Bart update 8/5 bouncing?

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bartcat

Member Since 2012
Hi,
Been gathering lots of data.
Bart was on 6 units (prozinc for a long time now, vetsulin previously) for about 8 years - regulated just based on behavior/clinicals during that time, on mixed dry and can food
heard that only wet food is best so switched to all can for about 1-2 weeks and had a hypo - then i found this board.
I went ahead after the hypo and SLGS, starting at 2 units, since he had been on 6 before. I upped to 2.5 and his clinicals are worse pu/pd much increased and 'missing' the litter box, hes not feeling well. Since he had been on such a high dose before with pretty good results, i just upped the dose again to 3.0 units tonite.

Could someone who is used to the ss patterns and prozinc please please take a look at our numbers and notes in Bart's SS and share your experience and wisdom with me? my sugar-boy is older (13 yrs) been diabetic for about 8 yrs now, and i dont want to continue to stress him....

when 6 units regulated fairly well with a dry DM with a little can dM for 8 years, could it be possible that 2.5 units is too much on just LC can???
:roll: thank you thank you in advance!
 
Re: dose too high or too low?? Prozinc help please

It looks like your spreadsheet stops at 7/15? I liked his numbers on 2 units. He got some nice blues overnight. 7/15 the first test was higher (food?). And then he went down 50% at nadir.

I might have increased by less than .5 units. You can do that with U100 needles and a conversion chart.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm

It may be that you are skipping over a good dose by increasing by too much at a time and too fast.
 
Re: dose too high or too low?? Prozinc help please

Thanks Sue for replying!
And oops on the ss - i imported the latest so you should see data up to tonight.
I will buy some u100's tomorrow
Keep in mind with the numbers you see that Bart did have a significant hypo on 7/8, how long do residual numbers stay skewed after a hypo? And his numbers seemed to go back up on the 2 units. Is it possible for a cat who had been on 6 units bid and mixed dry (mostly) and can food to now only need around a third of that simply from the change to all lc can food? he did seem more regulated on the dry food when he was on 6 units, if i ran out and just put him on can he did not do as well and in hindsight with the info i've found here i think he was very mildly hypo at those times....

after the hypo, i started from scratch at 2 units and left him on it for quite awhile, but cant really discern what those somewhat higher numbers mean after being on 2 for a while. Do his numbers look like 2.5 is too high? Should i potentially go down below 2 and start over again?

Thanks so much for taking the time to look at his info in the ss! Big hug!
- i imagine you veterans can pick up on distinctive bg responses, unlike us newbies :)
 
Re: dose too high or too low?? Prozinc help please

Here's a thread about the syringes to get

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=64269&hilit=Syringe. Be sure to print off the conversion chart.

If he were mine, I think I'd get the U100s and try 2.2 or something for a few cycles, testing to see the nadirs.

Is he completely on wet low carb food and snacks?

Oliver went down 100 points overnight when we switched from dry to wet so yes, it can make a big difference.
 
Re: dose too high or too low?? Prozinc help please

Hi Sue,
Yes, Bart is only on low carb can, friskies pate and fancy feast classics, and now gets fed every 3 hrs using autofeeder, since so many here recommended that over the two meals a day. No treats other than sometimes a tiny dab of can or a little nibble of my chicken or meat as a treat - no commercial treats. i bought the purebites freezedried no carb treats but he doesnt like those, which is weird because he never turns down any food.

So you think those numbers at 2 units were accurate even tho he had a hypo just prior? he had some good numbers i think on the 2.5 but then because his number was low preshot i did no shot or much reduced shot, which seemed to break the blue streak....

I took him up to 3 tonight, because his bg and pu/pd have been higher since the 2.5 settled in, also thinking that after having been on such a high dose before that even with the diet change, he couldnt need that much less.
But i also am beginning to think that maybe i overshot the dose as i've read here the numbers can look like you need more insulin when you really need less? so am i looking for an approximate 50% reduction in numbers from preshot to nadir? does that level of reduction indicate regulation or appropriate dosage?

sorry for all the questions all over the place - just so much to figure out arrrggghhh :)
Thanks! Cat (catherine)
 
Re: dose too high or too low?? Prozinc help please

When you get an unshootable preshot, it generally means the dose is too high. Better to have two shootable preshots than to skip or give a token dose, which happened on 7/22 with your 2.5

We consider a cat regulated when they are in then 200 range at preshot and 100 or below at nadir (but higher than 40). The 40-50% drop at nadir is a nice drop and I'd say indicates a nice dose

Have we given you the PZI document?

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32799
 
Re: dose too high or too low?? Prozinc help please

Hi Cat,

What concerns me more than the numbers is the notes on your SS lately. You've noted that PU/PD is increasing, and he's missing the LB. How does he look as far a mobility? Do you think he's having trouble getting in the box? Usually when a cat goes outside the box, they are trying to tell you something.

It looks like occasionally, you are seeing good drops or longer than normal cycles, but most cycles it looks like "not enough" insulin to me. Is there the chance that something else is going on, like an infection maybe? Dental issues? Have you gotten a ketone check in the past couple of days? It might not be that the dose is too low, but rather that something is causing elevated numbers, if that makes any sense.

Carl
 
Re: dose too high or too low?? Prozinc help please

Thanks guys,
I will pick up U100's today and see if i can get a vet appt for monday for check up blood work etc. I am away from home for 12 hrs tues - fri due to work schedule, so that limits my nadir testing; and because of my work the testing middle of the night really compromises me, so can only do it occasionally.

Last night Bart woke me up - sounded like vomiting but i think he was trying to hack up a hairball. I tested him to make sure no hypo (was in the 300s) and gave him some hairball medicine (we call it gut-slick :)). He seems to be feeling a little better this morning and he went inside the box last night - could hairballs cause high numbers?

His mobility is fine. He's always been a lazy cat - hes about 18 lbs and a big boy, large not obese just slightly overweight. He has been spending his usual time spread out on the coffee table and dresser tops, so i dont think his mobility was keeping him outta the box, which is very low sides anyway. You're right, he goes outside the box to tell me something - historically he has done it when his sugar is running high - when he pees alot between my scoops then i think he doesnt want to step in it and thats why the #2 is next to the box, or when he is not feeling well. he never goes #1 outside the box only #2. I havent been able to catch him going to get ketone test during the week this week, but i'll stay on it over the weekend and get one. There are no other indicators of infection, his appetite is great as usual - hes a pretty resilient boy, not usually sickly. I'm just kinda flying blind and second guessing whether dose is too low or not at around 2.5-3, since he had previosly done well on 6 units for around 8 years (not bg monitored, just adjusted based clinicals and tho on mostly dry food)???

I'll update his ss after the amps test, in about an hour from this post; and then its off to work and i can check back this evening.

Thank you thank you both for all the input!!
Cat
 
UPDATE dose too high or too low?? Prozinc help please

After a lightening strike and replacement modem and router - I'm back...

Ok, so Bart is feeling much better. good clinicals.
I increased his dose to 3.0 units (prozinc) and though he's feeling much better and acting like normal now - his curve is flat looking?? we've been on 3 for a while now, but it looks like he needs more insulin to me? Or is the pattern suggestive of too high a dose? when we were on the lower 2.5 he did not feel well, so i am hesitant to lower the dose...

Please take a look at our numbers and see if with the more data there is a particular pattern? the 3 units is still only half of what he was on for so long.....
He is on prozinc, eats every three hours 0, +3, +, +9.... his numbers for those times are before feeding; diet is fancy feast, friskies per the Binky's list, he eats alot, his appetite is still great but not ravenous/starving as before; no dry or commercial treats, for treats he gets a nibble of can only.

Thank you in advance!
Cat
 
Re: dose too high or too low?? Prozinc help please

Hi Cat,
I agree, it doesn't look like "less" is a good idea. But right this minute, I don't think "more" is either, at least for another day or two.
The green number yesterday is probably the cause of the higher and flatter numbers since. The pinks last night and this morning look like a bounce from the low yesterday. I'd give 3.0 a couple more chances to give you a decent looking curve, and then I'd say that an increase to 3.25 would probably make sense.

Given your feeding schedule, which is fine, a flatter cycle is logical, as you are spreading out the carb load from feeding pretty evenly throughout the day. Is the overnight feed schedule the same? There isn't necessarily anything wrong with a flatter cycle, providing the colors are nice. If you can get a consistent curve that is yellow and blue, those would be good cycles, IMO. At that point, small increases should bring all the numbers down together.

Carl
 
Re: dose too high or too low?? Prozinc help please

Thanks Carl !
I'll plan on holding at 3 units for a few more days especially since bart is feeling ok.
Yes bart is fed every 3 hrs overnight too - got an autofeeder to even out his intake. So it's +3 +6 +9 around the clock.

Thanks so much for the feedback. Hopefully sue and some others will also offer some opinions and input - i can use all the collaboration i can get!

I'll keep gathering numbers where i can and hopefully a clearer picture will emerge. I'll post an update fri or Sat or sooner if any big changes.

Thanks again and omg bob is so freakin adorable as a kitten ! :D
gratefully yours, cat
 
Re: dose too high or too low?? Prozinc help please

LOL, Bob thanks you. It's funny because in 12 years, his body increased in size by ten times at least, but I don't think his head got any bigger!

Carl
 
Re: dose too high or too low?? Prozinc help please

I agree. That green in the middle of the cycle looked nice. Some cats bounce up into really high numbers after a lower than usual number; some just have flat numbers the next cycle. Looks like Bart may be a flat guy. A few more cycles should tell us.

The fact that he is feeling better supports the dose increase.
 
Re: dose too high or too low?? Prozinc help please

Thanks Sue !
That one cycle with the blues and green got me excited till the bounce. Do all or most kitties bounce ? Plus i think bart is used to running high and normal numbers seem to give him mild hypo signs. Is that something that happens? I use the relion confirm and my civie tested at 60 so i think it's accurate.
Yep i think we'll give it another work week before i think about changing the dose again.

Also, i have the u100's now so i can make finer dose changes. On the 3 Im still using the u40's to use them up.

Thank you!
Cat
 
Re: dose too high or too low?? Prozinc help please

Do all or most kitties bounce ?
Click to expand...

Yes, Cat, most cats go through the "bouncing" routine. Your next question might be "how long do they do that?" And the best way I have seen that answered is "kitties bounce until they don't". There is no "normal", every cat is different.

Plus i think bart is used to running high and normal numbers seem to give him mild hypo signs. Is that something that happens?
Click to expand...
Bart's body is most likely used to high bg numbers depending on how long they might have been elevated before you saw any diabetes symptoms. So "high" became his "normal" as far as his body is concerned. Some cats will bounce as a result of a quick steep drop in BG, like going from 350 to 50 in 6 hours. Other cats will bounce just because they experience a long run of what their body feels are "low numbers". That might be a 180 if they have been living in the 300-400 range for a long time. Some people have observed that when their kitty is in what we consider good numbers, that they seem to acting "off" somehow, and actually act like they feel better when their numbers are up in the 300 range. That seems to go away, as does bouncing, the more time the cat lives in lower numbers. It's like they have to relearn what "normal" is, and that can take some time.

Carl
 
Update dose too high or just right? Prozinc help please

Hi Carl and Sue and any others interested :)

Update on Bart's numbers - they're kinda interesting/weird. Last night they dropped kinda fast, so I kept getting up to check on him and get some numbers, which seemed really steady and not in danger of hypo. Later in the night when I got up for the + 6 (midnight) he was fine, happy and feeling good, so i did not test bg because I was exhausted/wonky and i didnt want to keep torturing him when he seemed fine and had been cruising steady and even in blue, no scary dropping....

I love my boy so much and feel like a terrible mom because It's so hard for me to keep getting up every couple of hours when I have to get up and work for 12 hrs at 4 a.m. - I want to do everything I can for him, but I can't operate properly on such little sleep during my work week. I'm so punch-drunk at those later hrs from getting up over and over that I'm actually afraid I'll poke his eye out with the lancet or something.

Now, based on the numbers since, I'm starting to think either we're really close to the right dose and Bart's system is trying to figure out what it should or should not be doing...... Or perhaps the dose is too high??? I just can't figure it out. I do worry a little that he may be dropping too low during the day maybe - but am not here to see or test. What was really amazing was the negative glucose in urine yesterday! But then I got that bizarre 405 bg at pmps that was down to 263 at +1, even tho i fed him immediately after his pm shot (at 0)??? The pmps was only a tiny drop of blood, but my meter didnt give me a low sample error...(relion confirm)... so i thought that number was real - yet dont believe his bg could drop that fast that soon... Have you guys ever seen anything like that or do you think that todays pmps was just a bad reading?

geez this is sooo bewildering @-) If Bart was your baby, what would you do? Hold at 3 and give him time to adjust further or reduce dose and by how much....? Any and all musings appreciated - bless you guys and sorry for my whining
Cat
 
Re: Update - dose too high or just right?? Prozinc

Up to the minute update...

His numbers dropped kinda fast tonight and he's in the green at +4 (61 bg) and seems to be feeling fine. To be safe i gave him an extra feeding at +4 (he just ate at +3). Wonder why he cruized along in the blue last night and tonight fast drop - dont know what he did today daytime. Although - maybe friskies last night gave him a little more carbs? I was reading the label and it has rice as an ingredient unlike the fancy feast and special kitty. Perhaps the friskies has changed since binkys list? Or is that nice even response on the friskies what i want to shoot for and should continue to feed him. Orrrr, maybe it has nothing to do with the specific food.

It's gonna be another wonky night for me - I'll be keeping an eye on him.

So, continue with 3 units bid, though I will not be home tomorrow and friday to offset potential dips? Or reduce dose to be safe? Though i do not want to undo our progress to the good numbers <sigh>

Thanks you guys for any thoughts!
 
Re: Update - dose too high or just right?? Prozinc

Hi Cat....
I'm still catching up and looking at his SS, but I'll be right back.
Carl
 
Re: Update - dose too high or just right?? Prozinc

Hmmm. Not sure Cat. I don't know if the 405 was a bad reading or a bounce from a low number midcycle. Either way, 3 units looks okay if you have a preshot in the 300s IF you can monitor. Below that, I would reduce.

It is a little nerve wracking this early in the sugar dance to have such low nadirs. It would be fine if you were around and could monitor and give him some higher carb if he dips low. I wonder about being cautious until the weekend when you can monitor and can be a little more agressive?

I see Carl is on. Let's see what he thinks.
 
Re: Update - dose too high or just right?? Prozinc

OK, back.

Starting with last night, and I wish I'd been around if you posted then...
When you got the 83 and didn't shoot, that was exactly the right thing to do. Then it looks like you got a rise to 134 at +1? If that's the case, then I would have told you to skip the shot, or to reduce the dose drastically. The numbers you got after that at +3 and +4 (he read 141 and 152) were from eating, and at that time, the insulin probably just started kicking in. There's no telling if, or how low, he went after that, but you did say he looked fine when you checked on him in the middle of the night.
This morning's number was most likely a "bounce" from yesterday's low numbers. The 83 was low enough to have caused that even if he didn't go down too far last night. The 405 you saw tonight was also probably partly due to the bouncing, because sometimes it can take 24 hours or longer for the bounces to clear.

Right now, I would say that the 3u dose is too much insulin. He's dropped better than 350 points in 4 hours. When you saw that 61, you did exactly the right thing and fed him to try and stop his numbers from dropping lower.

Can you test him again to see if that has happened?

Carl
 
Re: Update - dose too high or just right?? Prozinc

Hi!
So after the 61 at +4 and feeding, retested at +4.5 and got 69. Then retested at +5 and got 59, so i gave him a half teaspoon of gravy can to maintain. He's still feeling fine. As long as he doesn't show any low signs, I plan to retest at +6.

I think that now that he's adjusted to the 3 units - it looks like too high a dose? Gotta work the next two days, and he'll need to readjust again to a lower dose. I'm thinking go down to 2 units to be super safe? Or would it be better to just reduce by 0.5 to 2.5? Looking at his numbers now, it seems like his high preshots may be because he's going low too fast on the 3 units, but managing to stay outta hypo territory.... (my super-resilient boy - he's so forgiving of my blundering confused_cat )

What do you think?
 
Re: Update - dose too high or just right?? Prozinc

Cat,
I think that the food has been buffering him from going low. That's okay as long as he eats like a good boy and cleans his plate. What I'm worried about is that for whatever reasons (like yesterday when he only ate 2 out of 4 meals), that he'll skip eating and you won't be around to convince him to eat. If the food is what is making it look like 3u is the "right dose", then it probably isn't the "right dose" if that makes any sense. Because the food, if you not there to see if he eats or not, becomes a variable instead of a constant.

I think reducing to 2u if he won't be supervised the next couple of days is the safe thing to do. You can even do unequal doses day and night if needed, giving more only on the cycles where you can at least get a spot check during the first 4-5 hours of the cycles.

Carl
 
Re: Update - dose too high or just right?? Prozinc

I like the 2 units also when you won't be able to monitor. If he is in higher numbers between now and the weekend on that dose, you could raise it to 2.5 when you will be around.

I would be sure to leave out food (you can freeze it and let it thaw while he snacks).

For the future, until you have more data, we would urge you not to shoot under 200 but to retest without feeding (cause food raises glucose levels) in 20 minutes. Not only do you want a number higher to shoot, but you want to be sure the number is rising.
 
Re: Update - dose too high or just right?? Prozinc

Thank you both so much!

BG is 77 at +6, and its a meal time, so I think we'll be good tonight. I'll sleep on the couch and check on him time to time (gotta get up in 4 hrs anyway lol). He hasnt made a fuss about the bg testing at all in the past - but tonight hes had enough of it so i'll only test if he seems funny.

I don't think Bart would do well with food left out all day unless maybe it was a five gallon bucket full - he's an eater and if i leave too much out he'll eat it all at once and not have any later. I currently use an autofeeder and feed him every 3 hrs. He never turns food down, which makes those couple of missed meals weird - have no idea what the deal was with that. I would like to feed him every 2 hrs, but since I'm gone for 12 hrs - then i could not have the feeder move to an empty chamber 2 hrs before a pre-shot test to make it fasting, and i know that's important. The best i could do is have the feeder move to the first chamber from the +2 feeding and hope that it was all gone.

Do you think it's better to ensure fasting pre-shot tests OR better to feed every 2 hrs instead of every 3 hrs?

Thanks again for all your help since i've come onboard, both of you. I'm going to drop Bart to 2 units tomorrow morning, ONLY if his preshot test comes out above 200. And, I've got to commit to keeping him on that dose for long enough too. Then, with your input, we'll look at changing the dose using the U100's in tinier increments. Patience is not one of my strong suits, I'm afraid, but I can do it for Bart. I'll come back around this weekend with data updates - barring any urgent issues before then!

Your help and support means so much - Bart and I can't thank you enough,
Cat
 
Re: Update - dose too high or just right?? Prozinc

Hi Cat (love your name...obviously),

It looks like the 3u is too much insulin. Since you have the u100 syringes, you'll be able to move in 0.2u increments (or 0.1u if need be) very easily by using the conversion chart. At the very least, I would decrease Bart to 2.8u, only if you will be around to monitor frequently during each 12 hour cycle. As long as you'll be around to monitor, you won't "miss his dose" on the way down the dosing ladder (which is the direction you want to go :-D ). If you can't be around to monitor, it might be a better idea to drop to 2u, and work your way back up if needed. If you do decide to decrease to 2u, however, please make sure you are testing for ketones.

Deb

I always do this...I walked away from this post, and now it's 1.5 hours later, and what I've written is outdated. ohmygod_smile
bartcat said:
Do you think it's better to ensure fasting pre-shot tests OR better to feed every 2 hrs instead of every 3 hrs?
Click to expand...
You always want to ensure a "fasting pre-shot". They cannot have any food onboard for at least 2 hours before a pre-shot BG reading.
 
Re: Bart Update +6 bg = 77 (Prozinc)

It's nice he stayed in safe numbers last night. Hope you decided to reduce the dose today, especially if you can't be around.

Didn't realize you had an automatic feeder. Just setting that so it feeds him a couple times during the day should be fine.
 
Re: Bart Update +6 bg = 77 (Prozinc)

Hi Guys,
Thanbks for all the great feedback. I did go down to 2 units. Then after seing how he did and reviewing the spreadsheet I adjusted his dose and he's now on 2.4 units and showing some really nice numbers! - though it's early yet. I plan to keep him on the 2.4 units for awhile based on both his numbers and his feeling so much better than on the 2 units. His pu/pd went away so far on the 2.4 and he's brighter and happier.

But, I know he's gotta settle in..... and I can be here pretty much around for the next 2 days just fine (just a few errands to run here and there but no full 12 hr work shifts till tuesday :smile: )

I guess now it's just a waiting game till we can see a clear pattern as to whether his dose needs adjustment? If he can just cruise along at this point??... I keep telling my self PATIENCE PATIENCE

In the meantime, I've updated his spreadsheet - when you have some spare time could your experienced eyes let me know if I'm thinking/interpreting the numbers right?? What kinda numbers should i see settle in if his current dose is the right one? what might the numbers do to indicate that he needs a little more or a little less? I'm just trying to Keep Ahead of the Curve :lol: !

Hope you guys are having an awesome weekend - you all definitely are due some good karma payback and I'm wishing it for you,
Thanks!
Cat
 
Re: Bart Update +6 bg = 77 (Prozinc)



Bart says Hi and Thank You!!
 

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PMPS 118 - how much to shoot???

OK,
So, kinda like he's done before, PMPS is 118.
I want to shoot him, because every time hes done this and i skip or give a reduced dose he catapults up - i dont want to undo the progress we've made.

What would you do based on his previous reactions/numbers - cant we keep shot the same and see if we can sustain the good trend??? I WILL be home all night.....
Or do I shoot a little less? Like what dose or percentage?
What now? :?
Thanks, Cat
 
Re: Bart 8/4 PMPS 118 what dosage now??

You definitely can't keep the dose the same. 2.4 dropped him 330 points today.
He most likely will bounce from that green low today. This kind of reminds me of the cycle on the 22nd, only today's numbers are even lower. I can't explain why the .5u dose that night seemed to do little to nothing, but at the same time, I wouldn't count on the same thing happening again.

118 is a really low number to give insulin on. It looks like his number is rising, but not really much. I know you don't want to skip. What I think I would do is wait without feeding, until you see a 200, and then shoot maybe 1u?

Hoping someone else is on to see this...

Carl
 
Re: Bart 8/4 PMPS 118 what dosage now??

Hi Carl,
I did go ahead and feed him but haven't shot. I read somewhere here the process of feed and retest in an hour? I'm 30 min away from that one hr mark.... I know it'll need to be a lower dose probably but thought it should be based on next test?

His numbers might have been a little low today because he skipped his mid morning meal and (probably) didnt eat much at breakfast - it was a flavor he apparently doesnt really like. I gave him one I know he likes at lunch and thereafter and he ate just fine.

He's been getting insulin for 8 years and maybe his body is expecting it and that's why he goes so high on a skipped shot? Just a thought...

When i had previously droppe him down to 2.0 units, he was high and he felt pretty bad (lots of pu/pd). He seemed to do better around 2.5 previously, which is why i put him on 2.4. I do have the U100's now.

Dont worry, I'll post his test at one hr and wait to get input here before deciding or shooting anything.
Thanks, Cat
 
Re: Bart 8/4 PMPS 118 what dosage now??

Cat,
What we normally suggest is to wait without feeding to see if the number comes up on its own. The food will raise the numbers within an hour, so the test you get should be higher due to food. It could also be higher due to a bounce from the green numbers, and because it would be rising anyway since it's been 12 hours since the last shot.
So you won't really know "what exactly" caused the higher BG.

But, let's see what Bart gives you on that test, and go from there.

Carl
 
Re: Bart 8/4 PMPS 118 what dosage now??

Bart at 1 hr post feed - no shot yet = 188
?
My thoughts: I know ECID, and after 8 yearsof no serious hypos with (dry food) shooting high (6u) dose blind (except clinicals and my intuition) - my gut says I don't want to go too low from the 2.4 that is giving him such good numbers that he is responding to by feeling good now.... and I will be here all night
I'm thinking shoot at least 1 u?
Thoughts? :?:
 
Re: Update Bart at 188

I don't think 1u would be a problem.

Carl
 
Re: Update Bart at 188

Thanks Carl,
OK he's had 1 u and eats again in 1.5 hrs, so i dont expect any problems.
I'll be watching my boy close tonight to be sure.
If there's anything too funny or fast, I'll consult here
In the meantime, if/when you check back, consider no news good news!

So, those numbers earlier today and before that were green would cause a bounce? Hmmm, they were in normal range and always higher than my civie runs (60) and Bart was a happy kitty today..... I guess as we go on I'll learn Bart's response patterns I Hope!

Thanks again Carl and Bob!
Bart and Cat
 
Re: Update Bart at 188

Yes Cat, even though they weren't "hypo" low, they were low enough to cause a bounce.

If he goes from 400 to below 100, that's most likely going to cause a bounce. If you look at his cycle on the AM of the 2nd. He had a yellow preshot number, and dropped to green. Not a huge drop. But 2.0 was sufficient to drop him 170 points. At the end of the cycle, one of 2 things happened. Either it just wasn't enough insulin to last 12 hours (or even 9 hours), or he bounced. I'm inclined to go with "bounce" as the reason.
Today, that 2.4u dose sure did last a lot longer than 12 hours. He started in the reds, and dropped all the way down to greens and stayed there a while. And it dropped him over 300 points. I'm guessing he'll show "bouncy numbers" sometime in the next cycle or two.

With Prozinc, what we usually hope for is a drop of 50%-70%. That seems to get enough of a drop to help without causing too much drop that usually causes bouncing. No matter what the numbers are, I try to look at the percentage of drop and not just the numbers themselves, if that makes any sense.

Carl
 
Re: Update Bart at 188

Ahh, ok that makes it a little clearer - thanks Carl!
Ss updated and Bart is bouncing i think. You know i never tried zero dose for any amount of time, is that something i should do? And if yes for how long?

Also i am moving over to pzi forum as it seemed time to and you and sue are over there.... Good idea ?
Thanks, cat
 
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