Beebo’s Borderline BG Bamboozle

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BeeboTheBeanMachine

BeeboTheBeanMachine

Member Since 2019
Hey guys! I’m new here! Please let me know if I’m doing anything wrong in my posts. I’m really excited to finally find a reputable cat forum online, so I may make forum faux pas in my eagerness for feedback.

My rescue cat Sheba (AKA Beebo AKA Little Bee AKA Bean Machine) is ~10 years old and has been what my vet considers “borderline” diabetic for about a year. A few years ago, she was diagnosed with asthma and put on steroids pills. They helped with the asthma but eventually resulted in concerning urine glucose levels discovered after a recurring UTI.

The vet pulled the pills (we started an inhaler which works way better and often results in asthma remission) and put her on Royal Canin Glycobalance dry to see if it would bring her numbers back down. It did... kinda... about a year ago she tested at BG 283 and stayed around that range for a few vet visits in a row. The vet felt that her BG was in just barely low enough that insulin wasn’t necessary and would just present a risk of hypoglycemia or be a waste of money. We were told to look out for increased thirst or lethargy, but she’s always been a thirsty sleepy kitty so it was a difficult thing to look for.

However, in the last six months or so she’s been experiencing intermittent diarrhea and very recently has started vomiting overnight. She’d been about 16lbs since 2014, but in the past year she’s dropped down to about 13lbs. I’ve tried switching up her food a bit (the Glycobalance always gave her softer stools than other foods) and keep seeing temporary improvement, but these symptoms always return. Last month the vet ran a blood test again and said the BG numbers were at the lower end of the diabetic range (I don’t have the exact numbers on hand at the moment but will later. Maybe right around 300?). Again, he proposed we could try insulin injections or he suggested changes in diet may help regulate her numbers. He wrote me a Lantus script and told me to call him if/when I pick it up so he can help us learn to use the syringes. He’s never been a “pushy” vet, and I appreciate his respect for my bank account, but I worry that his advice sometimes leans more towards frugal logic (we aren’t wealthy by any means, but I am more than willing to spend whatever it takes even if it means I have to live off ramen noodles).

I’ve gone back and forth on this so many times already. Bee means the world to me and my boyfriend and we are committed to giving her the best and longest life possible. I guess my biggest fear is the risk of hypoglycemia or the possibility of missing doses (we have pretty hectic schedules) causing bigger issues.

Is there any good reason NOT to start the insulin right now? Since my vet is not insistent on it, I’m scared of overmedicating her. Are we idiots for waiting this long to go for it? Now I keep wondering if we had started her on it a year ago, would we have better chances of remission? I felt so triumphant for finally getting her asthma under control, we just never saw this coming :( Ugh. Help!!
 
there'll be more on soon I'm sure, but just so you know someone is listening, I'll take a swing at some of these -- still a relative newbie but you learn fast with this crew

food first -- most diabetic cats do best with wet (canned) food with a low percentage of carbohydrates -- there are two dry kibbles with very low carbs, but the canned foods seem to do the very best at helping get the sugarcats balanced .. if you haven't started insulin yet, it's wisest to transition to wet food first as the blood glucose usually drops when the cats start eating that regularly, sometimes drastically

there is a link to Dr Pierson's cat food information chart at the top of this forum, it's a godsend to find how the various foods stack up

Lantus is a good insulin for sugarcats, of course I'm biased because that's what I transitioned my Catcat to -- to ease the financial crunch, we've found that a pharmacy in Canada can ship Lantus to the US at Canadian prices plus shipping costs, so it's about half the price from your local drugstore

another thing which will help enormously in dealing with Sheba's diabetes, is to buy a glucometer so you do the testing yourself at home, where Sheba is not stressed by being at the vet, and so you can test repeatedly to establish the cycle of blood glucose -- this lets you PLAN

the vet may suggest you buy an AlphaTrak, set up specifically for pets -- but the strips that meter takes, are expensive and you may need to use a bunch of them; the procedures we've worked out were done using standard meters marketed for human use; the strips for those are considerably less expensive and available at pharmacies whenever you need them -- many here use the ReliOn Prime or Premium from Walmart

while you're getting that, also buy 28 gauge lancets and a box of ketone testing strips (Ketostix or generic equivalent)

there are members here with asthmatic cats, they'll be able to give you pointers also

there are a lot of yellow sticky notes, both on this main forum and on the forums for the different types of insulin, read as many as you can, it's a steep learning curve and you probably will feel overwhelmed, but .. as you say, you've found a reputable cats-with-diabetes site

welcome -- as they say -- to the site you never wanted to join :bighug::bighug:
 
Hi and welcome to FDMB. Candy has provided some very good information. Many of us start out at least with Fancy Feast Classics (pates) and Friskies pates, all below 10% carbs. Dr. Lisa Pierson of www.catinfo.org compiled the food chart a couple of years ago and she recommends " start with protein minimum of 40, fat maximum of 50, carb max of 10, and for cats with kidney issues....phos less than 300."
Not sure what to feed? Food Chart

You should home test Sheba's blood sugar, first to always be sure it's safe to inject, then to see what the trends and patterns are during the cycle between insulin injections. Walmart has the ReliOn Prime meter for about $10, 50 strips are another $10 and the 26 or 28 gauge lancets are $2 or $3. Many members use this human meter and are happy with it.

Let's start with a little housekeeping, even though you are not using insulin yet. Create a signature so that we can see kitty's information whenever you post:
Setting up your signature (light grey text under a post). Here's how:
click on your name in the upper right corner of this page
click on "signature" in the menu that drops down
type the following in the box that opens: kitty's name/age/date of diabetes diagnosis/insulin you're using and dosage amount /glucose meter you're using/what (s)he eats/any other meds or health issues (s)he has. You can add your name, and a geographic location (sometimes the country/time zone matters) Be sure to SAVE when you are finished. You can easily edit and update the signature when you start testing and using insulin or change her diet.

You can test her BG (blood glucose) and see exactly what her blood sugar is and if it is registering consistently above the normal non-diabetic cat's BG (50-120) she will need to be on insulin. Lantus is an excellent insulin for cats, horribly expensive in the US and we suggest you explore if vet will be amenable to faxing Rx, or if you need to get a written Rx and use it to purchase Lantus from Marks Marine Pharmacy in Canada. https://rxcanada4less.com/

Getting Bee on a good low carb diet, testing her blood sugar and starting insulin therapy is going to help her feel so much better.

There are videos of how to test and inject insulin on the internet. Here is a link to the information on testing we have here on testing:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
How to test your cat's bg at home: Video I made showing how to test your cat's blood sugar by JanetNJ

There's a wealth of information, support, knowledge and experience here for you to draw upon, by members in every stage of the sugar dance. Many members have been treating their sugar cats 24/7, 365 for years. We will help.
 
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My cat and others have benefited greatly just by switching food. I think that should be your first order of business, consulting the sticky with cat food spreadsheet at the top of the main health forum. Second, testing. You'll be able to see how high Beebo's blood glucose rises. Many people go to Walmart and for $25 you get a $9 meter, $9 50 testing strips, $3 200 lancets and a box of cinnamon graham crackers.

That will get you and Beebo onto the path to regulation or remission. He's an adorable kitty.

The people here are amazing! They are dedicated and tireless. They have many years of managing sugar cats, often in combination with other health issues.
 
Thank you all for your kind and supportive words! I tried transitioning back to Friskies Pate (her favorite is Poultry Platter, but the store was out so we tried chicken & liver) last week, but woke up to find it aaaaalllll barfed up in three different spots around the house. However, she had also been barfing up Glycobalance for about 24 hours prior to that, so it could be unrelated. The past few days I’ve been mixing her Glycobalance with Blue Buffalo Wilderness (which she did well on before the vet switched her the Glycobalance which gives her constant diarrhea). I’ll try again with the Friskies tonight. I think part of the problem is she eats it SO fast. She slows down with the dry food cause she’s missing half her teeth.

We have an appointment for the vet to come by the house on Wednesday to demonstrate the injection process. I’m going to bite the bullet and fill this script at CVS so we can get started quicker, but I’ll probably try the Canadian pharmacy for future refills. My vet will be ok with it. He actually suggested foreign pharmacies for her inhaler which has saved us hundreds and hundreds of dollars. He’s not like a regular vet, he’s a cool vet ;) I will also pick up a monitor ASAP. It sounds worth it even just for the sole purpose of preventing hypo anxiety. Gonna build a hypo kit too.
 
So glad you have a cool vet that is helpful to you regarding expenses. Picking up the meter and strips is not only going to help prevent a hypo, it's going to tell you just how the insulin, as well as any diet changes, is/are affecting kitty.
Set up the spreadsheet so that you can record the insulin and testing data, it's invaluable to see exactly what is happening, and really helps alleviate uncertainty and worry. Heck, there are enough worries in our lives all the time, why add to them?

With the spreadsheet you will see how the trends and patterns emerge, and members can review her progress before offering suggestions or advice:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

Re: scarf & barf, many of us have dealt with this issue, and more than once. If you are at home during the day, try small more frequent meals, and perhaps spread the food on a large flat plate or dollop in different areas so that she has to work a little harder and take a little longer to eat the food. It's possible that Sheba has some food allergies and only by trial and error, and slowly introducing a new food might shed some light in that area. You also could try freezing some wet food in ice cube trays, and putting a cube down to thaw, perhaps Sheba will nibble as it thaws and not gobble so fast. If you are working and away during the day, a timed feeder might work for you to provide more frequent small meals. CatMate and PetSafe are two brands that I am familiar with , both have 2 and 5 portion models.

There are videos of how to give the insulin injections and hometesting on the internet. We all have found what worked for us via trial & error, with helpful suggestions from fellow members. We have a picture of different injection sites here on the board also.

Please keep in touch here and let us know how it's going. This board is not only to gather information and "how to", it's also a great place for emotional support and encouragement.
 
Hi all!

Lantus injections have been going well, we’re sticking to every 12 hours perfectly so far. She’s completely unbothered by the injections.

I purchased a glucose meter, but I’m still having a hard time being able to test regularly. I’m pretty terrible with the lancet and although Bee is a really chill cat, she’s not always cooperative with me holding her ears still. A couple times she yanked away which made the lancet slip and cause a huge deep scratch :( she’s also usually so antsy for meals that she doesn’t want to sit still for me. Not giving up though, and the few random pre-shot tests showed decent numbers I think (90-95ish. Is that good??). Trying to practice more so I can do a full curve as soon as possible.

My biggest concern is that she still seems to be experiencing stomach issues fairly frequently. Since starting Lantus, we’ve had 3 or 4 incidences of her barfing up her entire meal within an hour of eating (even when we paced her with smaller portions). She is still having very soft poop almost every day. She usually goes to the litter box within a few minutes after eating. This morning, I witnessed her using the litter box and it shot out of her SO fast. I felt so bad for her. She’s also straining a lot during bowel movements and it looks like she’s extremely uncomfortable in the process :( she’s gone outside of the litter box a few times too, but not as frequently as before starting the insulin.

Any ideas for her tummy? I suspect if I contact the vet, he’ll prescribe the same compounded medicine for nausea/diarrhea that he gave her before insulin. It seemed to help when I could get her to eat it (she hated the taste), but as soon as the meds finished, symptoms started back up again. Do you think this is just an indication that her numbers will reflect a necessary dose increase? Or do you think it could be something unrelated? What specifics should I ask the vet to check for?

Thanks again for all your help. I don’t know where I’d be without these boards!!
 
What size of dose of Lantus are you giving? If you are getting BG if 90’s before the shot, we suggest not shooting at all. Those are normal numbers. Her dose likely needs to be reduced.

For the tummy, keep track of what proteins you are feeding. Try to stick with one type of meat for a while, so you figure out what she might be allergic to.
 
She’s on 1 unit. Like I said, I’ve only successfully tested a few times, so those numbers aren’t very reliable, but I’ll keep trying. I’ll remember that advice for future tests.

We’ve tried chicken, turkey, and fish, different brands of wet food and different brands of dry food (in the past. We’re sticking to wet food now). My old dog had food allergies, so that was the first thing I thought to try, but I’m not seeing any consistent improvement. Sometimes the symptoms go away briefly but they always come back. I’m worried it might be something much more serious. Before the vet diagnosed diabetes he did a full blood panel and didn’t find anything else concerning. Should I request different tests? X Rays? Should I consider that diabetic cats just barf or have diarrhea and I shouldn’t be so paranoid?
 
Ugh, I just tested before feeding (well, as she was taking her first bite since that’s the only time she’ll stop crying for food and squirming) and her number was only 79. But she acts like she hasn't eaten in days (her dad fed her a tiny portion when he got up for work at 4am so she would stop screaming for food). Her Lantus time is 8:30am/pm, so does that mean I should skip? Wait? I must leave the house by 9 to go to work. I’ll plan on testing again around 8:30 and 8:45 if she’ll let me. I had a feeling insulin wasn’t going to be the right solution and would just result in wasting tons of time and tons of money while she still stayed sick. I really hope I’m not correct. (PS, she’s already in the litter box now.... probably 2 minutes after eating))
 
I’m not one of the experts around here - but I think everyone will say definitely don’t shoot a 79, especially if you’re leaving for work. Hopefully someone else will post ideas about what’s going on with her hunger and tummy issues.
 
Hello
If you haven't given the shot yet, I would skip it because you don't have much data on how low she's dropping from the dose. It is good to get mid cycle blood glucose test, 3-7 hrs after giving insulin.

If you already gave shot, be sure to check her blood glucose after shot, 1 or 2 hrs after to see if bg is dropping, and throughout the cycle. Do you have high carb food or Karo syrup to give if her bg drops?

How long ago did you stop steroids? That could make her bg go down quite a bit.

A spreadsheet would help a lot so people could have info to advise. Someone here can help set up spreadsheet for you.
 
BeeboTheBeanMachine said:
Her Lantus time is 8:30am/pm, so does that mean I should skip? Wait? I must leave the house by 9 to go to work. I’ll plan on testing again around 8:30 and 8:45 if she’ll let me. I had a feeling insulin wasn’t going to be the right solution and would just result in wasting tons of time and tons of money while she still stayed sick. I really hope I’m not correct. (PS, she’s already in the litter box now.... probably 2 minutes after eating))
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I missed this in your long post, Don't give insulin if you're not home to check on her.
 
Good - there’s a saying around here- “Better too high for a day, than too low for a second.” Have a good day at work, and thanks for the update!
 
BeeboTheBeanMachine said:
I didn’t shoot. Will test again when I get home tonight at 7. Hopefully I can get better data over the weekend.

She’s been off steroids for about a year and a half.
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So glad to hear that!! Thanks for checking in, we do worry about kitties. And kitty is safe which is most important.
 
Izzy, so sorry to hear that Sheba isn't totally in the "pink" health-wise and that we can figure out what to do to help her.

Please set up the spreadsheet so that we can see the readings you are getting. If you are unable to set it up yourself, you can get an experienced member to do that for you. Just let us know you need help. Some of us using a tablet or a cell phone as opposed to a computer have found that setting up the SS was either impossible or really difficult.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

Testing (at least it was for me) is a process of practice and patience. Here are some words on getting kitty used to it from Chris & China:

It can be really helpful to establish a routine with testing. Pick one spot that you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter because it's got good light and it's at a good height....it also already blocked 2 escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) It can be anywhere though...a rug on the floor, a table, a particular spot on the couch...wherever is good for you.

Take him there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a yummy (low carb) treat. Most cats aren't objecting so much with the poking..it's the fooling with their ears they don't like, but once they're desensitized to it and learn to associate a certain place with the treats, they usually start to come when they're called! Or even when they hear us opening the test kit!

You also have to remember...you're not poking him to hurt him...you're testing him to keep him safe and understand what's going on inside his body. There's just nothing better than truly understanding what's going on inside your kitty's body and with this disease, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have against it. The edges of the ears have very few pain receptors, so it really doesn't hurt them. Also, if you're nervous and tense, it's going to make your kitty nervous and tense too. As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

It's also important to make sure his ear is warm. A small sock filled with a little rice and microwaved or a small pill bottle filled with warm water (check temp against your wrist like you would a baby bottle) works well

For new kitties, using a heavier gauge lancet is also really helpful. A 25-28 gauge lancet pokes a bigger "hole" than a 31-33 gauge lancet does, so look for "Alternate Site testing" lancets that are usually a lower number

Finding the right "treat" will be a great help too! Freeze dried chicken, bonito flakes, little pieces of baked chicken...whatever low carb treat you can find that he really enjoys will help him to associate the testing with the treat! China's Achilles heel was baked chicken, so I'd bake a piece, chop it into bite sized pieces, put some in the refrigerator and freeze the rest to use as needed. It didn't take long for her to come any time I picked up the meter!
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You can also get that blood sample on a clean fingernail and then use the meter strip on that, saving trying to hold that ear/cat still to move the meter strip toward the blood drop. What meter are you using? Could you add that to your signature so we know?

I have also read that if your cat is very hungry and not being patient with that pre-shot test, to let her eat a little to quell that appetite a bit. Some food immediately before testing is not going to affect the blood sugar level that quickly.

We also should look at what kind of food Sheba is eating that might be affecting her GI system. What brands/varieties are you giving her? Some cats are affected by different ingredients as well as the carb values. There are lots of diet alternatives out there.

Izzy, don't be a stranger, please. Let us know what's happening with Sheba so we can help you get a handle on this and get her feeling better, and lessening your worry and stress levels in the process.
 
BeeboTheBeanMachine said:
We’ve tried chicken, turkey, and fish, different brands of wet food and different brands of dry food (in the past. We’re sticking to wet food now). My old dog had food allergies, so that was the first thing I thought to try, but I’m not seeing any consistent improvement. Sometimes the symptoms go away briefly but they always come back.
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Those all tend to be common allergies/intolerances. It might be worth trying a protein like rabbit, venison, or lamb. Just be sure to verify by reading the ingredients on the can that it actually only contains the protein it’s advertised to contain - it’s amazingly frustrating how many foods branded as being made from a novel protein still include chicken when you check! My IBD girl used to have flare ups of diarrhea and vomiting but hasn’t had either since switching her diet
 
Food changes can by themselves lead to GI issues. Changes should be made slowly. You said the glucobalance gave her soft stools. If is primarily chicken, so I would try avoiding it for now. Another component in there is wheat gluten, another possible allergy trigger. Beef and fish are also common cat allergens.

I am glad you skipped this morning. If her numbers are high by tonight, don’t give her 1 unit again, it’s too much insulin. Do you have syringes with half unit markings?
 
Hi again!

Thank you all so much for the fast responses and advice. I will definitely set up my spreadsheet ASAP. I hadn’t done it yet since I only had a few random successful tests and I wasn’t total sure I was doing it correctly.

I just got home and tested her again (7:24pm). The reading was 99 this time. My boyfriend gave her a tiny portion of food when he stopped by at 3ish, but other than that this was before feeding. I fed her another small portion and tested during the first couple bites. She usually gets her insulin at 8:30pm, so I’ll wait about an hour and test again. Should I feed her more before the 2nd test?

Unfortunately we have to go back out again tonight for an event around 9ish, so I’m guessing I should definitely skip again if she’s still under 150? We do have half-dose syringes, so should I give her a half if she’s between 150-200?

I’m really surprised at how much easier testing has become with practice! I’m glad I trusted you guys to keep at it. If her numbers are back up on Saturday morning, I plan on attempting a full curve.
 
Oh, and the meter I’m using is the cheap ReliOn Prime. The food she’s on now is Friskies canned pate and some chicken and turkey varieties that are lowest in carbs and highest in protein. I’ve already decided not to try the Gycobalance again and probably won’t do any dry food at all. I picked the Friskies because she’s done well on it before and it was recommended to me on some message boards a few years ago as being a surprisingly good choice (protein-wise) for a cheap brand. We always transition slowly when switching foods, and we’ve seen little to no improvement in the different ones (except Glycobalance which has consistently bad results much to my vet’s surprise). I also plan on looking up some higher-end brands this weekend and using that chart that’s posted here to compare nutrition facts to see what else we can try.
 
Izzy, I can't emphasize how important consistent testing is, and now you are seeing that too. Gosh, just think of someone not testing and shooting a low BG without knowing. It does get easier, it just takes a lot of patience and practice. Idjit still isn't a big fan of testing, but we don't do it every day, so it's not "routine".

Regarding the curve, yes, you can try that. But sometimes the cat isn't co-operative with that every 2 hour testing. If you can get those two before shot tests and then two or three tests during the daytime cycle between shots, but at different times each day, plus the before bed test and whatever else you can manage on the night cycle, that is also going to give you a good picture too. The curve is only reflecting what happens on one day.

If you do the curve or get a wider picture of the BG over days, be sure to remark what you fed, how much, what time in the comments section on the far right of the spreadsheet. It helps to know what readings might be food influenced.

Please add the ReliOn Prime meter and the Friskies pates to your signature so members know what you are using/feeding.
 
BeeboTheBeanMachine said:
Hi again!

Thank you all so much for the fast responses and advice. I will definitely set up my spreadsheet ASAP. I hadn’t done it yet since I only had a few random successful tests and I wasn’t total sure I was doing it correctly.

I just got home and tested her again (7:24pm). The reading was 99 this time. My boyfriend gave her a tiny portion of food when he stopped by at 3ish, but other than that this was before feeding. I fed her another small portion and tested during the first couple bites. She usually gets her insulin at 8:30pm, so I’ll wait about an hour and test again. Should I feed her more before the 2nd test?

Unfortunately we have to go back out again tonight for an event around 9ish, so I’m guessing I should definitely skip again if she’s still under 150? We do have half-dose syringes, so should I give her a half if she’s between 150-200?

I’m really surprised at how much easier testing has become with practice! I’m glad I trusted you guys to keep at it. If her numbers are back up on Saturday morning, I plan on attempting a full curve.
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Wow, I'm wondering if she stayed that low all day (all in normal range!), if maybe she is regulating on diet alone? It's hard to say what your "no-shoot" limit should be since you don't have too much data yet, but I would always err on the side of caution, especially if you won't be home. Hopefully someone else will chime in here.
 
Keskat&Rocket said:
Wow, I'm wondering if she stayed that low all day (all in normal range!), if maybe she is regulating on diet alone? It's hard to say what your "no-shoot" limit should be since you don't have too much data yet, but I would always err on the side of caution, especially if you won't be home. Hopefully someone else will chime in here.
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This is why I was so on the fence to even invest in starting the insulin. We only started on September 4th, so it seems wild that we would have regulation already. But like I said in my OP, her numbers had only barely creeped up into the diabetic range before. UNLESS... my vet did mention that it’s common for feline glucose numbers to spike under stress, so sometimes a high number at the vet might not be a good indicator. However, that last blood draw was done in our home and she didn’t seem to be stressed out when it happened. He had hoped that diabetes might be the cause of her soft stools and vomiting, but maybe it was more due to allergy. What I’m really worried about is that it’s some bigger, undetected issue, but if the rest of her blood work is coming back normal I’m not sure what other tests to ask for.
 
BeeboTheBeanMachine said:
This is why I was so on the fence to even invest in starting the insulin. We only started on September 4th, so it seems wild that we would have regulation already. But like I said in my OP, her numbers had only barely creeped up into the diabetic range before. UNLESS... my vet did mention that it’s common for feline glucose numbers to spike under stress, so sometimes a high number at the vet might not be a good indicator. However, that last blood draw was done in our home and she didn’t seem to be stressed out when it happened. He had hoped that diabetes might be the cause of her soft stools and vomiting, but maybe it was more due to allergy. What I’m really worried about is that it’s some bigger, undetected issue, but if the rest of her blood work is coming back normal I’m not sure what other tests to ask for.
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I wish I could help with the tummy issues, but I have no idea. I still feel like a newbie here, but there are some amazing folks here and I'm sure someone can help out. Beebo is beautiful, by the way!!!
 
Just tested. Last food was around midnight, then her dad gave her a tiny portion at 5am so she’d stop crying (she’s so loud, guys). Test read 117. So to recap, this is 36 hours since her last shot.

Skipping again and testing again later unless y’all advise otherwise. I’ll be home early today so I’ll try to do it before she eats lunch. Also about to make my spreadsheet.
 
48 hours since the last shot, just tested at only 88 (she hasn’t eaten since this morning though). What in the world is going on? I’m going to email the vet tonight.
 
Those are amazing numbers! I know she has tummy issues but I've been wondering, especially considering the weight loss, if she's eating enough. It sounds like she often goes many many hours without meals, and you've mentioned feeding her "tiny"amounts a couple of times. I realize she may not actually be diabetic, but I know most of our diabetic kitties on this forum are given several small meals a day, instead of two large ones. Vets will often tell you to only feed at shot times, but that's not really the natural way that cats eat. My cat, though not a normal case, (he has acromegaly underlying his diabetes) would mutiny if I only fed him twice a day! :p

Edit: oops, I just read one of your earlier posts where you did mention pacing her with smaller meals. I'm sorry you're having such a hard time with her diet!
 
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Just curiosity.....did your vet run a fructosamine test before deciding insulin was needed? One off BG tests in the vets office are not sufficient to reach a diagnosis of diabetes. While weight loss is one symptom of diabetes it can also be a symptom of many other conditions. Has Sheba been checked for hyperthyroid? If these tests have not been done, they might help figure out what is going on.
 
It is possible you have seen some healing of your kitty’s pancreatic cells. I would keep monitoring her blood sugars for a couple weeks yet, as you have been.

If hyperthyroid is not an issue with Sheba, an ultrasound might give a clue what is happening inside. You might also want to get a GI blood panel done, so see if her B12 or folate absorption are off.
 
Welcome to the best forum on the internet Izzy - there's lots of help here - and it sounds as if you've already gotten a great deal of wonderful advice!

It also sounds like you maybe giving Bee too much insulin - so first things first....get the SS set up; don't shoot any more low numbers - or perhaps any for that matter - until you have a better picture (with the SS) of several days of data - it could be that she's going higher and lower all in the period of time that we're unaware of what's really happening. Testing and time of testing is important - post food or on an empty tummy...all those factors will help us see when her BG's are higher/lower or in-between...

Sounds like she also definitely has some tummy problems - diarrhea and vomiting are just not normal - food allergies or other issues - need to be worked out. It's possible also that the steroids have done something to her digestive system - even though it's been a year and a half off of them - something else could be going on. She needs more evaluation for those symptoms.

I read your post and I'm so glad you've joined us here - we have all kinds of kitties with all kinds of issues (IBD is one - Irritable bowel disease)...so that sort of thing needs to be sorted out in order to have a happier tummy.

Great that your vet is cool...but so many vets, even in their best attempts don't have a ton of knowledge about feline diabetes and are often at a loss what to do - other than the basic - go home and give your cat insulin twice a day and some of 'this' food (often it's DM or RC Glycobalance)...unfortunately neither of those foods is very good for diabetic kitties - and as mentioned above contain other GI irritants - wheat, corn or meats that your cat may be sensitive to.

We're glad you've joined us and look forward to your new post - starting today - please set up your title like this (someone may have already mentioned this above?)

9/21 BeBoo AMPS ### (yes you'll want to get a test first thing this morning, whether you give insulin or not)..it's pretty much how we do it here - that way there's a fresh post each day - lots of posters and we get confused about when something happened, etc. Also, copy and paste the url from this thread into the top line of your post - look at some other posts and you'll see how it's done)....Get your signature set up with your information - you can modify that as you get settled into the routine...

Again, warm welcoming hugs to you and BeeBo (love the name btw)! :bighug::bighug: She's adorable! You've already learned so much...congratulations on that!! See you on the forum!:D
 
Sue and Luci said:
Welcome to the best forum on the internet Izzy - there's lots of help here - and it sounds as if you've already gotten a great deal of wonderful advice!

It also sounds like you maybe giving Bee too much insulin - so first things first....get the SS set up; don't shoot any more low numbers - or perhaps any for that matter - until you have a better picture (with the SS) of several days of data - it could be that she's going higher and lower all in the period of time that we're unaware of what's really happening. Testing and time of testing is important - post food or on an empty tummy...all those factors will help us see when her BG's are higher/lower or in-between...

Sounds like she also definitely has some tummy problems - diarrhea and vomiting are just not normal - food allergies or other issues - need to be worked out. It's possible also that the steroids have done something to her digestive system - even though it's been a year and a half off of them - something else could be going on. She needs more evaluation for those symptoms.

I read your post and I'm so glad you've joined us here - we have all kinds of kitties with all kinds of issues (IBD is one - Irritable bowel disease)...so that sort of thing needs to be sorted out in order to have a happier tummy.

Great that your vet is cool...but so many vets, even in their best attempts don't have a ton of knowledge about feline diabetes and are often at a loss what to do - other than the basic - go home and give your cat insulin twice a day and some of 'this' food (often it's DM or RC Glycobalance)...unfortunately neither of those foods is very good for diabetic kitties - and as mentioned above contain other GI irritants - wheat, corn or meats that your cat may be sensitive to.

We're glad you've joined us and look forward to your new post - starting today - please set up your title like this (someone may have already mentioned this above?)

9/21 BeBoo AMPS ### (yes you'll want to get a test first thing this morning, whether you give insulin or not)..it's pretty much how we do it here - that way there's a fresh post each day - lots of posters and we get confused about when something happened, etc. Also, copy and paste the url from this thread into the top line of your post - look at some other posts and you'll see how it's done)....Get your signature set up with your information - you can modify that as you get settled into the routine...

Again, warm welcoming hugs to you and BeeBo (love the name btw)! :bighug::bighug: She's adorable! You've already learned so much...congratulations on that!! See you on the forum!:D
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Thanks! I’ll make a new thread after I test. Should I do it here or in the Lantus board?
 
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I'd suggest posting on the Lantus board. Many of the more experienced Lantus folks don't wander over to Health unless someone tags us and asks that we stop by (well, that's the case for me). However, we are very numbers driven so you will need to have your spreadsheet set up!
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Just curiosity.....did your vet run a fructosamine test before deciding insulin was needed? One off BG tests in the vets office are not sufficient to reach a diagnosis of diabetes. While weight loss is one symptom of diabetes it can also be a symptom of many other conditions. Has Sheba been checked for hyperthyroid? If these tests have not been done, they might help figure out what is going on.
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I'm not sure. He started detecting glucose in her urine in December 2017 which is when he pulled her off the steroid pills and continued to monitor signs after that. Glucose still in urine April 2018. IDEXX blood test (idk how to tell what kind but happy to attach the paperwork) had GLU = 283 mg/dL H (range = 72-175) in April 2018, then 315 in June 2019. These numbers combined with excessive thirst/urination, increased hunger, vomiting, diarrhea, and no other conclusive symptoms of an alternate diagnosis is what lead the vet to recommend Lantus. I added this lab data to my SS, but some if it is confusing and not all of the acronyms match up. Maybe I should just attach the PDF of her records.
 
Good morning Izzy. I hope it's a beautiful day in Richmond. Thank you so much for the SS and recording the testing data. Would it be possible for you to get a mid-cycle test in today? That would show how low the BG is going, or if it's staying flat-ish.

Wishing you and Beebo (sweet Sheba) a good day.
 
Idjit's mom said:
Good morning Izzy. I hope it's a beautiful day in Richmond. Thank you so much for the SS and recording the testing data. Would it be possible for you to get a mid-cycle test in today? That would show how low the BG is going, or if it's staying flat-ish.

Wishing you and Beebo (sweet Sheba) a good day.
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Yes, I can probably do that. When would you recommend I do it? Even though she hasn't had an injection since 9/18 PM, she was doing them at 8:30AM/PM, so should I aim for 2:30PM today?
 
The Fructosamine test would be under Biochemistry. If you can attach the PDF file we can help you interpret the acronyms with those on the SS.
 
I think that 2:30 PM would be good, or thereabouts. You never know what the day will bring, and how busy you might get.

I am no expert Izzy, I am just curious as to what the curve, if there is a curve, looks like. That might also help the more experienced members advise you. All data is good data. Mid-cycle tests at different times of the cycle and if you can get some PM mid-cycle tests in too, at least a before bed test can be very valuable.

Just saw your new thread on Lantus. I surely hope that others can offer more knowledge and expertise to Beebo's situation.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
The Fructosamine test would be under Biochemistry. If you can attach the PDF file we can help you interpret the acronyms with those on the SS.
Click to expand...

Here are her records from the vet’s previous office: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9sEbAujOQDlUnpUeXpWN0lDZmdPRVlMYkVqRE5HTmw3aXVv/view?usp=drivesdk

Page 4 has the blood test she did last year that prompted them to stop the steroids and switch to Glycobalance to see if it would bring her numbers down. Also two urinalysis results with glucose in the urine. I emailed him today and asked him to send me the results from her blood test and fecal sample we did in June. I didn’t see the full results, but he did say the Glucose from that (at home, mid-morning) blood draw was at 315 (idk what that scar is though. I’m guessing it doesn’t mean the same thing as a 315 from my ReliOn Prime would? Or does it?)
 
I don't see any fructosamine test on those labs at all. Glucose was up but not horribly so and glucose can spill into urine for reasons other than diabetes. From the readings you've been getting, it looks a bit questionable as to whether Sheba needs insulin or not. While this AM's reading was a bit high I'd be inclined to continue testing for a couple of days more without insulin to ensure the depot from previous shots is totally out of her system to get a clear picture of exactly what BG is without treatment. If BG continues to be elevated, I'd re-evaluate the dose before resuming insulin.
 
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