back to back active, new dose drop, +2 86, +4 77

Status
Not open for further replies.
Melinda and Kitkat

Melinda and Kitkat

Member Since 2022
previous thread https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-just-private-messaged-to-me-just-now.271532/
Good morning all.
I have updated Kitkats spreadsheet. His PMPS was 140 (7.8) and I gave him his new dose of 2 units.
This morning his AMPS is 115 (6.4).
Stalling, this may have been food influenced because he was finishing the last of his bedtime meal this morning when I woke. (its usually empty and he normally jumps up on the bed and wakes us up about 1/2 hr before his preshot time). He did not wake us up and it may be because he had saved some for this morning. It took a few attempts to get his amps so at least 20 minutes has passed since we saw him eating. Any thoughts?
 
It usually takes 20-30 minutes for carbs to hit the bloodstream. Was he just snacking on LC food? You could get a test now and see where he is at. A midcycle test last night would have been interesting. This would be the lowest preshot, are you able to monitor and intervene with higher carbs if necessary? If you do shoot, get a +1 and +2 to start. I can stay with you and help if you need it. What would you like to do?

ETA - sorry, I think I was late getting to you, just seeing this and your time posting looks to be over an hour ago?
 
Hi Christie, I did withhold his dose this morning, its much too late to give one now right? It's +3 right now, Am I correct to continue with Vet advice to withhold at 110 or lower (6)? It was Purina DM kibble (we do set out 1/8 cup at bedtime, or we will get no sleep,lol). I do realise this is high carb, and he's getting more and more accustomed to just wet. 4 wet meals a day now,
I am weening him off the dry completely, as you all say, slower transition is best. He gets that 1/8 cup at bedtime. We can definitely do a +2 PMPS tonight.
 
Hi again Melinda, sorry I didn’t get to you in time :(. I forgot that you also have some vet instructions in the mix. It would be hard to adjust dosing times after three hours, but it’s nice to see you managed 2u last night (yay!) and looked like a good start this morning. I think it might be worth starting to post over on the Lantus Levemir and Biosimilars Insulin support group perhaps tomorrow, we usually send you over there once the basics on testing, feeding questions, signature and SS set up is completed. Plus there are more eyes there too, with members who have experience with the depot insulins.

With SLGS what we would say is no shoot if BG is under 90. For new members who are just gathering data, and are posting on the Lantus Levemir and Biosimilar ISG we would usually suggest not shooting under 150 until you have a sense of how the insulin and carbs you feed are influencing your cat, which requires trying to test at various times in the cycle so you can determine where your cat onsets, nadirs, and how much duration they are getting. There are some general guidelines on what to do with lower than normal preshot numbers and following SLGS in this sticky https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/

You did shoot 140 last night which is great! That’s why I’d have liked to have seen a little data afterward, just so we can start to figure out KitKat’s onset, nadirs and duration.
  • Onset - the length of time before insulin reaches the bloodstream & begins lowering blood glucose
  • Peak/Nadir - the lowest point in the cycle
  • Duration - the length of time insulin continues to lower blood glucose
At the moment, we’re seeing a lot of white spaces in the SS so getting data at different times and different days, helps fill in the missing pieces of the overall picture. Let’s see how we go tonight. With another skip you could shoot at a time where you could possibly get a few tests in tonight? Unless you are kind of set on an am/pm shot cycle already that works for you and your schedule. I always liked trying to catch at least +2 followed by a before bed test when Maverick was on Lantus, since I found the +2 was generally a good indicator of whether I needed to test again. If you see the same number at +2 or lower, it often suggests an active cycle, where you would want to catch another test to see how the cycle is going. If it is higher than preshot, that will usually suggest further testing isn’t necessary, but every cat is different. That’s why a little more data will help us figure out KitKat’s patterns :)
 
No sorry needed Christie,:bighug: i am just so happy to have you all here. I'm sorry a test didn't happen last night !
We will post his PMPS , and will take a +2 PMPS test tonight and post. If it turns into a late night, so be it. Its all good.
Understood about onset/nadir and duration. We do want to do a full curve to get this info, and can do this soon. He has yet to get one. Hope it won't be too much torture, but we know this is very vital information. ( a day of cranky cat is small price to pay). We needn't take him in to have the vet do it,,, not now that we are fairly confident we can do this ourselves. We are home most days so testing throughout the day is just fine for us.
As a side note my husband Matt is the BG tester (he's got knack for it) and I am the doser. So the full curve testing will fall on him, for sure. He reminds regularly that his name is not "we" :facepalm: haha Between the two of us, things are going well. Me and we are getting there :)
 
Last edited:
Hi Bron, And a Hi from Matt as well Cheers. we'll get the +2 for sure,,, quick question, Kitkat tends to nibble his meals slow, several trips to the dish to eat a meal, Is this a problem for the +2? I am asuming its not,, I do withhold food for the 2 hrs for PS checks.
 
Melinda and Kitkat said:
Hi Bron, And a Hi from Matt as well Cheers. we'll get the +2 for sure,,, quick question, Kitkat tends to nibble his meals slow, several trips to the dish to eat a meal, Is this a problem for the +2? I am asuming its not,, I do withhold food for the 2 hrs for PS checks.
Click to expand...
Except for the 2 hours withholding food for the preshot BG, there is no need to withhold food. So let Kitkat nibble away and test when needed. Such a beautiful boy!
 
ok thanks. i thought so and was pretty sure I read about that but still second guess myself a bit. Cheers.
And Bron, and to all others here, I just learned today in my reading what the GA is for. I am so sorry and My heart breaks a bit when I see this now. Such beautiful kitties and loving parents here. A Guardian Angel, such a touching tribute for all the purrs, love and cuddles and friendship.
 
Kitkats +2 Pmps is 122. We can get more data points now, and can very well do a full curve throughout the day when you think it is appropriate. A few more days on the new 2 unit dose maybe? As you say a depot is needed. We will keep posting his numbers:D
 
Melinda and Kitkat said:
Kitkats +2 Pmps is 122. We can get more data points now, and can very well do a full curve throughout the day when you think it is appropriate. A few more days on the new 2 unit dose maybe? As you say a depot is needed. We will keep posting his numbers:D
Click to expand...

With the +2 at 122 that is telling you that this will most likely be an active cycle meaning Kitkat will most likely drop lower (into the greens). I would recommend you get a +4 and if needed another after that to make sure he is safe. This is great data! I will watch for updates.

If he drops under 90, he will have earned a reduction in dose. This is why it is so important to get those midcycle tests.
 
Well..... I just did 3 attempts as Matt is not well and off to bed (he is the BG tester). Not enough blood for a successful test :(. He wont let me near his ear now and i am afraid i really ruined it for the night. I would have so loved to get this info for us and for you as the one who is looking out for us. Knowing Kitkat I dont any think more attempts will be successful. I will try again if you feel its truly needed tonight.
If we can let him be for the night, considering he just dropped from 4 to 2 units yesterday?
I really dont wanna come across like i dont care, its now 2am here, and if its in any way possible i would like to wait , we (as in matt)can do a full curve during the am hours to fill in some of the blanks and continue to do the +2 pm at several times over the next few days. Please will this be ok?
 
Melinda and Kitkat said:
Well..... I just did 3 attempts as Matt is not well and off to bed (he is the BG tester). Not enough blood for a successful test :(. He wont let me near his ear now and i am afraid i really ruined it for the night. I would have so loved to get this info for us and for you as the one who is looking out for us. Knowing Kitkat I dont any think more attempts will be successful. I will try again if you feel its truly needed tonight.
If we can let him be for the night, considering he just dropped from 4 to 2 units yesterday?
I really dont wanna come across like i dont care, its now 2am here, and if its in any way possible i would like to wait , we (as in matt)can do a full curve during the am hours to fill in some of the blanks and continue to do the +2 pm at several times over the next few days. Please will this be ok?
Click to expand...
If you can’t get a test, I would leave some food out for him and make sure he eats some now as well. It’s a shame but these things happen.
I hope Matt is better tomorrow….we need you Matt!
 
Sigh of relief, thanks Bron. I have put out a bit more of wet (which he's very taken to now) and the 1/8 cup of kibble, baby steps. more testing will come, thankyou and have a great night.
 
Day 3 for his new 2 unit dose (not the 4 or previous 5). Spreadsheet updated and we got a successful +4. (AMPS 142, +4 119). Internet is really glitchy today (fyi). Will post this right now while its working good.
 
AMPS 103, withholding dose, he has had 2 1/2 days of 2 units. His numbers are definitely levelling out and are much more consistent. This morning I am hesitant to give him a dose. Cant figure out how to adjust thread title to add question mark
 
I figured out how to change the title and add the ? Also, I just realized that i still had Dec12 in the thread title for my last few posts. ,,,, I am really liking these results,and he's been green for abit now,,, we got +4 (101) and hes been eating fairly close to normal (a bit less than usual). We might be jumping the gun by doing a full curve after only 3 days on his new dose, but I'm sure it's very helpful info. Matt is keen to continue to test every 2 hrs and until PMPS. We (he) will keep at it and we hope some advice from yall comes back that he has earned a wonderful reduction. We will continue as we are, hoping Christie, Bron, Diane Tyler's mom, Sienne logs in. You guys have been so wonderful and we (as in Matt and I, lol) wouldn't be anywhere near this point without you. And to Red for the recommendation of Purebits and Orijen.
 
Sorry no one got to you sooner. Sounds like Matt is better!
With the drop to 88 KitKat has earned another reduction in dose down to 1.75 units. Start the new dose at the next Preshot providing he is high enough to shoot.
I think he is on a bit of a mission to get to the bottom!
Keep posting and I will try and keep looking in on you
Bron
 
ok, his +6 (88- 4.9) and he has been nibbling today all day and treats as well. He had NO dose this AM, i withheld. But, it is still dropping and i am trying not to be neurotic and scared, I know he's not near hypo and still good, however this is the first time he has continually dropped. Matt will check again now in 1 hr, I still get really nervous when he is below the 6 (108) as recommended by Vet. I also know with all this... new dosage, being new and learning and such, you guys recommend a hold at 8(150 or less). I like your numbers better but have been following the 6 reluctantly, just to keep his depot up, be Lantus 12 hr compliant and try to get these needed 2 shots per day..
Still holding at 6 now (my bad i held at even 6.3 a few days ago as that was too close for comfort for me to the 6 hold).
 
He is still in very safe numbers and you are in control because you are testing the BG. You can control any drop with food… low carb, higher carb or honey… depending what the BG is. So try not to be scared.
There are a lot of CGs who would love to be in your position!

KitKat is telling you he needs less insulin. Just keep following the SLGS method and reduce when he drops under 90. Some cats take a long time to get to this point and others get there quickly.
Keep testing and giving him plenty of food.
Remember it is the green BGs that are the healing numbers. The more he can stay in those numbers the better it is for his pancreas.
Once you have some data you can start to shoot lower Preshots as long as you can test during that cycle. You can lower the Preshot to 126 now as you have shot that Preshot.
If ever in doubt post and ask for help but make sure you change the subject line to reflect you need help. Bron
 
Matt is better, thankyou, and has been testing him all day today. so nice to hear back fron you, as I am still a bit beside myself about all this,,, cant help from being all mama bear about it. Matt has been my rock, he was the first to agree to do the home testing and willing to jab Kitkat to do it( i have been terrified to do it) , I have been so nervous about it,and have yet to get a successful test from Kitkat, so all info on our spreadsheet is because of Matt. I dose, Matt checks BGs. Im a lucky girl to have him. I research, learn up on things, post and Matt does the tests we need, . He prefers to just do as needed, not wanting to know all the science, the reason, the implications and complications of it all. He feels that he will do as needed, and it's easier to stay out of the loop, stay calm and test whenever needed, Kitkat has responded to this calm, and its been such a good thing,
I check here, reseach, learn and give shots.
So happy Kitkat has earned that reduction Bron , over the moon right now, will give the reduction tonight (as you say, provided he is high enough to shoot),. Am I safe and ok to keep it at 6?
 
my relief is over the moon, i have seen others here go through such a hard time and scary numbers. I count myself so incredibly lucky and wont take this lightly, truly. About to do +8. Thanks Bron
 
Matt is a keeper!
At this point if he is under 120 (6.6) I would stall, don’t feed and test in 20 minutes. We don’t know how low he went last night with the 126 Preshot.
let me know how many hours from now the PMPS is and I will watch out for it.
 
set out low carb wet a good while ago and a smidge of DM dry, he hasnt eaten much of either, ate a bit of wet, none of dry, (im happy he is now preferring the wet), hes been off to our basement and a chair he likes for last hour, not usual for him as he tends to stay with us,but not overly concerning,,,he does that at times. 5 mins for his +10...
 
Melinda and Kitkat said:
set out low carb wet a good while ago and a smidge of DM dry, he hasnt eaten much of either, ate a bit of wet, none of dry, (im happy he is now preferring the wet), hes been off to our basement and a chair he likes for last hour, not usual for him as he tends to stay with us,but not overly concerning,,,he does that at times. 5 mins for his +10...
Click to expand...
I see 130 @+10…he’s coming up nicely now. Don’t forget to take the food up for the last two hours.
 
PMPS 148, just saw you new post Bron, I am up for 1.5 if you feel it safe, just tested, havent fed or shot, thanks for your great timing my friend. will stall .
 
thankyou so much Bron,
no am shot, tonights PmPs 148, giving 1 5 dose tonight, I will try for the +2 tonight with all I got, Matt is stuffed for the day from doing the full curve today and is now off to bed for the night , us peeps may very well not be as tough as our kitties,will post as I go. Maybe success for me this time. For kitkats sake i do hope so.
 
About to shoot him at 1.5. right now.... havent yet for the pm....i may have posted something wrong on the SS,, will look and correct now. as in correct speadsheet and come back, havent done a pm dose yet, so sorry I have caused confusion. one minute please,
 
So sorry, i did post 2 , i am now about 20 minutes past regular dose time, and havent dosed. too late? or still ok to go to keephim on track? so sorry to put this on you, youre my best option
 
I can give him a token dose for tonight as your literature suggests if its more appropriate now, or skip and try to check him at +2 again,
 
Sorry I’m just seeing this as I thought you were all sorted.
How late are you now? Does it matter tomorrow if you are off schedule.? You can go back 15 minutes a cycle at get back on track
 
hi bron, yeah i messed it up, posted wrong info in ss, and corrected it too late, i am now 1 hr 15 min past regular dose time, i can adjust if Kitkat can safely do so, My schedule is open during the day, we picked 9 am amd 9 pm knowing it was the long haul,,, its slowly been adjusted to 9:30 and 9:30, which seems to work good for us, and Kitkat seems to bug us in bed about 9:15 am daily,,, we can adjust, we are both semi retired, and Kitkat has barely worked a day in his life . lol
 
Melinda and Kitkat said:
hi bron, yeah i messed it up, posted wrong info in ss, and corrected it too late, i am now 1 hr 15 min past regular dose time, i can adjust if Kitkat can safely do so, My schedule is open during the day, we picked 9 am amd 9 pm knowing it was the long haul,,, its slowly been adjusted to 9:30 and 9:30, which seems to work good for us, and Kitkat seems to bug us in bed about 9:15 am daily,,, we can adjust, we are both semi retired, and Kitkat has barely worked a day in his life . lol
Click to expand...
Ok, if you can manage it, then I would give the dose now. If you are not able to monitor the whole cycle, then maybe give 1 unit and go back to 1.5 tomorrow if high enough. We really want to stay with the same dose but it’s a bit hard with this boy as he has other plans.
So tomorrow you will shot 12 hours after tonight dose minus 15 minutes.
Try and get at least a +2 though.
Get a test now and that will be the PmPS BG
 
Help. I need a new adjusted plan, the blood on my hands and arm, Kitkats crazy eyes, claws and now twitchy tail, So far i still cannot get a good sample from his ear. I can dose him anytime anywhere with the insulin and he and i are calm as cucumbers,,,, but i have yet to master the BG tests.(Matt is the master for this) i still stress and he obviously picks up on it. 3 tries again tonight i need to stop,,,, i WILL try again, but just cannot tonight. So with no adjusted PMPS, no dose, I am afraid Kitkat and I are back at square one. Tried again (despite my trepidation with no success) and now over 2 hrs after his shot. Bron thankyou for your advice, i will reread and take it into a plan, for tonight i must stop now, Kitkat's in safe numbers. i will post in the am and will do the reduction to 1.5 Kitkat has earned.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top