Babibear - kidney failure (updated)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lori in Ohio

Lori in Ohio

Active Member
My Babibear just had full blood work done and the vet called yesterday and said he has kidney failure in both kidneys. (He is not diabetic). He is 11 yrs old.
I am taking him in today to flush his kidneys for 3 days and will know after that if he can be saved.

I just had to put his litter mate sister Ginger to sleep in October due to total kidney failure caused by diabetes.

I cannot believe this is happening.
 
Re: Babibear - kidney failure !

is it kidney failure and not just kidney disease? is she in a bad way? there's a big difference obviously between the two and if it's just kidney disease, it's totally treatable and not an immediate death sentence. if the vet is suggesting the 3 day treatment thing i assume she's in bad shape at this point?
 
Re: Babibear - kidney failure !

The vet said his kidney's are at about a 75% failure rate.
But his red and white blood counts are normal, which the vet said is a good thing.

He was eating less and drinking less water and became very constipated.
I gave him muralax for about a week and it was only helping a little.
He has lost some muscle mass and lost about 4 lbs.
He had some itching and psycological mood change symptoms once in awhile.
All of a sudden he wants to lay on the top of the back of this one recliner, which he has never done in the 11 yrs of his life. He will stay there most of the day.

Other than that, he looks fine. He still likes to give us kisses and still sleeps with us.
 
Re: Babibear - kidney failure !

There are some very good online resources for feline CRF...I'm afraid I don't have the links saved but please do a search of this website for CRF and you should get a good start.

Sending hugs

Jen
 
Re: Babibear - kidney failure !

Kidney "failure" and kidney "insufficiency" are vastly two different points on the spectrum of kidney "disease".

I frequently have people come to me for CKD consultations in a complete dither thinking that their cat is in "failure" when their cat is simply in an earlier state of renal insufficiency - or the cat has a *temporary* increase in BUN and creatinine for any number of reasons.

I often see colleagues paint too much of a 'doomy gloomy' picture just based on a set of lab values taken at ONE static point in time and do not check for repeatability. Note the emphasis on "ONE".

My own cat had a creatinine of 3.1 on ONE day...4 years ago. If I would have panicked, it would have been needlessly. He has been in the low 2s since then and is not in renal "failure" as some would have labeled him with a ONE time value of 3.1
 
Re: Babibear - kidney failure !

Dr. Lisa,
His levels are pretty high.
Creatinine was 8.2 (normal ranges .06 - 2.0)
Urea N was 130 (normal ranges 18 - 36)
Phosphorous was 10.9 (normal ranges 2.7 - 7.5)

also high were AST(GOT) - 98 , cholestrol -317.
slightly elevated - Globulin - 5.4

Could Miralax cause these levels to increase?
I have been giving him that daily for about a week.

The doctor said if the flushing improves his levels, we will need to put him on sub-q fluids for the reminder of his life.

I have been reading some about CRF and I am confused about the foods.
The K/D foods seem to be so high in carbs.
He is not diabetic, his glucose was 99, but I also do not want him to become diabetic.
Normally he eats FF low carb classic foods which apparently are high in phosporous.
 
Re: Babibear - kidney failure !

Lori in Ohio said:
I have been reading some about CRF and I am confused about the foods.
The K/D foods seem to be so high in carbs.
He is not diabetic, his glucose was 99, but I also do not want him to become diabetic.
Normally he eats FF low carb classic foods which apparently are high in phosporous.
Click to expand...

Witn had both CRF and diabetes. She was diagnosed with CRF several years before the diabetes diagnosis. When she became a diabetic, I switched her to the Friskies Special Diet canned foods. I feed her all of the flavors except the Chicken & Gravy because of the carbs. During the several years she was fed this, both her BG levels and kidney values remained stable.
 
Re: Babibear - kidney failure !

Did your cat get into anything poisonous? Plants? Any recent medications? Indoor/outdoor cat?

Those are high values. My Latte had Acute Renal Failure due to metacam. Her creatinine was in the 10's. It required A LOT of treatment and attention, but over time we were able to bring her creatinine into a range around 2-3. She lived another 3.5yrs. She was on subq fluids for the remainder of her life, but she also ended up having other issues - ibd/lymphoma, pancreatitis... In the end, though her kidneys were getting worse, it was not the renal issues that caused me to lose Latte.

If this is in fact, Acute Renal Failure, do know that some cats can fully recover (no permanent damage).

Im very glad you got him to the vet and they started tx immediately.
How are electrolytes (postassium, sodium, calcium, etc)?

Yahoo has a great group, which may be helpful with many of your questions:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/tanyas-crf-support/?yguid=6606790

Also, for information/Reference:
http://www.felinecrf.org/

Im sorry you two are going through this. I dont want to give false hope, but I did want to share our story to let you know that with prompt, aggressive tx cats with ARF CAN survive and live a very good life whether there is risidual/permanent damage, or not.
 
Re: Babibear - kidney failure !

Carolyn and Latte:
I do not think he got into anything poisonous. We have no houseplants.
He is an indoor only cat.
The only medication has been Miralax for his constipation and Pepcid A/C a couple of times.

Those electrolytes seem ok. The Sodium of 146 is at the lowest normal level.
Here are his full labs:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... y=CPD7pbwM

Lisa and Witn (GA): Thank you for the mention of the foods you used.
 
Re: Babibear - kidney failure !

Lori in Ohio said:
Dr. Lisa,
His levels are pretty high.
Click to expand...

You are right - those are high. It is good that your vet called to get your boy in quickly.

Miralax is considered to be safe and many cats take it so I highly doubt that Miralax has anything to do with the lab values.
 
Re: Babibear - kidney failure !

Dr. Lisa,
My vet didnt think so either about the Miralax.
Thank you for letting me know your opinion on that.
 
Re: Babibear - kidney failure !

With the high phosphorous levels a low phosphorous diet is a must and phosphorous binder also may be necessary. The KD food is moderate protein (and thus relatively high carb) but is low in phosphorous.
 
Re: Babibear - kidney failure !

Larry and Kitties said:
The KD food is moderate protein
Click to expand...

Actually, the k/d is very low in protein and often results in muscle wasting with a resulting increase in Creatinine since internal muscle breakdown is where creatinine comes from.

I have often seen cats have black crepe paper hung over them far too soon with these very low protein diets. IF a cat is consuming enough of the diet, there should be no problem with protein malnourishment but the minute the appetite drops off, we need to move to a higher protein diet.

I find it frustrating that my colleagues do not 'get' the fact that overall ingested GRAMS of protein is what is important and to offer the patients a diet that has a higher percentage of protein when their appetite drops off.

It is just all basic math....and I continue to get very frustrated with the mantra (from my colleagues) to stick with the Rx - low protein - diets no matter what. This just makes NO sense and it is frustrating to watch cats muscle-waste on these diets.
 
Re: Babibear - kidney failure !

We went to the hospital to see Babibear today. He was very happy to see us, as we were to see him.
He looks fine.(He doesn't even look sick)
He is eating the Precription K/D fine too.
I had decided to forget about the Friskies and go with the Prescription K/D.

But now I am concered now of the last posting of Dr. Lisa.
So... Dr. Lisa what food do you suggest?
 
Re: Babibear - kidney failure !

Lori in Ohio said:
But now I am concered now of the last posting of Dr. Lisa.
So... Dr. Lisa what food do you suggest?
Click to expand...

Hi Lori,

I hope that you can understand that it would be very unethical of me to offer advice for specific patients without a full review of the medical records. CKD is the most common subject that I consult on but only after reviewing the records - and then it involves a two-way discussion via the phone. (My CKD consultations take up ~2 hours of phone time....it is not a 'quick and easy' subject to cover but I can tell you that I do not use or advocate the use of k/d.)
 
Re: Babibear - kidney failure !

Im really glad to hear you got to visit Babibear, AND that he is looking good. Have his renal values come down at all?

When Latte was in / out of the hospital she wouldnt eat. I brought her buffets of anything and everything. The best of the best and the worst of the worst. It was most important for her to just eat something! Can you believe this was all during the time of the big food recall, too. :shock: I was so focused on her, I didnt even know about it. Who knows if I fed her any of that stuff, making matters worse. UG.

Have you had any time to look at the link I gave for Tanya's crf site, and sign up for the group? I think it would be really helpful.

Is babibear eating the k/d kibble or wet??? Most turn their noses up to the wet, but will eat the kibble at least for a while. Of course you know wet food really is the best way to go. If phosphorus stays high, you will be able to add a tasteless/odorless powdered phosphorus binder to any food. This is really helpful and allows one to free up the 'diet' to something that may be more appropriate. In our case, Latte's phosphorus went down when all other numbers went down. I only had to use the binder for short spurts, here/there, under recommendation of her IM vet.

It sounds like Babibear is in the right place, under good care. Please do keep us updated.
 
Re: Babibear - kidney failure !

Carolyn,
We went to visit him again today. He looks good and gave us lots of kisses. :-D

Thanks for those links. I have saved them both in my favorites.
He has been eating the Prescription K/D wet at the hospital. They said last night for dinner, he didnt eat much of it, but by morning he had finished it all.
I was pretty surprised he would eat the food so easily, because he is very picky of which canned foods he likes. For instance, he will not eat Merrick, Wellness or IVO 95% .
I have had him on wet food for about a year, after reading here how bad the dry food is for cats.
He had been eating mostly FF Classics.

They will be doing blood work on Monday to see if the values have changed or not.
 
Babibear did good while in the hospital while flushing his kidneys eating both the wet and dry K/D.
They re-did part of the blood work, but the results were not much of an improvement.
I will be getting a copy of the full results on Thursday, but the following results I do have:

Urea N (before - 130) Now-108 (Dr. hoped for 65) (normal 18-36)
Creatinine (before- 8.2) Now- 6.6 (Dr. hoped for 4.0) (normal 0.6-2.0)
Phosphorous (before 10.9) Now- 6.7 (good) (normal 2.7-7.5)

He will be put on Sub-q fluids 3x a week for now. We will learn how on Thursday.
Since bringing him home today he has not eaten any K/D wet, so I gave him the dry and he ate that well.
I even tried crushing the dry and sprinkling on the wet, but it didnt help.

My other cat, Lucky that is very thin (7#) and cannot gain weight even though he normally eats alot has extremly deteriorated in the last 48 hours.
I had taken him to a different vet 2 months ago, which told me his blood work was fine and in normal ranges.
She had me put him on high calorie food.
I went to get a copy of his blood work results today, since he is doing so much worse now.
He is actually borderline for Kidney Disease, which the vet never told me about.
He is very weak, his sides are sunken in and doesnt want to eat his food.
He did eat some of the K/D dry and a little cooked chicken breast today.
I will be taking him into Babibears vet this week, but I think they will tell me its time to let him go.
 
It sounds like you're doing all the right things. My Nemo is on 3x a week fluids as well for CRF, and he's doing well on the low-phosphorous food like Wellness and Friskies Special Diet. Hang in there!
 
WCF, no but We have an appt on Thursday.

In that link it said "if the cat's phosphorus multiplied by calcium is higher than 70 (US) or 5 (international), the cat is at risk of tissue calcification.

Babibears 2/7/11 phosphorus x 2/3/11 calcium = 69.68 (its under 70)
I will have his full 2/7/11 test results on Thursday.
 
Phosphorous (before 10.9) Now- 6.7 (good) (normal 2.7-7.5)
Click to expand...

As Meowzi's mom said, that phos is too high.

Unfortunately, the labs will not get their act together and re-write their erroneous "normals". 7.5 is not 'normal'. We really like to see the phos well below 6.

But on a very good note....6.7 is much better than 10.9!
 
I did notice that different labs have different normal ranges - totally confusing.

Lucky has been eating the K/D wet food really good since last night - maybe I do not have to give up on him yet. He seems a tiny bit better.

Babibear will not eat it. He has been eating the K/D dry though.
They are both going to see the vet tomorrow.
 
Lori, it would be good if you can pick up the full labs from not just 2/7/11, but also from 2/3/11. If you post to one of the Yahoo CRF groups - Carolyn/Latte gave you the link for Helen's group, it's a good one - you can post the labs for input. Or, if you consult with Dr Lisa, she'll want to review the labs as well.

PS - ask if a urine specific gravity (USG) was done when he first went in, and what the reading was.
 
WCF,
I will ask the vet today during our visit for copies of all Babibears tests.
His Kidney values from the blood work are real bad, but he is not really acting or looking sick so its pretty strange.

I only took him to the vet because he was constipated at that time.
I will check out Helen's group soon.
I will not be consulting with Dr. Lisa at this time, just my own vet for now.
Finances are an issue right now since I am unemployed, so I can only afford so much at once.

I also just got back from the emergency room visiting my step-father that was rushed there by ambulance this morning, so things are kind of hectic here.
 
oh dear. i hope your step-father is going to be alright.

Lori in Ohio said:
WCF,
I will ask the vet today during our visit for copies of all Babibears tests.
His Kidney values from the blood work are real bad, but he is not really acting or looking sick so its pretty strange.

I only took him to the vet because he was constipated at that time.
Click to expand...
that does sound pretty strange. would be good to see a USG. i'm wondering if its hereditary, since his littermate did succumb to kidney failure too. but still doesn't explain why he's not feeling sick with those levels. btw, did the vet rule out stones or other obstructions? http://www.felinecrf.org/causes_of_crf. ... structions (i'm grasping at straws here - get the full labs and post that and his history on the Yahoo group, they may be able to offer some insight).

our consult with Dr Lisa was well worth every penny (and more!), but i do understand about finances. i'm sorry about your employment situation. i do encourage you to check with the Yahoo CRF groups - the folks there are very experienced, and should be able to offer you some guidance.

speaking of finances - how are you obtaining your supplies - SQ fluids, lines, needles, phos binder, etc? they're usually more expensive to get them directly from the vet; if you can get your vet to write the scripts needed (for fluids, lines - and needles depending on your state of residence), there are much more affordable online sources. you won't need a script for the phos binder if you use aluminium hydroxide.
 
WCF,
With all that was going on at the vets yesterday, learning how to give the sub-q fluids to Babibear, plus Lucky's exam, I forgot to get the copy of Babibears full labs.
I am going back today to pick up Lucky's labs, so will get Babibear's too.

They did not give Babibear a urinalysis. Why would that be necessary seeing how bad his blood kidney values are? The doctor also said his protein values have increased which suspects cancer or some infection that would cause the kidney disease. He said either way, we would treat him with sub-q fluids. There would be no other treatment at this point.

I was right about Lucky. His Kidney values have increased since his December blood work. He is to get Sub-q fluids as well, but less than Babibear.
Lucky went from 7.9 lbs in December, to 6.5 lbs now. He eats alot and is always very hungry, yet he is anemic and keeps losing weight. He use to be a 14 lb cat.

Babibear and Ginger (GA-diabetes and total kidney failure) were from the same litter. We rescued them at 3 days old along with 4 others. Their mother was a feral cat that abandon them because a dog chased her away. It was very cold outside, they were almost dead, in fact they were frozen stiff. We saved all 6 kittens so it was quite the experience. Babibear is 11 now.
But, being that their mother was feral, I have no idea of any hereditary history.

We rescued Lucky when he was about 4 yrs old just before Halloween. He is all Black. He was already neutered and declawed. He is 15 now. So I do not know his Hereditary history either.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top