Asher, weekend 2/5-6
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Sue and Oliver (GA)
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Always an adventure :mrgreen:
Joanna & Bix (GA)
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To pick up on the last thread, I wouldn't be worried the PZI isn't working based on the lack of a curve yesterday - since the dose was only 0.6, I wouldn't particularly expect any noticeable nadir. You actually got a lot better #s than I would have expected on that dose, YAY! Just informational, if it worked for your schedule, I would have waited 30 minutes and retested. It's quite a low PS to shoot on, and I don't think you shot on that before, right, the one back on 2/1 was actually a 164 PS if I understood right?
The fact that you got that 131 PS yesterday suggests to me the 1.6 from the previous night was too high a dose. I would have pulled back to 1.2 or 1.4 for the next shot (not criticizing, just for information!!!) - not the 131 PS, but after that. The data you have seen since then though does not suggest the dose is too high, so maybe it was just an oddball wonky #, who knows. If you can get a nadir test in today that might help you determine things better.
Nice #s yesterday though, YAY, and nice to see yellow PSs, woohoo!!!
The fact that you got that 131 PS yesterday suggests to me the 1.6 from the previous night was too high a dose. I would have pulled back to 1.2 or 1.4 for the next shot (not criticizing, just for information!!!) - not the 131 PS, but after that. The data you have seen since then though does not suggest the dose is too high, so maybe it was just an oddball wonky #, who knows. If you can get a nadir test in today that might help you determine things better.
Nice #s yesterday though, YAY, and nice to see yellow PSs, woohoo!!!
donnahc
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Thanks Joanna, that is all great info to have!
We shot the .6 yesterday morning on a 131 because on 2/1 he had an amps of 131 and we shot .5...so figured we were good, it was close, and we tested all day.
If we get a lower number in the evening and want to wait and retest in a half hour or hour, we can do that fairly easily. But, in the mornings, mr. hoover and his brother are wild for food. That would be tough to try to hold them off once everyone is in the kitchen and purring and meowing and ready to chow
Doesn’t matter that we leave food out all night, they don’t touch it, they just want food in the morning pronto
Yeah I was psyched to see our amps today in the yellow, not pink. Gonna test his +3 in a few minutes and we’ll post that. I can prob get a +5 or 6 in today also.
Thanks you SO much!!!!
We shot the .6 yesterday morning on a 131 because on 2/1 he had an amps of 131 and we shot .5...so figured we were good, it was close, and we tested all day.
If we get a lower number in the evening and want to wait and retest in a half hour or hour, we can do that fairly easily. But, in the mornings, mr. hoover and his brother are wild for food. That would be tough to try to hold them off once everyone is in the kitchen and purring and meowing and ready to chow
Doesn’t matter that we leave food out all night, they don’t touch it, they just want food in the morning pronto Yeah I was psyched to see our amps today in the yellow, not pink. Gonna test his +3 in a few minutes and we’ll post that. I can prob get a +5 or 6 in today also.
Thanks you SO much!!!!
Joanna & Bix (GA)
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Yeah, I think he did ok on the 131 shot, no worries! I just wanted to post that so any newbies following along wouldn't think that it's typical to shoot on a # like that - you did a reduced dose b/c you couldn't wait and shoot, so sometimes that's a choice you have to make. On 2/1 though, unless I'm totally confused you didn't actually shoot on the 131, you waited an hour and then shot on a 164 or something.
Also I don't think I said it clearly, but there's no reason to be married to 1.6u. I had a hard time when I first started because the data changes so fast and I couldn't keep up mentally with the changes. I was always thinking in terms of a dose that made sense two days ago, and trying to apply that to today's data.
The thing to keep in mind is that it isn't a fixed target - hopefully his pancreas is busy healing and as he sees better #s his insulin needs will go down, possibly quite quickly. And on the flip side, whenever they spend some time in higher #s, they often need more insulin for a short stretch to get things back under control. So you kind of have to roll with the data, especially when you are at a fine-tuning stage like you look to be.
Of course now that you are on 1.6 I would probably stay there and get more data - if your nadirs are heading below 60 or PSs heading below 150, then you know a dose decrease is warranted. If tonight's PS is significantly lower than this AMs, I would probably pull the dose back to 1.4, though it depends too on what you see mid-day today.
Also I don't think I said it clearly, but there's no reason to be married to 1.6u. I had a hard time when I first started because the data changes so fast and I couldn't keep up mentally with the changes. I was always thinking in terms of a dose that made sense two days ago, and trying to apply that to today's data.
The thing to keep in mind is that it isn't a fixed target - hopefully his pancreas is busy healing and as he sees better #s his insulin needs will go down, possibly quite quickly. And on the flip side, whenever they spend some time in higher #s, they often need more insulin for a short stretch to get things back under control. So you kind of have to roll with the data, especially when you are at a fine-tuning stage like you look to be.
Of course now that you are on 1.6 I would probably stay there and get more data - if your nadirs are heading below 60 or PSs heading below 150, then you know a dose decrease is warranted. If tonight's PS is significantly lower than this AMs, I would probably pull the dose back to 1.4, though it depends too on what you see mid-day today.
donnahc
Very Active Member
Your memory is better than mine, yes I see in my note in the spread sheet we actually didn’t shoot until he hit 164.
These numbers swirl in my head and sometimes I forget a number while I walk up the steps to the computer to post, then have to go back to the kitchen to look again. This is why I write everything down. Everything.
So, not being married to 1.6units, if he just goes down all day today (with no nadir and then rise again), we can assume 1.6 is too much... So if numbers are ok to do so, we could shoot 1.4 then.
What if he is too low for 1.4 ? Any suggestions on that?
If we go with a reduced dose tonight, then is it best to try the same dose in the morning?
I guess all my questions come down to one: if you reduce a dose for a good reason, even tho you are not married to a certain dose, is it best to see what is happening to try to hold that new dose at least a couple cycles or shoots?
These numbers swirl in my head and sometimes I forget a number while I walk up the steps to the computer to post, then have to go back to the kitchen to look again. This is why I write everything down. Everything.
So, not being married to 1.6units, if he just goes down all day today (with no nadir and then rise again), we can assume 1.6 is too much... So if numbers are ok to do so, we could shoot 1.4 then.
What if he is too low for 1.4 ? Any suggestions on that?
If we go with a reduced dose tonight, then is it best to try the same dose in the morning?
I guess all my questions come down to one: if you reduce a dose for a good reason, even tho you are not married to a certain dose, is it best to see what is happening to try to hold that new dose at least a couple cycles or shoots?
Joanna & Bix (GA)
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One rule of thumb is that you lower the dose immediately on any low # (nadir below 50, PS below 150, or slightly different #s depending on your comfort level), but do not raise the dose based on one higher #.
So if you go by that, if you lower the dose, you would hold at your lowered dose unless you see another low #, and then lower again. If the #s go higher after a couple cycles on the reduced dose, then you would consider raising the dose either back to where you were before, or to somewhere in between ideally.
Yes to what you said about #s headed down all day - if you see a late nadir, I would lower the dose. If he is too low to shoot tonight, you have options:
- wait and retest in say 30 minutes and shoot maybe 1.2 or 1.4 once he is over your no-shoot level
- if the # isn't super low (like say you got another 130), do a rising # test if needed and shoot a reduced dose like you did before
- if the # is super low (under 100 or possibly a little higher) and waiting til you get a shootable # isn't practical, skip the shot and pick up with 1.2 or 1.4 in the morning
But if you shot something like a 0.6 tonight, I wouldn't stick with that in the AM (unless you get a perfect PS). Most likely he would go higher overnight, and then you would go back to your trial dose (say 1.4 if tonight's PS is low) in the morning.
Generally I would say you want to hold a dose a few cycles if you are on a dose increase path, if you need time to gather more data, if you need time to see what a dose is doing (like the #s are wonky and you want to hold steady and see if things settle down), or if life dictates that you can't think beyond that dose right now. When you have data on any given cycle though that is telling you fairly clearly that the dose is too high or too low, then I think it makes sense to adjust the dose as soon as you see that. For many cats that isn't the case, and for them, there is some need to hold a little steadier with the doses and see what happens.
But in any case you would almost always want to lower immediately if you get either low nadirs or PSs.
So if you go by that, if you lower the dose, you would hold at your lowered dose unless you see another low #, and then lower again. If the #s go higher after a couple cycles on the reduced dose, then you would consider raising the dose either back to where you were before, or to somewhere in between ideally.
Yes to what you said about #s headed down all day - if you see a late nadir, I would lower the dose. If he is too low to shoot tonight, you have options:
- wait and retest in say 30 minutes and shoot maybe 1.2 or 1.4 once he is over your no-shoot level
- if the # isn't super low (like say you got another 130), do a rising # test if needed and shoot a reduced dose like you did before
- if the # is super low (under 100 or possibly a little higher) and waiting til you get a shootable # isn't practical, skip the shot and pick up with 1.2 or 1.4 in the morning
But if you shot something like a 0.6 tonight, I wouldn't stick with that in the AM (unless you get a perfect PS). Most likely he would go higher overnight, and then you would go back to your trial dose (say 1.4 if tonight's PS is low) in the morning.
Generally I would say you want to hold a dose a few cycles if you are on a dose increase path, if you need time to gather more data, if you need time to see what a dose is doing (like the #s are wonky and you want to hold steady and see if things settle down), or if life dictates that you can't think beyond that dose right now.
When you have data on any given cycle though that is telling you fairly clearly that the dose is too high or too low, then I think it makes sense to adjust the dose as soon as you see that. For many cats that isn't the case, and for them, there is some need to hold a little steadier with the doses and see what happens.But in any case you would almost always want to lower immediately if you get either low nadirs or PSs.
donnahc
Very Active Member
That’s great Joanna. Thanks so much for explaining all of that.
I’m gonna get a +5 today, then I have to be out for a bit (if his number isn’t low), and we’ll get more #s tonight and take it from there.
I love to have a game plan in mind, even when he decides to change that all for me :mrgreen:
I’m gonna get a +5 today, then I have to be out for a bit (if his number isn’t low), and we’ll get more #s tonight and take it from there.
I love to have a game plan in mind, even when he decides to change that all for me :mrgreen:
Charliemeow
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you've gotten some nice movement today so far. Hopefully yesterday was just an off-day for Asher.
Joanna & Bix (GA)
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I'd say 82 at +6 is perfect! Go out & play!
Joanna & Bix (GA)
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Nice day! Go Asher!!!!
It doesn't look like 1.6 was too much in a danger sense, but probably too much in a practical sense when the next PS is low, so I'd probably try 1.4 in the AM (assuming the # is shootable). Or if you are going off to work and worried about overshooting, I'd try 1.2. If you leave food out though, I would think 1.4 would likely be just fine, and likely the PS tomorrow will be a bit higher anyway.
Looks like he may be on a dose reduction path, yippee!!!!
It doesn't look like 1.6 was too much in a danger sense, but probably too much in a practical sense when the next PS is low, so I'd probably try 1.4 in the AM (assuming the # is shootable). Or if you are going off to work and worried about overshooting, I'd try 1.2. If you leave food out though, I would think 1.4 would likely be just fine, and likely the PS tomorrow will be a bit higher anyway.
Looks like he may be on a dose reduction path, yippee!!!!
donnahc
Very Active Member
Thanks for all your help Joanna! I am psyched about this dose reduction too!!!!
Yes, we indeed gave him 1.4 u this morning on an amps of 310. (surprised that wasn’t higher, with reducing his dose last night)
We’ll see where that takes us. I have to go check on my Mom today but Tom will be here with him all day and will try to get a +6 reading.
Asher’s feeling good because there was kitty galloping downstairs this morning
Yes, we indeed gave him 1.4 u this morning on an amps of 310. (surprised that wasn’t higher, with reducing his dose last night)
We’ll see where that takes us. I have to go check on my Mom today but Tom will be here with him all day and will try to get a +6 reading.
Asher’s feeling good because there was kitty galloping downstairs this morning
KristenP&Sam
Active Member
Wow, you're doing great! Way to go, Asher!
donnahc
Very Active Member
Well...numbers are weird today, but he usually takes a day or so to settle out if we change something.
His amps was 310 this morning, we shot 1.4, and his +6 was only 226 :?
So we’ll see what his pmps is in less than an hour.
I guess we’ll hang with the 1.4 for another day to see if things normalize a bit so we can see what’s going on...
His amps was 310 this morning, we shot 1.4, and his +6 was only 226 :?
So we’ll see what his pmps is in less than an hour.
I guess we’ll hang with the 1.4 for another day to see if things normalize a bit so we can see what’s going on...
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