? Asking advice, opinions, agree/disagree with my conclusions

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CandyH & Catcat

CandyH & Catcat

Member Since 2019
take a look at Catcat's spreadsheet -- I'm beginning to think either I had a fur shot or two, or it might be time to think about increasing his dosage to 1.25 sometime soon

wondering if the stress of me doing the ear-poke and making him stay somewhat still while I grab the meter, (while he struggles and yowls) might be increasing his BG

pretty sure the initial dose of 2 units is too much, when the vet did a curve with her meter, the +4 value was 52 which is WAY too low .. she didn't say anything about measures taken to bring it up at that time, and the +6 was only 87

he is begging for food from the moment he tries to wake us up ( 5 AM !!!) until I finally give in and test him sometime after 7 and give him his post-test treat, since I've had him on an 8 to 8 schedule -- then about an hour after he's eaten (and he eats a whole 5.5 ounce can, leaving nothing but shiny clean bowl and spoon), he's begging for food again, searching madly everywhere to find more, and this goes on until I go for the next ear prick and treat (a scant tablespoon full of low carb wet food) plus sometimes 1/3 of a can of Fancy Feast, then as soon as he finishes, he starts begging again until he gives up, lies down, and naps

I'm thinking to transition him by baby steps to a 6 to 6 schedule, since consensus seems to be that Vetsulin doesn't remain active for the whole 12 hours, though from the vet's curve it was still effective at +8

many empty spots on that spreadsheet, I've had trouble getting enough blood, too much blood, he's gotten away before I could collect, first meter needed .5 ml and kept giving me "not enough" error messages, finally got the last of the Confirm meters and it makes a whale of a lot of difference

happy to get comments of any and all sorts
 
Hi Candy
A couple of comments:
When you are testing the BSL, get completely organised before you get Catcat. Try putting the strip into the meter and see how long you have before it goes off and says error. I found I had plenty of time to put the strip right in the meter, prick the ear and reach for the meter and get the sample before the meter ran out of time. Have the meter close by.
If you can’t keep him still to get the blood onto the strip, scoop the blood onto your fingernail and test from there. It gets easier.
If the 6:6 or 5.30:5.30 time works well for you I would change to that if you are being woken early anyway. Are you usually home during the day? Do you also give a couple of small meals during the day and evening?
Diabetic cats when first diagnosed are usually very hungry. Very normal. Much better than not wanting to eat.
I can’t comment on the dose as I don’t use Vetsulin. Personally I think the longer lasting insulins like Lantus, levemir or Prozinc are much better for cats.
It is still very early days in your FD journey It is great you are doing all you can for Catcat.
 
Right now your cat's body is not processing food properly and that is why he is always hungry. You will need to give him extra food. Once his glucose levels stablize his appetite will return to normal.

Vetsulin is a short acting insulin that wears off after a few hours. Bron mentioned several that cats respond better to. There is one more, BCP PZI. Your vet can order the first vial for free for you from their website https://bcpvetpharm.com/bcp-pzi-bovine-insulin/ At the bottom of the page is the link for the order form.
.
If you switch to Lantus or Levemir, ask the vet for the prescription for the pens instead of the vial. It is more economical since you will be able to use almost every drop.

You are doing a great job caring for him. Learning to home test can be challenging at first but it is the best way to manage your cat's diabetes. There are a lot of ways to help make it easier. In addition to Bron's suggestions, massaging or warming up the ear heels to get the blood flowing to get a better drop.
 
thank you both -- yes I need the feedback --

I had a tiny spoon left over from a sample of Baskin&Robbins ice cream, I found it was easier to scoop the blood onto that, since I have brittle fingernails that tend to rip off before they get to the end of my finger, my one successful fingernail scoop was a rare occasion when thumbnail was slightly longer than that, trying to use a shorter one resulted in the blood mostly under the nail and running sideways, not beaded up

I lay out all the supplies and show Catcat where they are, and where the unopened catfood can is -- testing strip partway into the meter but not far enough to turn it on, even with these less expensive strips, I still hate to waste one, also he doesn't like to have the meter close to him, so scooping blood off works far better, gives me time to take care of all since I don't have three or four arms to do it all at once

usually home during the day, Thursdays I go to the Community Service building for food bank, Friday is the senior center food bank, Saturday a local church has a food bank; other than that, short trips to the stores for needed supplies -- in the past I've participated in the Relay for Life fundraiser, but Catcat is now Priority One

he gets mini-meals (about a quarter of a can of FF or the equivalent) every two hours or so, usually right after I've tried to get a blood draw to test, I'm selecting the variety he seems to like best for that (salmon for sure) -- he's gaining back his lost weight (10# at diagnosis, I found an old email mentioning him as 15# and slender), so I'll be cutting back to "normal" calories when he's approaching that, with luck also by that time we'll have a stable BSL even if not into remission

would love to transition to a longer-acting insulin, will discuss that with vet when we see her in a couple of weeks, she recommended "the cheapest place around", a local compounding pharmacy, and I think she'll be on board with that, but she'd like to see how this trial with Vetsulin works, since she knows I'm on a tight budget

time for me to run downstairs and retrieve insulin from fridge ...
 
CandyH said:
take a look at Catcat's spreadsheet -- I'm beginning to think either I had a fur shot or two, or it might be time to think about increasing his dosage to 1.25 sometime soon

wondering if the stress of me doing the ear-poke and making him stay somewhat still while I grab the meter, (while he struggles and yowls) might be increasing his BG

pretty sure the initial dose of 2 units is too much, when the vet did a curve with her meter, the +4 value was 52 which is WAY too low .. she didn't say anything about measures taken to bring it up at that time, and the +6 was only 87

he is begging for food from the moment he tries to wake us up ( 5 AM !!!) until I finally give in and test him sometime after 7 and give him his post-test treat, since I've had him on an 8 to 8 schedule -- then about an hour after he's eaten (and he eats a whole 5.5 ounce can, leaving nothing but shiny clean bowl and spoon), he's begging for food again, searching madly everywhere to find more, and this goes on until I go for the next ear prick and treat (a scant tablespoon full of low carb wet food) plus sometimes 1/3 of a can of Fancy Feast, then as soon as he finishes, he starts begging again until he gives up, lies down, and naps

I'm thinking to transition him by baby steps to a 6 to 6 schedule, since consensus seems to be that Vetsulin doesn't remain active for the whole 12 hours, though from the vet's curve it was still effective at +8

many empty spots on that spreadsheet, I've had trouble getting enough blood, too much blood, he's gotten away before I could collect, first meter needed .5 ml and kept giving me "not enough" error messages, finally got the last of the Confirm meters and it makes a whale of a lot of difference

happy to get comments of any and all sorts
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These numbers don’t seem bad at all to me. It takes some time for a cat’s body to begin to heal and produce lower numbers, but your numbers aren’t terrible at all. You even got a number in the 100s! It does seem like his diabetes isn’t controlled from your description of symptoms. I would just ask the vet. They did go to vet school!
 
That's a great idea, to scoop the blood onto a little spoon! I frequently scoop it onto my nail, because although Jack is well-behaved for the most part, he gets squirmy once I poke. And I do think that the anxiety of being tested can raise the BG level. I often think that Jack's level gets raised because he's very excited and anticipating the treats he gets afterwards. So I do think this is a problem sometimes. This may sound silly, but you can get all Zen like and try to relax him a little. My cats enjoy when I play relaxing nature sounds or Indian flute music on YouTube. Sometimes when they're all acting crazy, I'll put it on just to chill them out. Maybe you can try that?
 
interesting idea, to use music, have no idea how Catcat might respond to that, will have to try it -- he's becoming more active, more alert, sleeping far less, as his weight comes up -- we have plenty of nature sounds here, since we're semirural, with oak trees hosting birds and squirrels, overhanging the rear of the house where the loft is; he may be getting too excited about food, always searching for more, interested in what my mouth smells like when he snuggles up to me, and of course my body is always on "alert" (pouring adrenaline) while I deal with needle phobia, have been poked by lancet several times when Catcat decides to jump or struggle away, only once by the emptied syringe, always have a horror of future if my prediabetes decided to amp up

given the +4 I just did and entered on spreadsheet -- either he's at nadir before that, or this morning was a fur shot; I'll connect with the vet this next week and see what she says -- I'm guessing an increase to 1.25 or 1.5 -- since we already have evidence that 2 is too much
 
CandyH said:
he may be getting too excited about food, always searching for more, i
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This may be off the beaten path, but maybe it would work if you treated him a little before you tested him? Then he wouldn't be anticipating the food. That doesn't work with Jack, as it just makes him get more excited. But every cat is different...
CandyH said:
we have plenty of nature sounds here, since we're semirural,
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I long to live out of the city. It's never peaceful in my neighborhood! But I know that's beside the point.
And I'm so glad to hear that Catcat is feeling better now! :p
 
Daddy Jack's Mommy said:
This may be off the beaten path, but maybe it would work if you treated him a little before you tested him? Then he wouldn't be anticipating the food. That doesn't work with Jack, as it just makes him get more excited. But every cat is different...

I long to live out of the city. It's never peaceful in my neighborhood! But I know that's beside the point.
And I'm so glad to hear that Catcat is feeling better now! :p
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Oh I wish it could work that way -- he gobbles treats down like an industrial Hoover -- awkward for me to try to poke lancet while he has nose down in food dish, tried that a couple of times and he squirmed away, nearly got his ear sliced -- I did try testing when I had only begun to pop the catfood can lid, as he sniffed it, there he was excited and jumping around, hard to get a poke in that small area of ear -- easier to give the insulin injection when he's nose-down eating a bigger meal, plus I suspect there are fewer pain receptors to either side of his backbone, on the skin I've tented up .. possible though that I'm not getting through the skin, it feels right but the BGL doesn't seem to be diminishing after the shot, the way it did at the vet's
 
coming up on +6, think we are already past nadir, so going to hold off testing today until the PMPS, don't want his poor ears to get ragged, if he'd only *hold still* I could poke carefully in a small spot to get sufficient blood without bruising, milk the area to get only the .3 ml the meter needs, but he fights me every time, won't let me clamp the cotton ball over the puncture either, haven't been bitten yet, just snapped at, but he's gotten me good with claws, even though I keep the front ones clipped bluntly -- am thinking about trying to find a Cat-In-The-
Bag cheaply enough, or rig up an equivalent on my own, the Purrito maneuver isn't effective enough with him
 
Bless your heart, you are definitely having a rough go of getting blood from him!

I'm going to agree with previous comments, set everything out early, etc.

I will add, what room are you feeding and testing in? Due to my multi-cat household and infections present in the household, Alice has been kept very separate. She's in the bathroom since DKA hospitalization, and she's okay with the small space (for now). I know Catcat may need more space than that, but maybe a small enclosed room for testing and meals only, or even treating only, might somehow help?
I can't imagine testing one of my civvies. That boy runs and hides and makes me chase him as soon as a cat carrier comes out. I think I would *have* to lock him in a room. :p

ECID, so its trial and error, which is frustrating but also it's own comfort--it will get easier when you do find the right routine!
 
Daddy Jack's Mommy said:
After you give the shot, is Catcat's fur wet? If it's not, then you should feel confident that it wasn't a fur shot.
He really gives you a hard way to go!
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And I don't know what Vetsulin smells like, but Lantus and NPH (Novolin N) have distinct smells. Ruffle up the fur after the shot to check for both wetness and insulin smell! That's how I judge for a possible FS!
 
AliceMeowliss&Cassandra said:
And I don't know what Vetsulin smells like, but Lantus and NPH (Novolin N) have distinct smells. Ruffle up the fur after the shot to check for both wetness and insulin smell! That's how I judge for a possible FS!
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yes, I check to see if his fur is wet or damp or discolored, that has happened only once, as far as I know, vetsulin doesn't have any particular smell, never noticed any; my main concern is that his BGL isn't dropping much, could be the dose is too low, could be that his insulin resistance is high, could be he's too hopped up with me trying to poke him hourly or every other hour, or from feeling hungry and searching for food (before diagnosis he was freely-feeding his dry kibble day and night)

testing is either in the loft bedroom where I stay most of the time and where he usually stays, or in the adjoining long skinny bathroom (6 feet x 20), his food and water is in front of the cabinet holding the sink -- the commode is at the other end -- once upon a time we had his litterbox near the commode but he's gotten too big to get into the small one we had, now the litterbox is downstairs next to the sliding door to the outside, plus he has access to the dog door on a different wall, if he prefers to use the sawdust pile outdoors; he uses the big Booda type box with fir pellets inside for liquids, solids usually show up in the sawdust (used litter) pile on the property line, beyond the dog's "invisible fence"
 
I'll see if I can set up a separate spreadsheet for the vet's curve numbers, since she's using an Alphatrax and utilizing blood from a different site (suspect neck under his chin since that's where I found a patch of sticky fur with crystals in it) - for now, this is how it went: (starting about 8 AM with fasting glucose) -- 418; +2 was 132; +4 was 52; +6 was 87, +8 was 125 -- I picked him up before +10 time, wasn't able to get a PMPS that evening ... even so that starting number was good to see, as he'd been at 511 on diagnosis the week before
 
My Alice was only sort of regulated on the shorter acting insulin (NPH) when she was getting a total of 10.5 units a day split in 3 doses, and now she's currently getting 8.5u Lantus daily and still not quite there.

Alice has regularly ran much higher numbers than Catcat is at right now. It may just take time to find the right dose. I don't want to dose advise but you can consider a tiny, tiny change like 0.25u maybe, if you're worried it's not enough.

Sometimes I just want my cat to feel better and I feel so impatient and lost. Catcat is adjusting, too!

As far as his appetite goes, you can get human-grade freeze dried meats online fairly cheap, and I have supplemented Alice's desperate hunger and caloric needs with this as well, sometimes wetting it a little, or just feeding it as a dry extra treat, sprinkling it on the wet food.... it's not complete as in it doesn't have all the little vitamins, so you don't ever want to make a whole meal of it. I think its helped her some though and given me 0% options when needed!
 
gotta go get in line at the local church's food bank, they sometimes have canned cat food, early bird gets the "worm" -- have gotten Newman's Own and Nature's Variety Instinct, the kitchen ladies are aware now that I need canned food not kibble ... plus of course I'm picking up human food for the rest of the family, will see also if they have lentils (for the litter box if I think I need to test for ketones)
 
CandyH said:
I'll see if I can set up a separate spreadsheet for the vet's curve numbers, since she's using an Alphatrax and utilizing blood from a different site (suspect neck under his chin since that's where I found a patch of sticky fur with crystals in it) - for now, this is how it went: (starting about 8 AM with fasting glucose) -- 418; +2 was 132; +4 was 52; +6 was 87, +8 was 125 -- I picked him up before +10 time, wasn't able to get a PMPS that evening ... even so that starting number was good to see, as he'd been at 511 on diagnosis the week before
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The alphatrak safe number is I believe no lower than 67. So otherwise it looks pretty good I feel like. Nadir is rather low, and occurs earlier than on things that last longer. I might find out what the vet fed and what times.
 
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AliceMeowliss&Cassandra said:
The alphatrak safe number is I believe no lower than 67. So otherwise it looks pretty good I feel like. Nadir is rather low, and occurs earlier than on things that last longer. I might find out what the vet fed and what times.
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AFAIK she fed only the Newman's Own turkey (she asked me to bring my own can ) or she might have pulled a Purina DM out of her own stock, fed only once just after she took the preshot sample, possibly about 8:30, no other food offered all day ... maybe that's why the BG troughed .. I didn't want that to happen again so have been feeding treats/mini meals every 2 hours up to midcycle ... that 52 scared me spitless when I saw it -- even on a human meter that would be panicsville

momentarily had another thought -- maybe that low low number caused him to bounce, and he's still bouncing a bit? after all, it hasn't been a week yet -- will keep on as I've been doing and see what transpires, but still have a sneaking suspicion I will need to increase dosage slightly, let his body heal and his pancreas maybe get back to some sort of functioning
 
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