Basil: AMBG 102, +1.5=133, +3=98, +8=164, +10=134, +11=103

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Lydia--(Rosie & Basil) GA

Lydia--(Rosie & Basil) GA

Member Since 2009
Hi Sugar Cat Lovers,

I have been remiss in not coming back this March to celebrate Basil's 2 yr annifursary. When I was last here in September, he had learned to open his overnight automatic feeder and I was wondering what to do about that. Well, I ended up putting out his "night" food with his last feeding at 11pm and mostly, he eats it all up right then. Sigh.

But, I have gotten a little worried about The Beezer lately, There have been some changes, the biggest being that he is no longer allowed out of the fenced yard. We have an elaborate system of pet doors, one of which locks and leads to teh outside world and to Basil's FAVORITE spot on the deck for sunning. The kitties were allowed out that door during daylight hours only. After 6pm or so, they were allowed only into the fenced yard. All this is because of coyotes. Now, my neighbor tells me he saw a coyote going after his cat at around 10am. Also, we apparently have a den with young back in our woods and the howling and yipping is sometimes really loud. So no more outside world.

Well after the cats were kept away from the outside word door for a week, I opened it for them mid afternoon to see what Basil would do. He looked pretty freaked and went out very very cautiously. The dog followed and they both sniffed the deck very intently. Basil went down his ramp to the yard and sniffed around for maybe 15 minutes, then came in. Half an hour later, he just looked "off" so I popped his ear and got 187!

He had been vomiting a bit a week or so before, and that always seems to bring his sugar up for a while, but I have been testing quite a bit the last few days and don't love what I am seeing: numbers ranging from 88 to 181. He does want to go out. He tried to sneak past me the other day. Could this be stress?

He has had high sugar episodes before, after a dental, while people were staying with us. Vomiting, as I said. I have a vet appt for my dog Tuesday morning and could take Basil instead, but he stresses so badly at the vet, I hate to do it when he seems fine otherwise. Anyone who wants to take a look at his spreadsheet and comment--your advice would be appreciated.

One other thing: in the past few months, I added three new FF flavors, 8, 7, and 6 carbs respectively, but NOT wheat gluten free, My next shipment from Pet Food DIrect goes out Tuesday and I removed those and added two more non-gluten. We rotate through about a dozen flavors of FF to keep the cats interested.

Thanks so much!
 
Re: Basil: Two Yrs, Three Mnths OTJ Today--But I'm a Bit Wor

Hi guys...nice to see you! (((Lydia & Basil)))
I had a thought or two....from my own experience. If I were you, I would lower the carb content of the food for sure. I noticed that higher carbs will raise my two's numbers without a doubt. No point in that....right? So, to keep them interested, I sprinkle freeze-dried Pure Bites chicken (dog treat actually) on top. (I get mine on Amazon and use the link on top of the FDMB page so we get credit here for the order....but Petsmart has a different brand available I believe) My two really like it...but I need to now put it on top of all their meals! ohmygod_smile :lol:

The coyotes are a problem, especially in spring with their pups around. My goodness, if you can hear them it would make my BGs rise myself!! Now, my Raja's BGs rise with stress.....and a trip to the vet office raises her an easy 100 points for sure! I have tested that often....she seems to raise her BGs like my Mother used to raise her blood pressure!! :lol:

We lived on Cape Cod right near a bog. The coyotes had their dens there....and in spring of that last year, I lost my beautiful Jealousy. He used to go out a lot ....and travel much further than Raja and Shadow would go. He disappeared one very sad evening....and I believe the coyotes are to blame. They hunt in pairs at least...and distract their prey. They are very sly and very good at what they do...they need to be to feed their young. A pair or a pack of them and one kitty doesn't stand much of a chance. So, I would make triply sure that none of my pets get out....ever again!!! Not only in springtime either....if there is a den nearby, all seasons of the year are dangerous!!!

But their scent on the deck could be upsetting to Basil.... all of the things you mention might be the reasons you are seeing his BGs fluctuate. Keep an eye on them for sure....but lower the carbs and see what happens.
When was the last time he went to the vet for blood work?
When was his last dental? Sometimes their BGs will show a rise when they have inflammation going on in their mouths....so if he hasn't been to the vet for a check up within a year, then maybe that would be a good idea if possible...

I am hoping that some of our expert thinkers will be by to give you suggestions. For myself, i just wanted to add my humble experiences...(Raja was OTJ for about 8 months at one point a long time ago....and she needed to go back on the juice herself. It's not the end of the work...after all, once a diabetic, always a diabetic. But maybe you can get his numbers back down to a consistent low range and he will be fine ....staying at the Falls with no more insulin needed!! ) :mrgreen:
Take good care of yourself Lydia! Scritches to Basil!! I wish you well....sending hugs to you both.
 
Re: Basil: Two Yrs, Three Mnths OTJ Today--But I'm a Bit Wor

Hey, Lydia!!

Any time someone stops back and is worried about their OTJ kitty's numbers, my first thought is teeth! Needing a dental has thrown any number of cats out of remission. I do think it wouldn't be a bad idea to get labs run on Basil and most vets do get labs if they are planning on doing a dental. While inflated numbers can be from stress, they an also be the initial red flag that an infection is brewing. Getting blood work will tell you that.

The vomiting could be anything from a reaction to the gluten in the food you've been using to pancreatitis. If you want to rule out the latter, you'll need to ask your vet for a spec fPLI.
 
Re: Basil: Two Yrs, Three Mnths OTJ Today--Opinions Needed P

Thanks, Pat. Thanks, Sienne.

I added Basil to the vet appointment for tomorrow for bloodwork.

We also made plans to re-fence part of the yard to permit Basil (and Rosie and EMmett) to have access to their sunny balcony again, but that is going to take some days and will cause poor Bail more temporary upheaval.

QUESTION: What kind of BG levels are we looking for and and for how long before we need to begin insulin again? He has always been a "high roller" and he seems healthy and happy. But I want to jump on this if it needs jumping.

Thanks!
 
Re: Basil: 2 Yrs, 3 Mnths OTJ--Opinions, Pls?

There's no hard and fast rule here. I'd want to see BG number that are, for the most part, under 120. Some cats do bounce around even though they are OTJ. Barbara's Tuffy is one who comes to mind. Stress will set Tuffy's numbers way out of range and then they drop down to the 50s.
 
Re: Basil: 2 Yrs, 3 Mnths OTJ--Opinions, Pls?

Wow! That's quite some range! Basil tends to run between mid 80s for lows and about 120 for a high. That used to worry me but after a year of fussing about it, he looked at me and said, "Bug off! I've gotta be me!" and so i respect that. ;)
 
Re: Basil: 2 Yrs, 3 Mnths OTJ--Opinions, Pls?

Well, an 85 and an 81 later today. Hmmm. (Although the strip was not full for the 85, which generally produces a reading higher than real. So he could be doing even better than I think.

Lots of sniffing around from the dog and he was fearful of taking a walk this morning. I think the coyotes come out near the screened porch where Basil hangs out during the night. (The porch is a full story up and the stairs are inside the fenced yard , with an electric fence!)
 
Re: Basil: 2 Yrs, 3 Mnths OTJ--Opinions, Pls?

Hi Lydia,

Is it possible for you to add a screened roof to at least part of the yard near the patio and their favorite places to play so there is no way the coyotes can get in there? My sister had a setup like that over her pool and part of the yard and it really makes for a safe environment for her cat. I'd be afraid of the coyotes getting over the fence. They're brilliant hunters.

Melanie & Racci
 
Re: Basil: 2 Yrs, 3 Mnths OTJ--Opinions, Pls?

Hi Melanie,

Oh, we're really worried too. That's why there is an electric fence wire around the top of all the chain link fence. And the fence is 5ft tall before the electric wire.

The area that the dog was sniffing is an area outside the fence that Basil can view from the screened-in porch and he loves spending time there so I imagine he sees or hears or smells them at night.

The things we all do for our pets!
 
Re: Basil: 2 Yrs, 3 Mnths OTJ--Opinions, Pls?

I'm glad you have the electric wire going around it, Lydia. Those wild animals are beautiful to live near but scary for our babies. I have raccoons on my deck every night. They're adorable but I know they could do some damage to Racci if she ever got out at the same time. It's a scary thought. Luckily she's scared of the outdoors and only goes out with me. She likes to stay close to mommy outside.

It's true though, we go over and beyond to keep them safe. They're our babies! :razz:

I hope you get good news from the vet. Good luck!

Melanie & Racci
 
Re: Basil: 2 Yrs, 3 Mnths OTJ--Opinions, Pls?

Lydia & Basil!! Happy to see you here, sorry it's for any problems--Moonie eats only the very lowest carb FF they make, and we have never waivered from this...
doesnt go out ever either..Just not our thing!
No cat likes the vet! But our kitties do need to be checked every 6 mths or so, or when there's a problem.
Hope Basil is just fine, you know we lubs you & miss you--Hugs & Love from us!!
 
Re: Basil: 2 Yrs, 3 Mnths OTJ--Opinions, Pls?

Hi Lydia,
CT sounds like a wild place! I hope that you can get your yard protected from the coyotes. We have them here, too, but not in the village. Cats have disappeared a mile up the road, however, where coyotes have been spotted. So do be careful when Basil goes out.
His numbers sound like they are mostly within the "normal" range (50-120), but you are smart to get him checked out by the vet even if it does raise his bgs temporarily. Rusty had higher than usual numbers several months ago. I took him to the vet and asked her to do all the bloodwork, including the spec fPL test for pancreatitis, and it turned out that he did indeed have a mild case of pancreatitis. He's going to the vet tomorrow for a follow-up test.

I hope that all will go well with Basil's vet appt. tomorrow and that a solution can be found for protecting your yard.
Don't be a stranger!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: Basil: 2 Yrs, 3 Mnths OTJ--New Question Re Dental

Back from the vet and Basil left both the vet and tech with ost of their fingers.

He does have a tooth problem and is scheduled for a dental on June 11. I had him into the vet just two months ago because I thought he was eating more slowly but he didn't see anything then. I guess this has been brewing. Should I just wait for the dental and hope his BG values go down after? Last dental (shortly after he went OTJ) his BG went up and stayed up for several weeks. Or do we monitor and consider insulin before the dental at some point? Is it better to have the dental on or off insulin?

Ella, I hope you did well at the vert today with Rusty.

Ronnie, Basil seems to be liking the vet less and less as time goes on. He has gotten pretty feisty when he is there. It was as if he tolerated it once a year, but now that he goes more often, he has decided to go on strike about it! BTW, how high a carb count does Moonie get? I am now capping at 5, to allow Turkey Feast and Chicken Feast onto the list. Trout Feast, Chicken & Tuna, and whatever it was & Mackerel are gone now from our menu since they were 6, 7 and 8.
 
Re: Basil: 2 Yrs, 3 Mnths OTJ--New Question Re Dental

This was just my own experience, but Donny's BGs drifted from OTJ into the yellows apparently due to major dental issues, but I chose to wait until after his surgery before deciding to start up insulin again. His numbers drifted back down to his normal levels within a few weeks, so I did not end up giving him any insulin.

MJ
 
Re: Basil: New Question about Dental and Insulin or No

I'm not sure what to suggest here especially since Basil decided to surf green yesterday. I did notice your food schedule, though. Can you divide Basil's food more evenly over AM and PM cycles? He's getting 1.5 cans during the day and 3/4 of a can at night. First, that seems like a lot of food. In addition, he's getting 4 meals during the AM cycle and one during the PM. Frequent, small meals are better for the pancreas.

Let me see if I can get more eyes on Basil's SS.
 
Re: Basil: New Question about Dental and Insulin or No

Sienne,

His amount is good since his weight is steady. And he is not overweight. Although as he stays in more, he may have to deal with a small cutback.

I used to feed him 1/4 can with a feeder during the night and only half at 11pm. But he learned to open it, and ate it all the minute I put it out!So the last three months or so he has been going from 11 or 11:30pm until 8am with no food. I do have a much larger, more armored feeder and may introduce that. Before the small feeder, I was getting up at 3am every night to feed him, but I really had had enough of that. I did it one day last week and there was no difference in his AMBG.

Not arguing, just filling in the data.
 
Re: Basil: New Question about Dental and Insulin or No

I did a quick consult with Jill and Libby. Given Basil's number today, none of us is comfortable with the idea of restarting insulin. For all of us, if we'd looked at Basil's SS yesterday, our response may have been different.

If you can spread out the food evenly and experiment with small, frequent meals for several days, I'd like to see if that makes any difference. You're not going to see a change overnight. Sometimes, it can take weeks, although I hope this isn't the case. I'd also step up the testing a bit so you can see if there's a response to food. Remember, if there's an infection/tooth problem, Basil's system is being overtaxed and you don't want to risk further damage to his pancreas.
 
Re: Basil: New Question about Dental and Insulin or No

Thanks for checking, Sienne, but I don;t understand. Are you saying feed him more often that once every 4 hours? Because if I add back in the overnight feeding, he is eating every four hours with one gap of 5 and one of 3 instead. that can easily be evened out. But do you mean more frequently than that?

And what do you mean about response to food? I thought the idea was not to test until about 2 hours after eating, but to expect a drop from a food high in about 2 to 3 hours. What were you suggesting was interesting to see in terms of hours post-food to test?
 
Re: Basil: New Question about Dental and Insulin or No

You can more evenly distribute the amounts of food. In addition, I'd try to get Basil more than just one meal during the PM cycle.

There's no "rule" about not testing until 2 hours after a meal. The rationale behind not feeding 2 hours before pre-shot is that you don't want to base whether or not you shoot on what might be a food spike. As far as testing during the cycle, it makes no difference when you test. If you look at Gabby's SS, for example, I feed her during the first few hours of the cycle and I'm testing usually every time I'm feeding.

If you go back to the new to the group sticky, a food spike is usually expected at +1. The numbers drop back to roughly pre-shot level at +2 with insulin. For a cat that's not on insulin, food should stimulate the pancreas to produce it's own insulin. You would need to test for a couple of hours after you feed to know whether Basil's pancreas is responding.
 
Re: Basil: New Question about Dental and Insulin or No

For the next few nights, I will get up and feed him at 3am. My husband will feed at 7am. That puts him
On an every four hr schedule. I can also switch up one of the
Half and quarters to redistribute. Sorry this is a mess but I am usi g
The blasted iPod. And if I don't split lines it gets reeeaaally slow.
Thanks, sienne!
 
Re: Basil: New Question about Dental and Insulin or No

I'd vote for seeing if you can convince Basil to use the armor covered feeder!

If I don't stop by once you see how Basil is responding to changing up the food, please send me a PM to nudge me.
 
Re: Basil: AMBG 102, +1.5=133

Wel, he was looking good before eating this morning but the 133 at +1.5 doesn't strike me as great. (I tried a test at PM+2 last night but the window didn't fill fully and I don't know if the resulting 128 was meaningful or not.)
 
Re: Basil: AMBG 102, +1.5=133

That's probably a food spike. If you recall the OTJ instructions, we suggest testing a couple of hours (2 or 3 or so) after a meal. It takes a little while for the pancreas to kick in.
 
Re: Basil: AMBG 102, +1.5=133, +3=98, +8=163

I guess I misunderstood and thought you were suggesting testing between feeding and +2. Anyway, we do have a nice 98 at +3. :)

But not so nice to see 164 at +8. This +8 was +4 after a feeding of 1/4 can.

AND, he was 149 at the vet yesterday at about +2 in the morning, which is surprising since the vet usually amps him up quite a bit. The vet found nothing wrong in his blood panel. And nothing even that he considered an item to watch. He is scheduled for a dental on Monday morning.
 
Re: Basil: AMBG 102, +1.5=133, +3=98, +8=164, +10=134, +11=1

Summary of today so far (testing always precedes feeding when they are at the same time)

AMBG = 102
+0 1/2 can FF

+1.5=133
+3=98
+4 1/4 can FF

+8=164
+8 1/2 can FF

+10=134
+11=103

It does look as if food brings him down. Not as low as before but maybe the dental will take care of that? Even though his white count was not elevated, I imagine he could have a low-grade infection in his gums.
 
Re: Basil: AMBG 102, +1.5=133, +3=98, +8=164, +10=134, +11=1

I agree. Needing the dental could be the issue. Even if it's just some inflammation, it's still a stress on Basil's system and could effect BG numbers.
 
Re: Basil: AMBG 102, +1.5=133, +3=98, +8=164, +10=134, +11=1

Thanks, Sienne. I think I will do at most one spot check today at a time I expect him to be low and see how we look.
 
Re: Basil: AMBG 102, +1.5=133, +3=98, +8=164, +10=134, +11=1

Yes, Lydia. Gizmo loves having his teeth brushed (or he loves the treats, I'm not exactly sure which.) When I got home today, he promptly jumped on the vanity and was chewing on a toothbrush. I've created a monster!
 
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