Bear 1-14/ AMPS 512/ +5 479/ +8.25 491/ PMPS 481/ +3 212/ +5 383/ +8 366/

LOL...Black Bear indeed. Hey how about a different color for the bounce there Bear? Can we try maybe...pink? It would be start you know!

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As someone once told me, black belongs on the outside of the kitty, not the blood sugar.:rolleyes:

Great catch on the greens tonight. Paws crossed Bear finds them again soon.
 
Oh Bear! You're already wearing a black coat.....how about some lighter brighter colours on that SS! Blue and green look much better but even yellow would be appreciated!
 
@Wendy&Neko @MrWorfMen's Mom

The one positive thing I can attribute to Bear's extreme bouncing is that I have a healthy perspective.

I will never stress over a few pink or ever complain about a yellow.

Red and black cycles are my stressors.

These colors raise me to fight or flight, and (fight it is) with a strong determination to find an answer.

If I can predict his major bounces, (which I can), every Green leads to a spike going to High Red or Black, why can't I find a way to at least modify it and keep him safe from extra ketone production and DKA???

Has anyone ever seen a SS of a cat with bounces to this degree, because I haven't found one?

If so, was there a technique used/method or a resolution?

I thought the Lantus affect of more shallow drops would modify Bear's bounces.

Do you think this a failed possibility or could more time possibly give us some headway with Bear's Hypersensitive Self-preservation Response?
 
Do you think this a failed possibility or could more time possibly give us some headway with Bear's Hypersensitive Self-preservation Response?[/QUOTE]
Sue and Luci said:
Luci likes the trampoline too :( Not quite as energetically as Bear does...but I know how you feel. Give it time. Time and patience are the keys to seeing better numbers...hang in there.
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I am seeing better numbers but the consequences of better numbers are bounces into higher numbers in the Red and Black.

I can be patient when I have a healthy dose of hope.

My hope Depot is dwindling and I'm searching for knowledge and a possible infusion of hope.
 
Some kitties are big bouncers, others are not. He reached some nice green last night so now all you can do is wait out the bounce ( can be up to 6 cycles or 3 days)

One strategy for DKA kitties throwing ketones is to give higher carb food so that you can get as much insulin into them to keep ketones at bay. It looks like you are checking periodically which is a good thing and that Bear is negative for ketone, YAH!

With him hitting some greens like last night, it's a matter of him clearing them.
 
There's no doubt that Bear has a very sensitive "defense system". You are definitely getting better results now than with the ProZinc and in the big scheme of things, you haven't been at this with Lantus that long. I understand how frustrating bounces are but ECID and the time it takes them to start levelling out is different too. Bear usually come out a bounce relatively quickly so until he gets more used to those blue and green BGs, he's probably going to head to the sky periodically. You've got a good handle on him so my feeling is that if you follow TR closely, he will eventually become accustomed to those lower BGs and the blacks and reds on his spreadsheet will lessen.

I like Bobbie's idea of slightly higher carbs and more insulin to push him into good numbers more frequently but that of course has to be tempered around t your ability to monitor. There has, for good reason, been a period where doses were held for longer than normally suggested and there may still be an element of glucose toxicity involved.

I wish there was a magical solution but there isn't....all you can do is follow Bear's lead and act accordingly. He's running this show and so far you are doing a great job of dealing with his unique behaviour.
 
This strategy/technique seems counterproductive.
You raise their blood glucose with food and give them larger doses of Insulin to bring their BG down.
In this scenario once the Insulin has brought their BG down to blue or green levels wouldn't the self-preservation response cause a bounce also?
 
Bear & Lora said:
My hope Depot is dwindling
Click to expand...


Try not to despair...take a look at some of the other condos and their SS's. Lots of people have struggled with high numbers and many of those have gotten much better or all the way to OTJ! There is a silver lining to this cloud - even if it's only to have your kitty with you for a long time feeling healthy and happy. Some of them just take a bit (lot) longer than others to get there. Some never do - I myself have resigned to accept what it is...the long road...and I'm thankful I was able to help Luci live a longer healthier life.

The vet I saw when she was first diagnosed offered no hope and only recommended one option (euthanasia)...he reluctantly gave me a prescription for Novalin - but advised me that it was very difficult to regulate cats and that Luci was not going to cooperate so it was just a matter of time.....I wasn't very happy to hear that news...needless to say I knew nothing and believed him! So after I got over the crying jag and trying to decide what day to proceed with the execution - I started researching and found this group! It's just over a year later and we still have good days and bad - but Luci is still with us and she seems to think life is good. :cat:
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
There's no doubt that Bear has a very sensitive "defense system". You are definitely getting better results now than with the ProZinc and in the big scheme of things, you haven't been at this with Lantus that long. I understand how frustrating bounces are but ECID and the time it takes them to start levelling out is different too. Bear usually come out a bounce relatively quickly so until he gets more used to those blue and green BGs, he's probably going to head to the sky periodically. You've got a good handle on him so my feeling is that if you follow TR closely, he will eventually become accustomed to those lower BGs and the blacks and reds on his spreadsheet will lessen.

I like Bobbie's idea of slightly higher carbs and more insulin to push him into good numbers more frequently but that of course has to be tempered around t your ability to monitor. There has, for good reason, been a period where doses were held for longer than normally suggested and there may still be an element of glucose toxicity involved.

I wish there was a magical solution but there isn't....all you can do is follow Bear's lead and act accordingly. He's running this show and so far you are doing a great job of dealing with his unique behaviour.
Click to expand...

My absolute main objective is for Bear to be safe and Blacks and Red levels are not.
 
Sue and Luci said:
Try not to despair...take a look at some of the other condos and their SS's. Lots of people have struggled with high numbers and many of those have gotten much better or all the way to OTJ! There is a silver lining to this cloud - even if it's only to have your kitty with you for a long time feeling healthy and happy. Some of them just take a bit (lot) longer than others to get there. Some never do - I myself have resigned to accept what it is...the long road...and I'm thankful I was able to help Luci live a longer healthier life.

The vet I saw when she was first diagnosed offered no hope and only recommended one option (euthanasia)...he reluctantly gave me a prescription for Novalin - but advised me that it was very difficult to regulate cats and that Luci was not going to cooperate so it was just a matter of time.....I wasn't very happy to hear that news...needless to say I knew nothing and believed him! So after I got over the crying jag and trying to decide what day to proceed with the execution - I started researching and found this group! It's just over a year later and we still have good days and bad - but Luci is still with us and she seems to think life is good. :cat:
Click to expand...


I don't care if Bear ever makes it to remission, that is not my main goal.
I am not being impatient for remission.
I am impatient to keep him out of danger.
Yes remission would be wonderful!
I just want as much time as can be had with Bear and for Bear to be fairly healthy and content with his life.
 
Bear & Lora said:
This strategy/technique seems counterproductive.
You raise their blood glucose with food and give them larger doses of Insulin to bring their BG down.
In this scenario once the Insulin has brought their BG down to blue or green levels wouldn't the self-preservation response cause a bounce also?
Click to expand...
I don't think right now that you would do that technique as he is not throwing ketones. I just threw it out there because you mentioned a cat that has had a recent DKA. Let's let the recent bounce clear from last night's greens and take it from there.

Just something to give you some hope. Some kitties bounce all the way into remission. One said kitty was @Tara & Ivana (GA) check out her SS.
 
I am sorry if I seem gruff with my responses. I am frustrated. Majority of my life I have found that more knowledge can bring you the results you are searching for.
In Bear's case the answers are alluding me.

Possibly the only recourse is to do what I can do at this point, force extra hydration, monitor, say a prayer or two each day and wait.......

Thank you all for your input.
 
Bear & Lora said:
Has anyone ever seen a SS of a cat with bounces to this degree, because I haven't found one?

If so, was there a technique used/method or a resolution?
Click to expand...
Check out Neko’s first year. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1o6QcyxaSb1hlUDAkcrrvg-5eo8f4JRvdVZPYdPzLbao/pub?output=html Ignore the first few weeks of a bad monitor, it took her a year to stop bouncing as high as red. I can point you to even more dramatic examples. Including DKA kitties. Such as Dyana’s JD, bounced to the moon for 9 years as a happy kitty.

You are not alone.:bighug: The more he sees green and blues, the less he’ll bounce. You do want to safely maximize the amount of insulin he is getting. Some cats do better with slightly higher carbs, like 8-9% carb food.
 
Sue and Luci said:
very difficult to regulate cats and that Luci was not going to cooperate so it was just a matter of time.....I wasn't very happy to hear that news...needless to say I knew nothing and believed him! So after I got over the crying jag and trying to decide what day to proceed with the execution - I started researching and found this group! It's just over a year later and we still have good days and bad - but Luci is still with us and she seems to think life is good. :cat:
Click to expand...
:bighug: :bighug: :bighug:
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Check out Neko’s first year. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1o6QcyxaSb1hlUDAkcrrvg-5eo8f4JRvdVZPYdPzLbao/pub?output=html Ignore the first few weeks of a bad monitor, it took her a year to stop bouncing as high as red. I can point you to even more dramatic examples. Including DKA kitties. Such as Dyana’s JD, bounced to the moon for 9 years as a happy kitty.

You are not alone.:bighug: The more he sees green and blues, the less he’ll bounce. You do want to safely maximize the amount of insulin he is getting. Some cats do better with slightly higher carbs, like 8-9% carb food.
Click to expand...

Okay, I don't know how I overlooked Neko's bounces as I have looked at her SS before. They are very similar to Bear's.:blackeye:

So you think Bear could do better with a little higher carb food?

I still don't understand the concept of this technique? :bighug:
 
Giving slightly higher carb food allows you to give a slightly higher dose. That higher dose can help curb the high numbers. I don't know if it'll work, but it's worth an experiment. What %carb are you feeding now?

I think another technique that might help you more is Feeding the Curve. Bear likes to take steep dives, which can also cause big bounces, and in some cases worse bounces than the low numbers. In this post, Jill describes feeding the curve to slow the drop. Tashie was another big dropper with lots of black.
 
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Wendy&Neko said:
Giving slightly higher carb food allows you to give a slightly higher dose. That higher dose can help curb the high numbers. I don't know if it'll work, but it's worth an experiment. What %carb are youy feeding now?

I think another technique that might help you more is Feeding the Curve. Bear likes to take steep dives, which can also cause big bounces, and in some cases worse bounces than the low numbers. In this post, Jill describes feeding the curve to slow the drop. Tashie was another big dropper with lots of black.
Click to expand...

He is on Friskies Pates or Classic 3 to 5%. I will get on this new info.:D
 
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