Boots new numbers are on a SS

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lizwardia

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What's going on?? I changed the food to wet and figured it would drop, but ???? Also, I switched to a longer needle after reading the posts about skin shots. I know, bad timing. There was just so much info and it seems plausible that I was doing it wrong and getting in the skin since 5 was considered a high dose.

4/12
amps 365
+3 328
+9 278
pmps 162
+3 80

4/13
amps 45

Background:
Boots found me on 2/12 after a fight with raccoon (he had been checking out the house since Jan.), neutered and bandaged up with a new home, not recovering so vet treated for worms, stomach bacteria (antibiotic), ear mites and fungus, no cortisone as far as I know. Still got sicker,tested high BG, started 1 unit on 3/2, tested once a week with vet, now up to 5 units.

And won't low carb food bring on ketones? When I was on the Atkins diet that was supposed to happen. He's been negitive but I'll check next p. Does it matter if I get litter on the strip?

I'm not going to give him any insulin till I hear back from you all. I'll keep testing on the hour. or sooner????????????
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

Did you shoot this morning? If not, do not shoot this number.

Was your PM +3 really 804?
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

Hi,

I think you want to test every half hour and look for a rise. In thins case, people might even advise testing every 15 mins. I can't give any advice about dosing.

I think you might want to work on your subject line to make clearer what the item is that needs attention. I read "+3=804" and my eyes nearly fell out! Perhaps start with the 4/13 data?

Hang in there!
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

Good idea not to shoot right now. Test in fifteen minutes and see where you at. Going to check out your ss.

eta: oops, no spread sheet. would be very helpful for us to help you if you could get a spread sheet up and running
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

I think I should read PMPS 162, +3=80 4/13 (Apr. 13) AMPS =45

You were shooting a pretty low PMPS (I assume this is one of the lowest preshots you've seen) and he may have been still dropping because you got 80 at +3 (at +3 normally the new shot has just started working) I'm also not sure sure what dose you have been giving, you mention 5, is that what you gave last night or did you change the dose while changing food/needles and your socks :-D

Anyway you don't want to give insulin right now (45 is to low to give anything) and you will definatly need to adjust your dose when you are able to give insulin again. Like already mentioned keep testing every 15-30 minutes and tell us what your getting.
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

Sienne and Gabby said:
Did you shoot this morning? If not, do not shoot this number.

Was your PM +3 really 804?
Click to expand...

AGREE!
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

I suspect you need to refresh your screen and figure no one has replied. So, for future reference, if you are waiting for help to arrive, remember to refresh the screen.

LC food can and does have a dramatic effect on numbers. It's why we reinforce how important it is to test when you are switching over. It should not cause ketosis. A cat's metabolism is different than a humans. Cats are obligate carnivores and cannot adequately metabolize fruits, veggies, grains, or other carbs.
 
Re: HELP!!4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 80 4/13amps 45

After 30 minutes and 1 can of wet food (low carb) the BG is 66.
Here are the previous two day results. I am working everyday on trying to figure out how to get the spreadsheet to my signature but don't understand the instructions. Both the testing and the computer are new to me. I am sorry for the inconvenience.
4/10
bought the meter
+6 213
+10 330
pmps 375
+2 419
+6 520
4/11
amps 275
+3 281
+6 161
pmps 156
+3 251
I haven't given any insulin this morning and don't plan to until you tell me what to do. He was upset to get another test before he forgave me for the last one. But I know this can save his life. I am very scared about him dropping too low and going into a coma. I did get the karo.
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

Sorry about those huge letters, learning every day. I have kept the 5 unit dose since April 6, last Tuesday. His vet apt. showed 350 BG. I will keep testing.
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

hey it's ok - no need to apologize. you're upset - you're trying to do what is best for the cat AND you are figuring out how to post.

Let's see if we can furtther help you.

where are u located?

do you know anything about putting together a spreadsheet?

Do you have a complete list of tests that you've done since you started testing? we can help you put together the spreadsheet and then get it linked to your signature.

Once it's put together, you will just go to google docs to update and maintain.

I'll help you get it set up - but need the list of numbers - do you have that - can you private message (PM) it to me. I will send you a PM with my email address - to find it - go to the top of the page and there will be a button that says new messages click on that and it will take you to the PM.
 
Re: HELP!! 4/13amps 45

Please try not to worry. Of course, that doesn't mean you don't have to be careful, but you will be careful and you can be in control. You can do a lot for your kitty with small amounts of food to keep his BG from going too low. The first time it happened to us, we were panicked. We reached the point of feeling perfectly calm about it and just getting out the kitty smorgasbord. ;)
 

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Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

Hi Liz,

Where are you located? It's possible that there is another member near-by that could help you get set up.
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

Going to say thanks to Hillary for offering to help you out with the Spreadsheet. That will be very helpful!

As Hillary asked, where are you located? There may be a few folks who live close to you that could give you some help w/learning how to work the board, etc. We are here for you and Boots. We understand that you are trying to do your best for your buddy and there is a lot to sink your teeth into.
Don't worry, we got ya!
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

oops, double post...just going to erase this and go about my business!
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

Liz:

No cause for panic. You can't have a hypo if you having given a shot!

How much time has elapsed since your usual shot time? That will help us to sort out whether you should give a shot this morning. From what you posted, you have a BG of 66 at PMPS +12.5 (that's 12 and 1/2 hours since your shot last night).
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

Boots usually get his shot at 8 am and 8 pm so we're going on two hours. I am going to test again in 15 minutes.
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

If Boots' numbers haven't risen considerably when you post your next test, I'd like to suggest that you skip this morning's shot. With the food change, there's some significant emptying of Boots' shed that needs to be done.

How would you feel about reducing the dose to 1.0u for tonight? It's pretty clear that the change to LC food has decreased Boots' insulin needs.
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

Not really +2 because no shot was given but the results were low again 43. OK, so no shot this morning?? THis is where it gets scary. I read about roller coasters and sheds and ... wow
4/13 No shot given today because of low amps reading
amps 45
+12 1/2 66 (after can of food)
+1 62
+2 43
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

wow! look at those numbers! :)

did you see the note in your thread the other day about Lisa and Spooky being in West Melbourne? Send her a PM and hook up with her to see if she can help you figure out the board or spreadsheet or whatever. She's been around FDMB for years and years and years :cool:
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

lizwardia said:
Not really +2 because no shot was given but the results were low again 43. OK, so no shot this morning?? THis is where it gets scary. I read about roller coasters and sheds and ... wow
4/13 No shot given today because of low amps reading
amps 45
+12 1/2 66 (after can of food)
+1 62
+2 43
Click to expand...
So, no shot this morning means your times are +13 and +14, rather than +1 and +2 because they are relative to the last shot given.

You're doing great. If you get a chance, Edit your original post and put a space before the 4/13 date, it looks like you had a horrible test at +3 when actually it was quite a good catch. And congratulations on successful home testing, this is a great example of why it's so important!
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

No shot on that kind of number. Even someone with a lot of data would be hesitant to shoot that low of a number. Just so you understand our convention re. posting numbers, if you skip a shot, you are counting the hours from your last shot. So, if it's 2 hours past your AM shot time and you've not given a shot, the time is PMPS +14.

I'd also see if Boots is hungry. I'm guessing he is and it's fine to feed him more if he wants. These numbers are low.

What do you think about reducing the dose to 1.0u tonight? Numbers may be high from the lack of insulin this morning, but you will be shooting a safe amount.

Let me also suggest that you start a new condo for today and recap what's happened this morning. We open a new condo every day for our kitties -- one condo per cat per day. You also cut and paste the URL from the previous condo into your first post of the current day.

You can also edit your first post and remove the 911/help. You're doing great!
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

Yes, I will send a PM now that I know what that means. I think I responded somehow but there's no guarantee it went her way...
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

Wow looks like some fun times today for Boots and you! Thank goodness for hometesting! Great catch!

As frustrating as learning the board is being for you.. on top of all the lingo and everything feline diabetes.. you are doing great.. with a PS number like 43.. on a dose like 5 units.. for all the struggles you've had and mistakes you may or may not have done.. you got through it and did the right stuff by Boots today that's for sure!
 
Re: HELP!! 4/12amps365,+3 328,,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 804/13amps 45

Thank you all for your help and your kindness most of all.
I'll continue testing every hour today and have no problem lowering the dose to 1 unit tonight, Sienne. Especially if the numbers stay below 100.
I will also go back and edit my post but I lost you on condos and urls...
 
Re: 4/12amps365,+3 328,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 80 4/13 amps 45

Hi Liz. there's a lot of Techie stuff to learn as well as the FD stuff. Don't worry, it will come. " Condo " is this thread and "URL" is a link to a webpage, usually your Condo from yesterday, so we can get back quickly to take a look at what happened then.

The people who are helping you are great. They'll walk you through this. You're doing great, too. Welcome to the exciting world of LantusLand. nailbite_smile

After things calm down come back and read this part. One good thing to know is that to change your Subject line in the list of posts, go to your first post in the thread (Condo) , click "edit" box in the top of the window, in the new window that opens click in the subject box and make your changes. You can now ask for help in after you have already posted, update BG numbers, etc. If you just put the changes in your subject for a new post it won't show on the list and you won't get the extra attention.
 
Re: 4/12amps365,+3 328,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 80 4/13 amps 45

Boots most likely won't stay below 100.. in fact he will probably climb a lot higher than you want to see.. and will probably be higher for the next while than you want to see.. but it's a bit of a process for both you and Boots.. Lantus works really well when there are multiple shots in a row of the same amount.. (like 3-5 days worth).. skipping shots mucks things up somewhat.. but he was so low today it's simply not safe to shoot.

5U is obviously too high for Boots now especially with his food changes.. so the idea is to go to a much lower dose.. and approach the numbers slowly from the high end while collecting data with hometesting.. instead of plummeting right past them and having to skip shots.. Lantus needs consistency..

You probably don't need to test him TONS today during this cycle.. since it is expected that he will rise throughout the cycle.. but the more you do, the more practice you get.. and that's not a bad thing :)..

Also I didn't catch if someone replied to your carbs question.. a cats natural diet is considerably different than a humans... they don't need all the food groups like we do.. meat.. and vitamins.. and that's about it.. most cat food doesn't resemble what a cat would eat in the wild and what their bodies are designed to handle.
 
Re: 4/12amps365,+3 328,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 80 4/13 amps 45

I think you can very safely not over-poke Boots ears. I'm a testaholic and I would never tell someone to not test every hour if they want to but testing every 2 or 3 hours is fine. There's no insulin on board.

A condo is what we call your thread for the day. We get to visit each others' condos.
The URL is the location code at the top of the page. It begins with "http". You cut and paste the one from your condo of the previous day into today's condo.

Here's the guide to our slang: http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/r ... sg-1402630. This is linked in the "New to Lantus" sticky at the top of the Board. There's lots of helpful info in there.
 
Re: 4/12amps365,+3 328,+9 278, pmps 162,+3 80 4/13 amps 45

hi there. what a morning you've had! you're doing an excellent job!

i *think* this is where you're at:
amps 45
+12.5 66 (after can of food)
+13 62 (13 hours after the last shot?)
+14 43 (14 hours after the last shot?)

i'm going to disagree with my friend, cheryl (sienne). continue testing until you see a nice rise in the numbers. you want to see kitty's numbers over 50 or 60. kitty may bobble up and down for a bit. if below 50, feed and retest 30 minutes later to see if there's a rise. post your numbers as you get them. once you have a nice rise, you'll be able to stop testing.

don't be surprised if kitty's numbers shoot up high at some point today. please post your pmps number before shooting any insulin tonight. we may need to skip another shot to drain a 5u bid shed...
 
4/13 Boots amps 45,+12 1/2 66, +13 62, +14 43, +15 57, +19 3

OK, it happened Boots bounced back up. What do I do now? Normal shot time is 8 pm.
4/12
amps 365
+3 328
+9 278
pmps 162
+3 80
4/13
amps 45
+12 1/2 66
+13 62
+14 43
+15 57
+19 362
 
Re: 4/13 amps 45,+12 1/2 66, +13 62, +14 43, +15 57, +19 362

No worries. The bounce isn't unexpected and if you go back through some of the posts, several people mentioned that it was very likely to happen. In fact, if you look at Jill's note, she mentioned that this could be the case. (Jill is one of the very experienced FDMB members and has extensive experience with both Lantus and Levemir. She's way more experienced than I am.)

The reason that rebound occurs is that Boots' system isn't used to being in "normal" BG levels. Instead, his system, like that of most of our kitties, gets used to high numbers. So, when these lower, normal numbers occur, the body goes into self-protection mode. The result is that the liver panics and dumps glucose and counter-regulatory hormones into the system and number soar. That's what's happened here. It's a normal response. We quasi-affectionately refer to this as your cat taking lessons in "liver training school" (LTS). As Boots gets used to being back in lower numbers, hopefully there will be less bouncing.

Still plan on collecting some tests. Post your +23 number so we will have time to give you a hand with your PMPS dose.
 
Re: 4/13 amps 45,+12 1/2 66, +13 62, +14 43, +15 57, +19 362

You're wonderful, thank you. I will post the results you suggested so I'll know what to do at 8pm.
 
Re: 4/13 amps 45,+12 1/2 66, +13 62, +14 43, +15 57, +19 362

lizwardia said:
You're wonderful, thank you. I will post the results you suggested so I'll know what to do at 8pm.
Click to expand...
I agree wholeheartedly...They are wonderful aren't they!! I've been helped soooo much also.
 
4/13 BOOTS new numbers are on a SS!!

dancing_cat Thank you Hillary. Everybody look what's on the bottom of my note! Boots' SS!!!! and a dancing cat too.

But he's still rising, as expected, bg is up to 449. This morning Dawn said "5U is obviously too high for Boots now especially with his food changes.. so the idea is to go to a much lower dose.. and approach the numbers slowly from the high end while collecting data with hometesting.. instead of plummeting right past them and having to skip shots.. Lantus needs consistency.." Thank you, Dawn!
So, does the dosing work the same way in the opposite direction? How much less do I start giving him? Can I stay on the same schedule? Is there a specific time to give the insulin, ie. 30 minutes after food is finished, while eating? I'm guessing that it doesn't matter how high the numbers get now till 8pm because of the slow change with lantus.
Thank you Sienne for taking time out from work to help with Boots, it is very reassuring to know that someone is out there.

So does he get 4? 4.5? 3.5? Or do I start all over again with 1?
 
Should take food away at or before +10 in any cycle.. so 2 hours before shot time.. so that you know your preshot test is free of food spikes.. can feed while you shoot (as a distraction :) ) or right after.. I do:
test->shoot->feed.. all within about 5 minutes.

I think the "proper" way is test->feed->shoot? doesn't really matter as long as you test first.. and do them all together..

You'll still do the shots 12 hours apart like before.. as for the dose.. I have absolutely no idea :)... I leave that to the smart dosing advice peoples :).
 
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