Bayer oontour meter reading "HI" for Louie at +2

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horselo285

Member Since 2011
Hi,

Louie just started Lantus and todays reading at +2 read at "HI"- I checked the meter on myself and it is working fine. I assume this means his bgs are off the charts. What should I do?

Also, What dose should I be giving Louie. My vet had said to do 1 unit is bg less then 360, 1/5-2 units if bg more then 360. But then I was told on this board, that it is recommended you stick with one dose and let the cat acclimate to it. Ive been giving him 1, which was fine at first...but now he is really high!

Any help would be appreciated!

-Laura
 
Hi Laura,

If you ever get a weird reading, test again immediately. Could have been a bum strip or other quirk.

Lantus dosing is based on the lowest number in the cycle (nadir) and not so much on the preshot number.

From the protocol :

"General" Guidelines:

Hold the initial starting dose for 5 - 7 days (10 - 14 consecutive cycles) unless the numbers tell you otherwise. Kitties experiencing high flat curves or prone to ketones may want to increase the starting dose after 3 days (6 consecutive cycles).

Each subsequent dose is held for a minimum of 3 days (6 consecutive cycles) unless kitty earns a reduction (See: Reducing the dose...).

Adjustments to dose are based on nadirs with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.
Click to expand...

It's very important to get at least 1 mid cycle check per cycle, that helps you get an idea as to where a dose is taking Louie.
If you can, get more spot checks, the more the better.

Do you have ketostix to check his urine for ketones?
 
Hi,

I did double check the reading and got the same "HI" reading. Then I tested the meter on myself and it read 60. I have been unable to test for ketones as I have other cats and have not been able to get him to urinate in a seperate littler box or in front of me. I try to test as often as possible, but I cannot do it when I am at work.. I am home today until 4:20 (which would a bit less then +6) and I will test him up until I leave.

He is only getting 1 UNIT am and pm as of now. Do you think the one unit is enough?

Thanks,

Laura
 
I'm just stopping in to say "Hi and Welcome to Lantus Land".
Lantus likes consistancy, and does not work like it is supposed to when doses are changed around a lot.
I wish you the best of luck with this insulin. Others will be along to help you and support you with your dosing concerns.
 
All of the info Sandy gave you is great.

Did your vet determine the dose should be started at 1 unit? It seems a little low to me, but I am not all that familiar with Louie and I only see a few days on the SS.

But...
From The Tight Regulation Protocol Sticky

Using a weight based formula for determining a starting dose of Lantus or Levemir:

the formula is 0.25 unit per kg of the cat's ideal weight

if kitty is underweight, the formula frequently used is 0.25 unit per kg of kitty's actual weight

if the cat was previously on another insulin, the starting dose should be increased or decreased by taking prior data into consideration

I'd wait for someone with more experience to come along for more advice. Are you sure he hasn't gotten into something? Dry food? Is he stressed out about something? Sometimes my kitty has really high numbers for no reason. It just happens...
 
Hi,

The vet had said that if his bg levels were less then 360 to give 1 and if they were more then 360, give 1.5-2. But if im not supposed to vary doses, then that will not work. :-/ He weighs about 8 lbs now and is still a big underweight--at least a 1/2 lb- 1 lb as I am estimating he should be 9 or 10 lbs...but im really not sure. I know he used to weigh about 11 but was overweight then. He is skinny still although but has def filled out in the past month that I have been caring for him!!) :-)

Also, I just found out from my dad that Louie got into the dogs hard food a while ago. Someone he got the storage container open. What a bratty little carb addict! lol
 
I think your vet is used to the other insulins where you do vary the dose according to pre shot numbers. Lots of vets (including mine) are not used to giving advice for Lantus. I am my vet's only client using Lantus (or now, Levemir).
My vet says "I'm a PZI man!". And he often trys to get me to change to PZI, because that's what he knows.
So, I pretty much just tell him what I want and he pretty much does what I want as far as diabetes concerns.
Usually, it is advised to stay with the same initial dose for 5 to 7 days, in the beginning. But, I would be checking for ketones, if I were you. Do you still have the litter box in your bathroom? Can you keep Louie downstairs in your apartment overnight, and maybe replace the litter with something non-absorbant like fish tank gravel, so you can get ketone tests?
Just some thoughts...

I wish you could teach your dad to test, so you know what the BG level is before each and every shot.

ETA: I'm so glad he is filling out, since you have taken over his care. Good Job! :-D
 
Dyana said:
I think your vet is used to the other insulins where you do vary the dose according to pre shot numbers. Lots of vets (including mine) are not used to giving advice for Lantus. I am my vet's only client using Lantus (or now, Levemir).
My vet says "I'm a PZI man!". And he often trys to get me to change to PZI, because that's what he knows.
So, I pretty much just tell him what I want and he pretty much does what I want as far as diabetes concerns.
Usually, it is advised to stay with the same initial dose for 5 to 7 days, in the beginning. But, I would be checking for ketones, if I were you. Do you still have the litter box in your bathroom? Can you keep Louie downstairs in your apartment overnight, and maybe replace the litter with something non-absorbant like fish tank gravel, so you can get ketone tests?
Just some thoughts...

I wish you could teach your dad to test, so you know what the BG level is before each and every shot.

ETA: I'm so glad he is filling out, since you have taken over his care. Good Job! :-D
Click to expand...

Thanks Dyana!

Louie still has a heart attack when I try to keep him down here. He will come for a few mins here and there but as soon as I close the door to keep him down, he is up at the stop of the stairs, scratching at the door and meowing so loud that its like yelling. I def can't lock him down at night as the noise he makes would wake up the baby. I also worry that if I am not watching him, he will pee somewhere besides the box (he already has a history of this when stressed and/or sick). I don't want to have pee in the apt for sooo many different reasons...lol the main one being that if the scent of pee is down here, my dogs may start peeing and that would be a HUGE HUGE HUGE problem. I am thinking about trying to find another room to lock him in for the night (with an easy to clean floor just in case) and put a litterbox with gravel or something.

I'll have to talk to my mom and see which room might be possible.

I am trying to talk my dad into testing....hopefully, he will eventually agree.

Do you think 1 unit is enough as his starting dose? He had been getting 2 of Humulin.... a little less for lower bgs and bit more for higher bgs.

Thanks so much!
-Laura
 
I am sending dad learn to test vines to you.

The HC dog food could take quite a while to get out of his system, like maybe over 24 hours. I would stick with the 1 unit, but hopefully we'll get some other opinions on that. Like I said, normally we recommend sticking with the same initial dose for 5 days, and then if an increase is needed, we increase by 0.25, and watch that new dose and stick with it consistantly (unless he goes too low) for 3 days, and then adjust again, if necessary.
Keep posting here. I'm so glad you finally did.
 
I think 1 unit is an appropriate starting dose for Louie, based on the weight formula of 0.25/kg of ideal weight. For underweight cats we use the current weight instead of the ideal weight. So 8 pounds is about 3.63 kg so that works out to a starting dose of 0.9 units.

When was Louie diagnosed? Has he had a history of ketones ever? How is he feeling?
 
when binks gets into hard kibble...it generally takes 30-40 hours to clear :sad:

best of luck to you & louie...

celi
 
I agree with Libby regarding starting dose. Lantus is different than N and it will take a few days for it to build up in Louie's system. It forms a depot, or "shed," over the first 5 - 7 days that you begin dosing. Because some of the insulin is going into forming the shed, not all of the Lantus is bioavailable. This is one of those times where you're going to need to be patient. Humulin N acts very differently and that's what you're used to seeing. Humulin is a harsh, intermediate acting insulin that yanks numbers down. Lantus is a long-acting insulin that is very gentle.
 
no advice, but i would blame the dog food. hopefully he can be prevented from ever getting it again! they're sneaking little hoovers when it comes to forbidden food. :lol:

the carbs will clear his system - you can't make a dose change based upon this temporary dry food crack-fest.
 
Thanks everyone! My work fundraiser ended up going longer then expected and I didnt get home until a little while ago. I ended up calling my dad and asking him to feed the cats and give Louie his insulin...but unfortunately, that means no bgs. I did test him two times before I left that are not on my ss atm- one was in the 500's the other somewhere in the 400's- I don't remember the exact numbers, but it is saved in the meter and I will fill it in tomorrow. He did end up getting his dose a bit late then usual and the clocks move back tonight...how should I handle tomorrows dose?

He usually gets it at 10:30 am and 10:30 pm but my dad was working untill 11, so he did not get it untill 11:30ish- so about an hour late. Which means it will be about 2 hours early (with the time change) if I do it at the normal time tomorrow. I will test him at least once tonight before I go to sleep- gonna work on a research paper anyway...lol

Tomorrow is my youngest sons 1st b-day....so I am taking the boys to the zoo- but I will try and get testing in first and as soon as I get home. Then monday I work- so it won't be until Tuesday that I will really be able to keep a good eye on his levels.


Libby- Louie was diagnosed a few years ago. He was my brothers cat and my brother had some method of figuring out how much insulin he needed. Although he never tested his bgs (dunno if he tested urine), Louie was a good weight, happy and healthy. My brother had to move a couldn't take him- he asked my parents if they could take him and they agreed. My dad was doing his insulin, but he was not being tested and was not being treated by a vet. My moms friend who is a vet has been coming for vaccinations and basic checkup- but she did not really deal with the diabetes. I realized a little more then a month ago that Louie had lost a bunch of weight. I ended up taking over his care as my dad wasnt taking it seriously. I am doing my best to keep over it with my very full schedule (school full time, work part time, 2 kids, an apt and 2 dogs to care for..lol) but I do find it overwhelming at times. :-/

He has no history of ketones to my knowledge. He was checked for them at the vet a little less then 2 weeks ago but there was no sign of any. :-) But that was before the switch to lantus....so I have no idea what they are doing now. I did not get to talk to my mom tonight about seeing which room I may be able to lock him in to try and get a urine sample- but I will in the am. She was not home when I left and is in bed now.

Anyways, time to work on my research paper! ugh!
 
you want to give the morning shot 12 hours after tonight's shot. i'm not sure from your description what that means, but that's what is desirable. if you give the shot early, it acts like a dose increase. a late shot acts like a decrease. in your situation, even though he's high, i don't think i'd give a shot 2 hours early. you can have an overlap from the action of the lantus that could be bad.

there is a litter box called The Breeze (google for a coupon on it - it's a big coupon) that has a non-absorbing filler and the urine passes through the filler to a tray underneath. it's supposed to have an absorbent pad in the tray, but to check ketones you don't use the pad and then you can dip the ketostix into the urine to test. you can also fill a temporary litter box (i slip a cardboard box into a plastic leaf bag) with lentils or washed gravel and have them go in that. some people bury a dixie cup into the litter to catch some, or put some plastic wrap down to catch a bit. some people also stalk the cat with an old soup ladle to try to slip under the cat when they squat. i tried that one - but punkin squats like a girl and he has the hairy-est thighs ever! :lol:

i have yet to successfully test punkin, but he almost never gets higher numbers, so i don't worry as much. with high numbers it becomes very important to test. ketones can develop quickly - some people test every day.

the one thing you can do to help is to get lots of water into Louie. Add water to his food - it's good for a diabetic cat anyway, but especially if numbers are high it's helpful. you can add equal amounts of water to the food.

happy birthday to your son! :-D my babies are all grown - my youngest is 19 and in college. enjoy your little ones!
 
i see you're on, laura - are you doing ok? i'm going to head for bed but wanted to check on all of you starting new to make sure nobody was in trouble.

btw, you, cini mini and tiki are all new in the past day or two - i've suggested to the others that you could probably learn a lot reading each other's condos. it's very enlightening and you're in similar places right now.

eta - now you're off - so i'm headed for bed. other members are on again anyway. if you run into trouble there's often someone on - so just post.
 
Hey!

Yea, sorry, all is fine! If I open my computer, it automatically says im online. Louie's levels were great this am! 156 before his shot- gonna go check him again now. However, I just found out that my dad accidentally gave him 2 units last night. I did not know that until just now. I am about to take my children out for the day, but I will come one when I get home!

-Laura
 
Laura,
You're doing well with Louie and I agree the 1u dose is where to stay for a little while. KT's numbers went up for a few days after we started Lantus due to the difference of the actions of the 2 insulins but it then started stabilizing.

Hugs and HB to your baby....my #2 son turned 36 yesterday...can't figure out why THEY are all getting so old when I'm not getting older... ;-)
 
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