BG levels normal- still peeing outside box?

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Cherylockholmes

Cherylockholmes

Member Since 2013
Hello. Over the last few days, after switching foods, (interestingly, from an extremely low carb/high protein one to one with slightly higher carbs (but still under 10g) and less protein), Joplin seems to have been in a great range (mostly all in blues and greens!) for the first time since his diagnosis in May, which is a huge relief, BUT, just now (just tested him at a 62), he walked over to my desk, backed up to it and peed all over it! :sad: He has been peeing everywhere, all over my carpets, on my furniture, stairwells. I had hoped it was just because his BG was so high he was "out of it" and couldn't find his way to the litterbox. If I get the sense he needs to go, I pick him up and put him in the litter room, and he goes in the box, but it seems that otherwise, for the most part, he just pees wherever. How long does this usually take to get better? Before being DX'ed he never peed outside of the box!!
 
Always start with a vet visit.

It might be something besides diabetes - UTI, renal disease, hyperthyroidism, bladder stones, etc.

Here is a list I compiled previously. Some of the items may not apply (like gender!)

***********************************************************************

You might try an integrated approach using multiple options from the list below on a consistent basis:

* start with crating, using a medium large crate (30" long is big enough for cat and a litterbox) until progress. She probably won't go where she'd have to lie in it ... but if she does, something is wrong and it may be medical.

* tarps and newspapers may be easier on clean up if you don't crate her

* feeding on a schedule and then placing her in the litterbox (maybe in a crate) within 15-20 minutes after eating, until she goes, then praising and letting her out.

* Feliway/Comfort Zone - friendly facial pheromones which reduce stress and may reduce marking behavior. Cheapest prices are usually on the net (ex http://www.LambertVetSupply.com ) I've used it and it helps.

* Cat Attract litter - supposed to help attract cat to litter box

* rule out arthritis or constipation - pain causes box avoidance

* watch if the other cats ever attack her in the box and if so, you may need to keep her separated from them. I've got one the others attack, completely unprovoked.

* littebox should be 1.5 times length of cat, litter cleaned frequently, but avoid really strong smelling cleaners as cats may avoid them due to the scent.

* you've got to get residual odors out from areas which were 'nailed' - Nature's Miracle is one option and has good reviews. It _can_ require repeated applications.

* regular play sessions of about 15 minutes to reduce stress and promote bond with you

* reward desirable behaviors - if you see her use the box, praise and treat her

* put unpleasant textures in places she has peed to encourage avoidance

* read some of this author's books: http://www.catbehaviorassociates.com/ she's pretty good - ex "Starting from Scratch"

Good luck.
 
pteacher said:
Is he neutered? Has he been tested for a UTI?
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Yes, neutered and no test for UTI. I do have a vet appt. on Tues. but this started almost exactly when he was diagnosed diabetic. I doubt he has a UTI because he urinates frequently, in large amounts, and doesn't seem in pain, or straining in any way.
 
Cherylockholmes said:
pteacher said:
Is he neutered? Has he been tested for a UTI?
Click to expand...

Yes, neutered and no test for UTI. I do have a vet appt. on Tues. but this started almost exactly when he was diagnosed diabetic. I doubt he has a UTI because he urinates frequently, in large amounts, and doesn't seem in pain, or straining in any way. Have you guys had cats that peed in inappropriate places when BG was high? I know it is a symptom, but do you agree that it should go away once BG levels are normal?
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I think I would try a completely different type or brand of litter and a different litter box (maybe two), placed in different locations around the house. I am thinking maybe your cat developed an aversion to the box and associates it with feeling bad (and having to pee frequently) from the diabetes. Now that he is feeling better, he may be still be leery of the old box (LOL!!). Cats are strange. If he has no other health issues, I think trying different litters, boxes, and placement might be worth a try. :)

Also, I would make sure there are no other neighborhood cats lurking around (to the extent you can). I saw an episode of "My Cat From Hell" (LOL!!) on tv where a cat was marking inside due to anxiety from neighborhood cats patrolling and peeing directly outside the windows - the indoor cat was anxious and trying to protect his territory. I also remember an episode where the guardians put a harness on the cat and took him outside to mark/pee daily -- and that seemed to calm him down too. It was all about territoriality. Love that show! :)

In your case though, I would try the different litters/box placement first (if no other medical issues are present).

:)
 
Thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions. I brought him to the vet yesterday, along with his records from his previous vet. I switched vets because the one he's been going to never even HEARD of Lantus when I brought it up with him (he's the vet that put him on Vetsulin to start). Simply knowing that fact made me not comfortable having him manage Joplin's diabetes because obviously he's not familiar with how Lantus works, etc. So I brought him to his new vet (who prescribes Lantus regularly), and to my shock and upset, he said that in looking at Joplin's tests from April, it appeared he had a slight UTI!!! NOBODY TOLD ME!!!! Now, he did put him on an antibiotic at the time for his teeth, so theoretically that should have taken care of the problem, but nobody told me! Hello! I'm so mad. :evil:

So, I collected a urine sample and should hear back today his results. I hate to say this, but I'm almost hoping he has an infection so that his peeing can be explained. I'd hate to think this is behavioral, because that will be a difficult thing to correct. Anyway, I will keep you posted, and thanks again for the other suggestions!
 
To clearly ID a UTI and what will treat it, they should do a culture and sensitivity (C & S) on a specimen drawn though cystocentesis (drawn from the bladder with a needle), not a free catch speciimen which may be contaminated by fecal waste.
 
Oh well, it is definitely not a UTI. That means it's behavioural...BUT, he only seems to do it when his BG is 200 or higher, which is odd. When he's in the greens and blues, he doesn't do this. Of course, after the 2 days of lovely greens and blues, he's back up to yellows even with the same dose. Sigh. I just don't get it. :roll:
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
Nice numbers today I hope you will take the dose decrease to 3.25

Wendy
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Thanks Wendy...I posted asking in the TR forum, but no one has replied yet....thanks for your reply, I will shoot the 3.25.
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
Looks like a bounce. Hope the BG comes down again soon.
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Wendy, thanks so much for taking the time to keep an eye on Joplin. That means so much to me that people care enough to do that! Joplin DID come down, he's again in the 60's right now. Thanks again.
 
:)

Why did you go back to 3.5? He earned his decrease to 3.25. You want to stay at 3.25 for at least 3 days .. unless he drops under 50 and then you would drop him again immediately. he doesnt look like he needs as much insulin now so you should drop him when he deserves it.

Wendy
 
Protocol fyi

"General" Guidelines:
Hold the initial starting dose for 5 - 7 days (10 - 14 consecutive cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherwise. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 consecutive cycles).
Each subsequent dose is held for a minimum of 3 days (6 consecutive cycles) unless kitty earns a reduction (See: Reducing the dose...).
Adjustments to dose are based on nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.

Increasing the dose:
Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 (blue or green) before increasing the dose by 0.25 unit.
After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300 (yellow) increase the dose by 0.25 unit.
After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 300 (pink red black) increase the dose by 0.5 unit.

Reducing the dose:
If kitty drops below 50 reduce the dose by 0.25 unit. If kitty has a history of not holding reductions well or if reductions are close together... sneak the dose down by shaving the dose rather than reducing by a full quarter unit. Alternatively, at each newly reduced dose... try to make sure kitty maintains numbers in the normal range for seven days before reducing the dose further. If an attempted reduction fails, go right back up to the last good dose. Try to go from 0.25u to 0.1u before stopping insulin completely.
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Wendy&Tiggy said:
:)

Why did you go back to 3.5? He earned his decrease to 3.25. You want to stay at 3.25 for at least 3 days .. unless he drops under 50 and then you would drop him again immediately. he doesnt look like he needs as much insulin now so you should drop him when he deserves it.

Wendy
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That was a typographical error! (Or I hadn't had my coffee yet), because i DID only give him 3.25 (or as close to that as I can tell, considering my syringes dont have half unit markings). I have updated the SS with the correct info.
 
In that case you might want to drop to 3IU tonite. He just earned another decrease. Now its very close to the last decrease so may not hold but its worth a try.

Wendy
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
In that case you might want to drop to 3IU tonite. He just earned another decrease. Now its very close to the last decrease so may not hold but its worth a try.

Wendy
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I think that's what I'm going to do, 3. He's half hour from his scheduled shot and only at 88.
 
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