?? Bouncing??
- Thread starter Mphair84
- Start date
AmandaE
Member Since 2019
I think that bounces are normal for some cats... I've heard some members state that their cats bounced all the way to remission!!
Physcially... maybe if you gave more insulin than you intended to to your cat - that could cause BG to plummet and potentially result in a bounce, but if you have a well thought out dose that follows protocol your bounces are probably just Tuffy's normal response
I think to a certain extent you can't really control bounces, especially if your cat is not used to lower numbers.. it is just a part of the journey to regulation. I have read some articles that say that you can kind of steer the BG curve with food to lessen the drop to try and prevent bouncing, but I don't know if that would work for every kitty.
Hopefully some more experienced members can pop by and provide more insight
Physcially... maybe if you gave more insulin than you intended to to your cat - that could cause BG to plummet and potentially result in a bounce, but if you have a well thought out dose that follows protocol your bounces are probably just Tuffy's normal response
I think to a certain extent you can't really control bounces, especially if your cat is not used to lower numbers.. it is just a part of the journey to regulation. I have read some articles that say that you can kind of steer the BG curve with food to lessen the drop to try and prevent bouncing, but I don't know if that would work for every kitty.
Hopefully some more experienced members can pop by and provide more insight
Mphair84
Member Since 2018
I've heard of steering. I might try it. When I see him with lower numbers I tend to let it go because I'm curious how low it will bring him just so I know for reference. I feel like it will help with dosing adjustments in the future.
Next question, how long does it normally take for a cat to get use to lower numbers?
Next question, how long does it normally take for a cat to get use to lower numbers?
AmandaE
Member Since 2019
OoooOo. Standard answer here: each cat is different (ECID)
Mphair84
Member Since 2018
I know that. I wasn't really looking for an definite answer, but more so something that would give me an idea of what to expect. Like days, weeks, months.... Something along the lines of "it can take months before a cat gets use to lower numbers....". More like a time frameISH thing.
I wasn't really looking for an definite answer, but more so something that would give me an idea of what to expect. Like days, weeks, months.... Something along the lines of "it can take months before a cat gets use to lower numbers....". More like a time frameISH thing.
Tanya and Ducia
Member Since 2017
a little of each is needed.
Bounce is naturally built in defense mechanism and there is nothing to do but accept.
But you can help the bounces to become shorter and not as dramatic by "Feeding the curve" - HERE is the link to the discussion about it.
It is also possible that TK has Glucose Toxicity - HERE is some useful info. Not to be alarmed - it is temporary insulin resistance that can be resolved with methodical dose increases until the BG get back to normal levels.
AmandaE
Member Since 2019
For sure! I wish I had the answerI know that.
Mowgli still bounces from time to time especially when he gets into the dark greens. I actually think it is a case of every cat is different.
AliceMeowliss (GA)
Member Since 2019
@Tanya and Ducia thank you for sharing the link to the thread about “feeding the curve”!!! I would never have come across it on my own. 
apparently I’ve been doing this already.
apparently I’ve been doing this already.
Tanya and Ducia
Member Since 2017
AliceMeowliss (GA)
Member Since 2019
Thank you I was just thinking about how great a list of awesome links would be, earlier.
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
That link is outdated (12/2014) and will be removed. Not removing it once it had been replaced was simply an oversight on my part.
Here's the Latest version (updated Oct. 2017):
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/where-can-i-find-________.127890/.
Unfortunately even the updated version is currently out-of-date, but some good info can still be found there.
FYI:
The current 'Where Can I Find ______?' link can also be found at the bottom of the "New to the Group?" sticky at the top of this forum.
@Tanya and Ducia
@AliceMeowliss&Cassandra
Tanya and Ducia
Member Since 2017
Thank you, @Jill & Alex (GA) , the new version is so much better!
I wonder though if you’d consider unlocking an old post which I stumbled across just recently so it could be bumped up.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-low-is-too-low.142105/
The last paragraph contains link to the site that talks about “hypo unawareness”, a scary concept of which I had no idea. Several times in the past I had to wake up Ducia to test her BG only to find her below 40s. No symptoms. No hints. Was any damage done? IDK, it’s possible. And there are still a lot of posters who do rely on clinical observation alone v. testing. I think they need be informed of the dangers.
(Million apologies, @Mphair84 , for highjacking your condo, it’s just for one second!)
I wonder though if you’d consider unlocking an old post which I stumbled across just recently so it could be bumped up.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-low-is-too-low.142105/
The last paragraph contains link to the site that talks about “hypo unawareness”, a scary concept of which I had no idea. Several times in the past I had to wake up Ducia to test her BG only to find her below 40s. No symptoms. No hints. Was any damage done? IDK, it’s possible. And there are still a lot of posters who do rely on clinical observation alone v. testing. I think they need be informed of the dangers.
(Million apologies, @Mphair84 , for highjacking your condo, it’s just for one second!)
Jill & Alex (GA)
Member Since 2009
@Tanya and Ducia
Done.
Done.
Mphair84
Member Since 2018
No problem at all!!
@Tanya and Ducia , do you think Tuffy has glucose toxicity?
So I assume that TK gets the high BGs in the morning because he bounces from the blue numbers at night. That's why I'm so curious as the time frame it takes his body to get use to the blue numbers. I do know ECID, I just don't know if I should do something about the bounces or just wait for his body to fix itself.
Tanya and Ducia
Member Since 2017
I think given the SS numbers it cannot be ruled out.
TBH, I could never say GT from long bounces.
Have you thought of doing TR?
It would allow you to increase faster than SLGL does, and in case it is GT the increases can help to break it.
Your current testing schedule is already just like TR. You'd have less worries and doubts if you increase more frequently.
It is possible. But having Dawn Syndrome looks just like that - higher in the AM. Not to be alarmed - it sounds more daunting than it really is.
The thing is you can overcome the Glucose Toxicity but if TK is a serious bouncer (like my Ducia) then the bounces will remain and go on after the GT is gone. And then you'll work on them bounces. JMO Better to exclude as many variables as possible. Getting rid of GT - if is GT we are looking at in the SS - will clear the picture for you.
I would not wait because it can enable the GT to settle in for good. And then it'll be harder to deal with.
Mphair84
Member Since 2018
So I have thought about it, but I was waiting to run out of YAZ. I know one can't be on TR with dry. I believe it's because the dry food stays in the system too long?? Why exactly can't one do TR on dry?
If I stop the dry can I still give a little dry kibbles for cat treats? Or will ANY amount interfere?
I'm okay with trying to rule it out, but how will I know that I am? How do I start the process of jump starting? I did read the link above, I just don't know exactly how to apply it.
If I stop the dry can I still give a little dry kibbles for cat treats? Or will ANY amount interfere?
I'm okay with trying to rule it out, but how will I know that I am? How do I start the process of jump starting? I did read the link above, I just don't know exactly how to apply it.
Tanya and Ducia
Member Since 2017
When you do TR you increase every 6 cycles/3 days if no good nadirs are coming by adding 0.25U at a time .
Once you have green nadirs you know that the GT is being contained.
Then (if the dose is good) you will likely see good nadirs regularly interrupted by bouncing cycle(s) (how long is ECID but the TR suggests not holding doses for longer than 3 days). Then you will need to define what causes bounces and try to deal with that cause, the trigger of a bounce. There are several things that serve as bounce trigger but I do not want to overload you on the info. Bouncing cycles can be defined as temporary but the GT is constantly high numbers that do not budge easily to small dose increases.
once dry food is pout of the way you can try TR and that's the best thing to do IMHO.
With TR you (sort of) expose you cat to lower safe numbers time and again until the body got used to being in lower level than before. It means that sometimes TF can go unsafely low and will have to interfere with high carbs. Simple sugars such as found in honey, Karo or FF Gravy are absorbed trhu the mucus layer of the mount and take 15 - 25 min to affect the BG ECID thou.
The solid wet food often takes about 30-45 min, and the dry takes even longer which is not good/fast enough for a cat going down. You are spot on about dry staying long - some cats had felt the effect of dry HC for days to come producing higher numbers and pushing CG to increase to counteract all those extra carbs.ETA: Even a few pieces of dry HC could have effect.
Does it make any sense?
If things are unclear ask questions, if they are confusing then it is normal and you just need to keep reading/discussing AND let sometime to pass, do not force yourself to get it all overnight.
Mphair84
Member Since 2018
I am constantly re-reading the threads. It's like every time something else clicks. I just read the TR thread for the 4th time. Lol.
It does make sense. So the little dry he does is Young Again Zero, it's not supposed to have carbs. However, the other night he ate all his wet food, so I just gave him a little more dry. I find the information you just gave me to make sense because he was higher than usual that night. He was in the yellows and I was thinking that maybe it is the dry.
It does make sense. So the little dry he does is Young Again Zero, it's not supposed to have carbs. However, the other night he ate all his wet food, so I just gave him a little more dry. I find the information you just gave me to make sense because he was higher than usual that night. He was in the yellows and I was thinking that maybe it is the dry.
So does that mean that his levels won't be that low?
So if I change the dose every 3 days or so the way my schedule works I cant get mid day tests during the week. How do I know he doesn't get to low? Can I do TR with adjusting on weekends? Why is is not recommended to hold dose more than 3 days if not the numbers you like? Does it just like solidify the numbers you don't want?
Tanya and Ducia
Member Since 2017
I read it 400 times and tried to memorize it all at the begging, and then re-read afresh maybe a year ago and found something new
.it is about 5% or 6% carbs if I am not mistaken which are totally acceptable levels and it is not what the TR minds.
It its slow -liness that is the problem. When a cat goes down you won't have time for the dehydrated food to soak in enzymes, then to dissolve, and then to get absorb and only afterall of that to take an effect on a cat. You'll need something faster. And something which won't cozy itself into his body for the cycles to come but do the job of steering the numbers up and then leave with no consequences.
not necessarily. And it is not what is wrong with dry.
I know of at least one cat who had gone OTJ being on YA, there may be others. The carbs levels are acceptable for a diabetic cat but what is not acceptable is its digestive "length" for the TR practitioner who MUST have the reliable tool that brings the BG up quick. The dry simply cannot be processed by GI fast enough for a cat that goes into a Hypo zone. Wet food, gravy especially, does fill that role.
Did I make it more confusing? (I am very good at it!
)In short - no.
to prevent the Glucose Toxicity from settling in and muddle the waters.
Exactly. Keeping a dose that keeps cat in high numbers familiarizes cat's body to higher numbers and allows the GT to settle in setting thus the new higher norm for the body.
Mphair84
Member Since 2018
I feel like I get it more. I don't mean to hang on it, but he eats wet all day and a few kibbles dry for a "treat" in the AM, and PM. I would definitely be steering with wet. Would dry food kind of be like making his BG levels inaccurate in a way? I'm just trying to wrap my mind around to understand it.sorry for being frustrating.
Okay, so doing TR I would be forced to adjust during the week, however, Lantus I need the midday numbers. I won't be able to adjust on a Monday and get a midday until Friday. I would have to base some adjustments on PS #'s without nadir. How would that work?