Bear's numbers-Please help

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BettyL

Member Since 2013
This is my attempt at getting everyone the info you need:Just a note-I am gone all day thru the week so unable to test if I would shoot low.
2/7/13 Bear not on any insulin
AM 199
PM 243

2/8
AM 253
PM 235

2/9 Took Bear to new vet
AM 261
Per vet-no testing and drop off 2/11 for bloodwork up

2/10
no testing

2/11
no testing
10:10 AM 365 she compared my meter to hers so had number stored in my meter
Vet told me to start Lantus that night and begin at (2u)
I didn't-based upon what I learned here

2/12
AM Did not test
PM Attempted mini curve
PMPS 234 (.75u) fed lc meal
+4 82-fed lc snack
+5 70-fed hc snack
+6 77-fed hc snack

2/13
(+12) AMPS 185 (.0u) fed lc meal
(+12) PMPS 225 (.5u) fed lc meal
+3 1/2 118 fed lc snack
+5 118 fed hc snack
+5 1/2 fed hc snack (my tester went to bed)

2/14
(+12) AMPS 196 (.0u) fed lc meal
(+12) PMPS 245 (.25u) fed lc meal
+4 170 fed lc snack

2/15
(+12) AMPS 185 (.0u) fed lc meal
(+12.75) PMPS 268 (.25u) fed lc meal-got home late from work
+4 122 fed lc snack
+6 160

2/16
(+11.5) AMPS 159 (.0u) fed lc meal- tried to get back on schedule since late night before
Where I'm at now and not sure what to do-wanted to run full curve tomorrow but always too low in am to shoot.
(+11.5) PMPS 286 (.25u) fed lc meal-pm # getting continually higher with no am shot
 
Betty

I hope someone comes along soon to give you some dosing advice. Your cats numbers are all over the place. I can not give dosing advice. I would guess you have Lantus on hand if needed? I am in Ohio as well. Your cat has strange numbers like my cat Lilly did, never real high.

Terri
 
From what I can see, it looks like you are not shooting any insulin if his pre shot test is below 200.
Lantus works best with cats if given every 12 hours. Hopefully, we can get you on a dose that you can shoot every 12 hours. I see you are trying to get to that point.

I can understand you're not wanting to shoot when below 200 (in the beginning) when you are not going to be home, but maybe, if he is between 150 and 200 on a day when you will be home to monitor him and have plenty of test strips, high carb food and/or syrup if needed, you can try to give him his shot and post and test often and we can help you to see how he does.

In the mean time, can you set up a spreadsheet and add it to your signature, so that we can better help you?
Someone will provide you with the link to set one up.
 
For most of us who use Lantus, we advise new users that shooting is fine if numbers are above 150. I can appreciate you may be uneasy shooting in that range if you're not home. The only way to get comfortable with giving insulin is to get more test so you know what's happening when you do shoot. When you are shooting lower numbers, it's a mistake to think that because BG levels may drop 100 points when you're shooting in the mid-200 that they will drop the same amount if you're shooting in the mid-100s. It can happen but that's why you need data in order to understand Bear's patterns. I think you would have been fine shooting this morning if you were going to be home and could monitor.

Chances are that you're really not seeing how Lantus works given that you're skipping shots. You can always lower the dose in order to be better able to shoot twice a day. You could try shooting 0.1u. It looks like this:
01unit-1.jpg

It's often easier on the nerves to start lower and work the dose up than to always be afraid that you're giving too much insulin.

I would also encourage you to get a spreadsheet set up. (Sorry -- I know we're hammering you about this.) As you are collecting data, it's going to be overwhelming for you and for us if you post a string of numbers. The spreadsheets are very straightforward once you understand what the columns mean and it looks like you've mastered how we "tell time" already. Please take Marje up on her offer to help you with a spreadsheet. Without being able to have a comprehensive picture of your data, it makes helping Bear risky, as Jill noted in your other thread.
 
betty, thanks so much for getting bear's data together! marje kindly offered to set up a spreadsheet for you in your last thread: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=88899&p=954121#p954121. please take her up on her offer. using a spreadsheet will help you spot patterns and trends.

like dyana and sienne have mentioned, it looks like it's time for you to begin lowering your no shoot number. like the others, i can understand your apprehension. many if not most of our caregivers work outside the home so you're not alone in that respect. would you feel more comfortable consistently shooting 0.1 unit every 12 hours with preshot numbers over 130 - 150? sienne provided the picture of what 0.1u looks like.

once you've collected data on the 0.1u dose we can see if the dose needs tweaking.

what do you think?
 
Betty

I responded to your PM and just need a couple things from you to set up the SS. Thanks for the data! I can enter it into the SS to get you started but just need to hear from you.

Thank you so much!
 
BJM said:
Hey all - Bear tends to dive quickly and steeply, so she really would like help steering that safely.
Click to expand...
granted there's not a whole lot of data to work with yet, but i'm not seeing that to be a problem on the reduced dose of 0.25 unit.
jmo.


Marje and Gracie said:
Here is Bear's SS with all the numbers and info Betty posted earlier. Once I hear from Betty again, I can put it in her signature block.

Bear's Lantus SS
Click to expand...
thank you, marje! :mrgreen:
 
Hi- Sent a pm to Marje with info she needed. Hopefully spreadsheet will be available soon. Still not toatally sure about what to do tomorrow morning if ps low.
Betty
 
Hi Betty, I like Sienne's and Jill's suggestion to try lowering the dose to 0.1u and collecting some data on that dose. What do you think? That should bring her AM numbers up a little bit so you'll be able to shoot twice a day.

You can see that giving 0.25u just once a day isn't working very well, since she is ending up high by evening, so basically you're giving a lower dose but giving it more often in hopes of leveling her out.

Eventually you'll learn to shoot at lower numbers, but it's a lot easier to ease into things by starting at a lower dose.
 
if you're home to monitor tomorrow, how about shooting 0.1u if the preshot number is 130 or over?
you're welcome to post in the Lantus TR ISG if you need help in the morning before shooting. there's almost always someone there to help.
 
Jill & Alex said:
BJM said:
Hey all - Bear tends to dive quickly and steeply, so she really would like help steering that safely.
Click to expand...
granted there's not a whole lot of data to work with yet, but i'm not seeing that to be a problem on the reduced dose of 0.25 unit.
jmo.
Click to expand...

Let me rephrase:
She wants to be able to sleep at night, not stay up checking every 30 minutes and feeding which she had to do one night. Bear seems pretty sensitive to insulin. Fortunately, she didn't give what the vet recommended.
 
BJM said:
Let me rephrase:
She wants to be able to sleep at night, not stay up checking every 30 minutes and feeding which she had to do one night. Bear seems pretty sensitive to insulin. Fortunately, she didn't give what the vet recommended.
Click to expand...
BJM: we're past the vet recommended dose. if you read back through the thread, you'll see a suggestion has been made to drop bear's dose to 0.1u bid.
this suggestion came about not because the 0.25u dose was necessarily too high, but in consideration of the caregiver's wishes.

not sure what your point is. are you suggesting withholding insulin? shooting insulin once a day... in the morning only? :?
 
Hi everyone-Thanks Marje for all the help with the spreadsheet. I made a judgement call today about Bear's dose.I know it was suggested to give .10 dose, but I was running late on testing time and shot, so didn't have time to get on message board and get an approval on what I felt I should. I promise to follow suggestions in the future. I decided to go ahead an give Bear the .25 dose this morning. Her PS was 198. The main reason I didn't feel comfortable giving the .25 was because of the rule no shot if PS is below 200. Jill and Alex said the .25u was not necessarily too high,but .10 was suggested due to my wishes. I am going to be home all day and will test every 2 hours and keep an eye on her. I really wanted to see what the .25u in the am does to PSPM and I wouldn't be able to do any more testing during the day until next weekend. I also wanted to see what happens to her numbers if she doesn't get a snack midway thru, because she doesn't get a snack when I'm not home. If today's numbers indicate .25 wouldn't be safe or if you all feel .10 is still the safe dose in the am , I will definately do that tomorrow morning before I have to leave for work. I am suppose to be doing a curve today for my vet using her meter, but I couln't get hers to work, plus I wanted to use mine anyway. I updated my spread sheet and will all day as I test. Do you want me post in the Lantus forum from now on? Please feel free to let me know if I made the wrong decision this morning. Aso, my husband didn't feel comfortable trying to measure .10 without doing some practice with water first. Is he basically trying to get 1 drop to come out of the syringe? He said .25u was hard enough, but we will try to practice getting the .10 dose if needed.
Thanks for all the help.
Betty
 
My 2 cents - stick with one meter - if you have your own meter, are comfortable using it - then that is the meter to use for all your home testing. Give the vet back her meter and leave it at that.

For lantus dosing advice - it is best to post in lantus forum - as the dosing experts are there as well as everyone who uses lantus - it is a busier board than health forum and you will get quicker answers on that board.

For general health related questions, you can post here or in your condo on lantus or both.

just remember if you post in two places, you will get multiple answers in two places.
 
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