Borderline Diabetic Cat

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lauradean

lauradean

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Hi Everyone,
I'm new to this site, but I'm really hoping to find people that are in the same situation as me. Meika is my 10 year old Calico and about 2 years ago started showing symptoms of diabetes. (Her sister from the same litter has been diabetic for over 5 years and responds very well to Canninsulin). Her blood sugar was only a 15 - which was "borderline" according to our vet. They were unsure how to treat so they tried 1 unit of Canninsulin 2 times a day.....but I noticed her acting really odd so I stopped injecting her and brought her back in. The vet said she had reverted out of being diabetic, and her blood sugar was too low. So we were just going to watch. She was fine up until about 4-5 months ago. Was given the same answer - try insulin again. I ended up changing vets.

It turns out that her glucose levels were higher this time - about 20..and they did a Fructosamine test that revealed that Meika's blood sugar is often normal and not high...so insulin at this point is not an option.....we can't have her get too low. So we're trying a wet food diet - Hills M/D ( but she is still getting some Hills M/D dry food which is around to free feed the other diabetic cat) but I notice she isn't improving. My heart is seriously broken and I don't know what to do! I have to do something for her, I can't keep making her live like this.

Does anyone have any (hopefully success) stories about treating a cat like this???
 
i'd try working on the diet. according to janet's food charts, the wet m/d is about 14% carbs and the dry is about 13%. you have room to play with there in the carb area. maybe try going to something a little better, something under 10%?? plus if you can eliminate the dry completely you'd be doing both kitties a favor as far as dehydration, kidneys, etc....goes

have you seen http://www.catinfo.org ?? if not, i'd strongly recommend it as it has great nutrition info
 
Hi and welcome.

I'm afraid I have more questions right now than answers.

You have one diabetic currently and a second suspected of being diabetic? Did I read that correctly?

I'm guessing you're not located in the States since you're using mmol/L and we usually report numbers in mg/dL.

"mg/dL: milligrams (MILL-ih-grams) per deciliter (DESS-ih-lee-tur), a unit of measure that shows the concentration of a substance in a specific amount of fluid. In the United States, blood glucose test results are reported as mg/dL. Medical journals and other countries use millimoles per liter (mmol/L). To convert to mg/dL from mmol/L, multiply mmol/L by 18. Example: 10 mmol/L × 18 = 180 mg/dL." http://www.felinediabetes.com/dictionar ... nary-3.htm

A 15 would be 270 and 20 would be 360, which are both diabetic numbers and would require insulin. What would help the most is if you would consider hometesting your kitty. This way you would know what the blood sugar and whether or not to give insulin.

Like Cindy mentioned, changing to canned food is a great idea for this kitty and your diabetic. Meika may be able to be diet controlled and even your other kitty may be able to get off insulin if food is the culprit. Does the sister cat get her blood sugar tested regularly, at the clinic or at home?
 
Thank you for responding! I really appreciate it!!

I have not seen that site just yet, I will definitely check it out!
Meika was diagnosed with Eosinophilic Granuloma Complex when she was only a few years old, and during her flare ups, our (old) vet would give her the steroid Depo injections. My (new) vet is concerned that Meika's diabetes is steroid induced....Are you (or anyone) familiar with that?
 
Hi tuckers mom,
Thank you for responding as well! I live in Ontario, which is why I was using a different system then you (sorry! I had no idea!)
Yes that is correct - Tink is diabetic and has been for approx 6 years.
Meika, is the "borderline" one. I am definitely not against home testing....I'm not familiar with this though. Is it really painful for them? Both cats were great with the needles, hopefully they would have a similar response?
 
Please don't worry about how you post the numbers, I just wanted to make sure I had the correct information.

Just ask questions, no worry about us right now :)

My Bean was steroid induced diabetic but after being off the steroids, moving to my home and changing her diet, she is off insulin.

Regarding the Eosinophilic Granuloma Complex, what does that mean? I thought that meant that they once had an infection, but maybe not now. I'm not an expert at all, so forgive me. My kitty, Mr. Darcy who is also off insulin now, diet controlled had a very high Eos number. The vet thinks he may have had some infection or worms at some point, but there's nothing I need to be doing for that.

Home testing does not hurt. I have three FDs now, two that are not on insulin and I test their blood sugar occasionally and even without doing it daily like I do for Tucker, those two don't budge when it's time, they just sit there, let me test and get their treat.

Is Meika off the Depo now?
 
Thank you for being so helpful!!! :)

That EG complex (I was told) was the reason she was having severe almost allergic reactions. The pads on her feet started to dry up and crumble OFF her body! As well, her lip would swell and would get infected (as well as her....well, she couldn't really clean herself properly, so her bum too). She would have flare ups and need the depo to calm everything down. She has not had an injection for almost a year.

I have another apt with my vet tonight, and I know before she had mentioned home testing. I can find out more from her - I really appreciate your help with everything....it's nice to know other people have been there before...and that it will get better. I just feel so awful and I have to make her better....so I'm willing to try anything!!
 
When I first learned that Tucker had diabetes it broke my heart, I was so scared. I learned to hometest but was using a terrible meter that needed so much blood that I felt like I was sewing a quilt on Tucker's ear to get blood.

But in a short time I found a new meter, learned to give treats and love and it got so easy that I adopted another FD named Sadie before I found this site in 2006. Since then I've adopted a few others. Some came off insulin, others had other issues and did not come off insulin, but by changing their diets all of my cats, even my civvies - which is code for civilian cat that does not have FD (feline diabetes) - they all feel better on a better diet. Without the dry food.

When you get a moment check out the health links: viewforum.php?f=14

But, maybe before you see the vet, check out this link with information and videos from members that show how to hometest.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=287
 
Hi
I just wanted to welcome you and say that I am from Ontario as well, and my cat is a steroid induced diabetic. He has taken steroids for years for inflammatory bowel disease. There are quite a few members from Ontario on this board. Home testing will give you a lot of info about what is happening with your cats. The Fructosamine test will only give you an idea of an average value over a wide time period. I encourage you to read up on the links you will find on the board about home testing and diet.
Welcome!
 
My Megan is a transient diabetic - is diabetic briefly from time to time and then becomes non-diabetic for most of the time. When she has had steroids for one thing or another, her BG does go up noticeably, so, yes, the Depo shots can definitely be playing a role here. Any infection will also make Megan's BG rise; clearing it up will bring the BG back down.

Diet was the key for her. I feed her as if she were a full-blown diabetic (always under 10% carbs, from Janet & Binky's list), and the result is that her BG normally runs in very low numbers (62 [US] last Saturday).

You write as if the minimum insulin dosage possible is 1 unit. Smaller doses are definitely possible and may be just the thing in a case like yours. Some kitties get only 1/10 of a unit per shot (which is only a drop). Lots of others get something between .1 and a whole unit. And some get that tiny bit of insulin only intermittently, when their BG goes up. (Not every insulin works well used intermittently, but some do.)

Do read up on hometesting. It has been a lifesaver for us, and Megan really and truly doesn't seem to mind a bit. When I recently had to test twice a day because of one of those brief rises, she would purr through the testing. She actually got more relaxed with it when I had to test more often than normal - which in her situation is only once every week or two if everything is going well.
 
Hi there,
I am also in Ontario.
All I have to say is cut out ALL DRY FOODS. You may find that you have better numbers, and you may have no need to give any insulin to your 2nd cat.

If you are not home testing, please stop at a pharmacy and pick up a meter to test your cats' BG numbers yourself. The fructosamine test is just a total waste of your money and of no use because if you are testing regularly why pay money for a test when you have all the numbers in your meter?

Human diabetics test their blood sugar a half dozen times a day; why would a vet think it's not important to do the same for our pets?

Once you are testing, you will see the true immediate numbers for your cats, and not a single number that is merely an average from the last few months.

Home testing and feeding low carb wet food. Two vital musts for the health of your cats.
 
Thank you everyone for the feedback and advice. It absolutely makes sense that a human checks more then 1 time per day, why shouldn't an animal? And I was told by my old vet that the smallest dose would be 1 unit... I mistakenly believed her. That is very re-assuring to know that there are lower doses if Meika needs it.

Last night's apt was just a urine and blood test...I didn't get to see the vet. Needless to say I was upset, and disappointed. I'm waiting to hear the results today, and barely slept last night. She really hasn't been herself (even her usual diabetic lethargic self) the past few days, and I'm absolutely sick with being worried and upset. I know Ketones aren't super common, but is anyone familiar with this? I read about the symptoms but it's so difficult because diabetes makes her drink lots of water, pee a lot, lethargic etc. Is there anything that stands out as being definitely ketones?

In terms of wet food, I was under the impression (from the vet) that Hills M/D was the best for diabetic cats? But after looking at that site and reading that it was over 10% carbs, does anyone recommend another brand?

The really frustrating thing (and I'm sorry to vent) is my sister refuses to change anything with Tinkerbelle (her diabetic cat.) It took her a long time to find something that worked (Canninsulin 3 units 2 times a day) so getting her to change dry food was already a battle! They were eating dry Hills R/D!!!! But I finally convinced her to change to Hills M/D. She is worried that if we play around with Tink's glucose levels, she could get worse too. I don't want to have to lock Meika up in a small room all day so she has no access to the dry...but I might have to.

I'm definitely going to check out this home testing...it sounds like it might be the answer - or atleast part of the solution!!! Thank you for being so supportive about this....I'm sure everyone has felt this horrible and helpless...and it's nice to know it get's better....I hope!
 
If you haven't had a chance to do it yet, go see the Janet and Binky food lists.
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/index.html
Look in the carb column and select varieties with carbs under 10%. You can get good low carb foods for a fraction of what you are paying for m/d. A lot of the variieties listed on the USA tables are not available here, but you can still find many of them here. Wellness foods are good, but a bit more expensive. A lot of people on this board feed Fancy Feast. Look for the pate varieties, and avoid anything that is grilled, minced, sliced, or marinated. Any chunks with gravy food will be high carb (I keep some of these on hand for when my cat's blood glucose goes too low. It brings the BG back up very quickly). A lot of people also feed Friskies varieties, which are even more budget conscious.

You can check the urine ketones at home. I can get a urine specimen from my cat by sneaking up on him with a ladle while he is in the litter box, and sticking it under him to catch the urine. You can buy ketostix at the pharmacy (behind the counter - ask the pharmacist) and follow the directions on the box. I understand that a cat with high ketones may also have a distinctive acetone smell to the breath.

Let us know how the test results turn out.
 
Linda and Bear Man - your comment made me laugh! haha sneaking up with a ladle!! Good idea though!

I just heard back from the vet - so it's good news and bad news. She does not have ketones (thank god)!!! and her fructosemine levels indicated that it was definitely not being controlled by diet. Her blood sugar has gotten higher - to a point where they are comfortable trying insulin. So as much as it's not a good thing that her sugar was higher....it kind of is because now it's at a range we can treat. I am going in tonight to get all the info and insulin....I almost have a sense of relief, and I'm feeling a lot more optimistic that she is going to get better!!

I will have a look for Fancy Feast - we definitely have that around here. And I will have a more in depth look at Janet & Binkys food list!!
 
I don't know if you are going to continue with Caninsulin. I use Lantus (glargine) insulin. It can be purchased at the drug store without a prescription. Also, make sure you go to the drugstore and get a blood glucose meter and test strips. The model I use is outdated, but a lot of people use the Accuchek Aviva. Look for someone who will give you a free meter with the purchase of 100 strips. It sounds like your kitty could do very well with a proper diet and a bit of insulin.
 
If you do switch to Lantus (human insulin) also get syringes 3/10cc 31ga U100

If the Caninsulin is U40 (40 units per milliliter), the syringes are different because it is dilute compared to human insulins.

Definitely you can give less than 1 unit

Rusty gets 0.5u BID
Tiggy gets 0.25u BID

We use Levemir U100 and use 3/10cc syringes with half-unit marks

Regarding the home testing - we poke the edge of the ear for a tiny blood sample. The cats don't seem to mind too much other than having to HOLD STILL! My kitties like to shake their head and the blood drop goes flying ---- so I have to hold their ear while the blood drop is getting bigger (have to get to a certain size before putting in the test strip) and pet them to get them to hold still.
 
Phoebe_Rusty_Tiggy_Norton said:
If you do switch to Lantus (human insulin) also get syringes 3/10cc 31ga U100
Click to expand...

Good point. And if you decide to go with Lantus or Levemir and the U100 syringes, look for the ones with 1/2 unit markings.
 
You guys are seriously amazing!!! Thank you so much for your help! I at least won't feel like a complete rookie buying these strips and monitor! My new vet is amazing and she very much prefers glargine - so that is the one we are going to start with. We're starting low at 1 dose 2 times a day - and are going to monitor and see how she's doing (just in case she goes too low) and possibly raise it if she needs it. I finally feel like I'm on the right path!!
 
Hi there, and welcome. You have come to the right place to learn evrything you can for your baby.

My experience is with a borderline cat also. And I chose not to start insulin and try the diet change first, although my vet wanted to start insulin immediately, "for maybe just a little while".
I got the meter and urine test strips for glucose (because I had a hard time getting blood for two weeks) and ketones.
I got the LOWEST carb food on the list (walmart special kitty tuna & shrimp, I think) and fed her that. I didn't care that it was fish and that it's not supposed to be good for her all the time, but....It worked for us! I was terrified of shooting insulin and having to leave for work for 9 hours....

Diet controlled diabetes is possible! and borderline, is the perfect situation for it. IMO.
Many cats here have done it.
Good luck!
 
lauradean said:
My new vet is amazing and she very much prefers glargine - so that is the one we are going to start with. We're starting low at 1 dose 2 times a day - and are going to monitor and see how she's doing (just in case she goes too low) and possibly raise it if she needs it. I finally feel like I'm on the right path!!
Click to expand...

I suggest you visit the Lantus insulin support group on this board, and read up on all the stickies there. There is a ton of good information. Go ahead and start a thread on the Lantus board and introduce yourself. You will get a lot of good feedback from experienced Lantus users there.
 
Hi there from Toronto!

Just wanted to say welcome to the FDMB!

You've gotten tons of great info and feedback, I just wanted to give you a tip on the Lantus purchase.

Cosco- no membership or prescription needed - 5 pack/3ml vials approx $95 - good deal! The 5 pack will last you about 5-6 months.
Shoppers Drug Mart and possibly the other chain drugstores - same thing - no prescription needed, but the same 5 pack is about $120

You may want to withhold the info that it's for a cat, pharmacist can get a little weird about that and look at ya funny :lol:


Good luck to you and hope to see you in the Lantus forum when you are good to go!
 
Thank you for your help with the Lantus - I just had a brief look through some of the threads....some really helpful information there as well!! This site is awesome!

We're starting Meiks on a very small dose (1 unit x 2 times a day) - just for 10 days or so. Our vet is worried Meika will go too low. She did this when I started her on Caninsulin 2 years ago.....1 unit put her sugar far too low (but side note: her blood sugar was only like 12-15 at the time.) I'm going in again today just to make sure her sugar is okay (most likely still high) and we're going to go from there.

In terms of the glucometers...can you buy these just anywhere (like Shoppers, etc) or does it have to be from a Vet or a specific place?
 
Lantus is a nice gentle insulin, hopefully you won't have the big drops like you did in the past.

You can get a glucometer and any pharmacy, just look for one that sips the blood and uses a small amount. One Touch Ultra, AccuCheck Aviva, Maxima, there's lots to choose from.

You'll get a better idea about how Meika is doing when you test at home. There's less stress from the ride to the vet, being out of the house, being at the clinic, all that stuff can make the blood sugar go higher.
 
lauradean said:
Thank you for your help with the Lantus - I just had a brief look through some of the threads....some really helpful information there as well!! This site is awesome!In terms of the glucometers...can you buy these just anywhere (like Shoppers, etc) or does it have to be from a Vet or a specific place?
Click to expand...

Yes, go to Shoppers or any other drug store. There may be a display offering a free meter with purchase of 100 strips. Or, got to the website for the meter you have in mind, and print off a coupon. (Make sure you go the Canadian website). For instance, Aviva has coupons for free meters on their website:
http://www.accu-chek.ca/ca/en_CA/circle ... npage.html
The meter package will also contain a lancet device and a few lancets.

If you open a daily thread on the Lantus suport group, and post your BG test results there, you will get a lot of feedback concerning your numbers and your dose.
 
You guys are amazing!!!!
I seriously don't know where I'd be without your help/advice! Thank you sooo much!! That coupon will definitely come in handy too! :)

Meika came in and cuddled with me before bed last night (complete with purring and kisses) - first time she's done that in a while. I finally feel like I can breathe again....I think I'm really going to like Lantus!!
 
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