day (liquid) for 10 days. Now on AB pills (Lord help us - need advice on putting the pill in her, too).. was dehydrated, got 150u subq

She's been absolutely great ... playful. purring. preening. loving.. not dehydrated at all.

Vet said on Tues, we'd probably have to go up to 1.0u

I don't get it. She was doing so well back at the end of Dec.

Lev, you say, Lori?


What do ya'll think we should do, short of changing to Lev?
 
Well, I would wait for the infection to clear. That certainly could be part of the problem.

Will she go along with pill pockets? Oliver always considered them as special treat - even with the pill inside.

Just think - one unit of insulin is not a big dose. Most people start at one unit.
 
Beth- I had never tried ab pills until this toe infection that Charlie has now. The pills (clindamycin) are TINY (like birth control pills or baby tylenol). I wrap them up in a tiny portion of the pill pocket and he has no idea he is taking a pill. It's much easier than trying to hold him while I squirt the medicine in his mouth. But i know that not all kitties are as easy to trick with the pills. I agree that you shouldn't get too discouraged until Bud's done with her medicine and her infection is all cleared up. Her numbers may come back down on their own. Hang in there!!
 
yes tom got his first script for lev at the same time as a round of ab's...i waited till he finished those before shooting the lev. don't want too many factors in the mix..too confusing!
 
Hopefully you will see some action on the 1u - I'm thinking she may need a BAM dose approach to see action. Generally speaking from what I have seen, their pancreas (when sputtering) will only kick in with time spent in good #s. If you hit pinks and reds for a few days, the pancreas often seems goes out of the picture altogether (or maybe it's insulin resistance builds up, whichever, sorry I don't know my terms!) and you need more insulin to get in good #s. Then once you can get them to spend some time back in the good #s, the insulin needs can go back down pretty fast.

From the Wiki: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperglycemia
"Through glucose toxicity, [hyperglycemia] suppresses pancreatic beta cells, meaning after 3-7 days of it, the pancreas will temporarily stop producing insulin"
Click to expand...
More here: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Glucose_toxicity

I hadn't actually read this exact bit before, it talks about a "glass floor" which we've talked about on the board before but in different words. I've called it breaking down through the high #s, so same thing. That's where a BAM dose is handy, so maybe the 1u will do the trick. I doubt you'll have to go very high in dose to get a response again (if that is the issue), but it can still be disconcerting when 0.2 worked one day and then you can't see a response on higher doses.

Here's an excerpt:
Suppresses insulin secretion (in cats)

According to Dr. E. Hodgkins and also Dr. J. Rand[3][4], hyperglycemia also suppresses insulin secretion from the beta cells. After just 3 to 7 days at 30mmol/L (540 mg/dL), Dr. Rand found only "minimal" insulin secretion from the beta cells. Combined with the insulin resistance, this means that once a cat becomes diabetic, it will tend to remain that way until treated with exogenous insulin.

Raises insulin requirements

Glucose toxicity can continue to raise insulin requirements for some time, even after the "glass floor" is broken and blood glucose is brought under control. This effect may take a long time (weeks) to wear off, due to the gradual healing of formerly glucose-damaged tissue.

As the damage from glucose toxicity is repaired, the tissues will heal; the process can take 1-12 weeks[5]. However, healing can take place only when blood glucose & fatty acid concentrations are reduced.
Click to expand...

Also if you have the other vial still, you could try that and see if you get a better response. If this is a new vial though and it looks ok, I would doubt that is the problem.

I'd wonder too if maybe the A/Bs could be raising BGs? I don't really know though. Might just need more insulin temporarily till the infection is all cleared up and A/Bs are done?

Sometimes too their insulin needs just change, one week one thing, a different week something else, and you never figure out why.
 
Pill pockets can be obtained in most pet food stores. They come in dog (large) and cat(much smaller) sizes. It is a malleable sort of jelly like substance with a hole in the middle to put the pill in. With small pills you can use just a little and mold it around the pill. But be sure to get the duck flavored allergy one---the others have sugar in them. I had lots of trouble pilling Squamee. For several weeks I was successful with these pill pockets---first by themselves, and then rolled in Fortiflora (a nutritional supplement that can be purchased on line). Also rolling Velveeta around the pill worked for awhile. Good luck!
 
Thanks ya'll.... Good info there. I'll read it thorougly tomorrow (and go get the pill pockets!)

355 +8 after 1.0u tonight.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...
 
looks like you got a good PS tonight YAY! hoping the improvement continues, looks like a good sign to me, maybe a breakthrough shaping up for tonight or tomorrow? sometimes you can see dramatic improvement on the 3rd or 4th cycle of a new dose, so I'd keep an eye out for a perfect nadir tonight or tomorrow, and if the PS is way down you might want to pull back just a teeny bit, 0.9 or a skinny 1 or whatnot depending on the #s. I'm thinking 1u may end up being too much for a maintenance dose, but it's too soon to say really, I'm just hoping :)
 
Gotcha! tyvm. Will get a +5 or +6 tonight.

PILL POCKETS!!!!!!!!!! yay! I ty, and my fingers ty, Claudia
 
lori and tom said:
the results are blowing me away.
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You've also had two courses of ABs since being on Lev... just trying to keep any comparison fair. :smile:

EDIT: Opps :oops: I saw your later post, I thought you were doing ABs while on Lev. Guess I was wrong?

I had instances where H needed more. Right about the time we switched to ProZinc it seemed H was needing 50% to almost double his old dose. That might have started before we switched. Another time I think it might have been due to constipation [and maybe pumpkin] - but no real proof for that. We got lucky and then his need went back down.
 
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