Arrgh. Just heard from my vet...Anyone in Indianapolis?

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MaryB & Chester

MaryB & Chester

Member Since 2012
And here's what my vet has to say...
As far as feeding goes, I do not think the diets you are currently using, or the one you plan to switch to is a good idea for Chester or the other kitties. There is currently a lot of information out other on nutrition for cats and dogs, and unfortunately much of it is mis-information and marketing tools.
All cats, including Chester and diabetics, need carbohydrates in their diets.
The best diet for Chester would be a diabetic diet such as Hill's w/d, m/d, or r/d. These diets have a balance of complex and simple carbs that are best to help maintain blood sugar (prevent peaks and troughs). However, I understand that since these are prescription diets, they can be a little more costly and troublesome to use when you have more than one cat. In that case, would recommend switching to a "mature cat diet" that has a similar balance of carbohydrates. I would recommend Science Diet mature adult. Any of these diets would be appropriate to feed to all kitties in the house as long as they are 6 to 8 months or older.
Please know that low carb/zero carb diets are usually too high in proteins and research is now showing these can increase the incidence, severity, and age of onset of kidney disease in cats.

For the BG curves. There is also a lot of mis-information out there about BG monitors as well as well as there are many actually scientific papers and research on BG monitoring that shows Alpha track. A difference of 30 units in measuring a BG is a very large amount. This could be the difference of having a normal blood sugar or having a blood sugar that reads low. Since we are starting Chester's curves, he is likely going to be high for a while until we titrate his insulin dose to the right amount for him. However, I do think you are doing the right thing by using the Alpha track for the BG curve. You really do not need to spot check blood glucose as it is not rewarding for long term assessment or evaluation. But, you are not alone as a lot of folks feel more comfortable being able to spot check. Spot check BG's are used often, from my understanding, in people mostly because we have much more varied diets (considering I just ate two pieces of birthday cake!).
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Is there anyone in the Indianapolis area who is happy with their vet and their cat's treatment?
 
Wow! Way off on food. Have you shared catinfo.org with him? Kelly and Oscar aren't in the city but may have suggestions. I sent her a pm.

And of course, you can stick with them, feeding what you know is best and taking tests as you want. They are not there to watch and you can share the info you want with them. Many of us use our vets for routine visits like shots and check ups and manage the diabetics at home.

But it would be lovely to have a vet who is up to date.
 
Kelly just replied to my pm. She may also reply on this thread. In case not, here is what she said:


I didn't have much luck in that realm - I had to take charge of that on my own. In Indy it seemed many of the large vets were affiliated with VCA. In Bloomington, I had the best luck with College Mall Veterinary.

--Kelly
 
Yeah, I didn't have much luck in that realm up there. I just took in a copy of Janet & Binky's food charts and pointed out the carbs of fancy feast and specific friskies flavors that I could feed for less money and my vet gave in. What others have said is good advice - do your own research and decide what is best for you and your crew. The big thing about science diet is that the ingredients and portions stay exactly the same batch to batch. Other than that, their ingredients are on par with the cheaper brands you can find in the grocery store.
 
I just read your vet's letter and could write a book refuting what he/she said. My main concern is spot checks. Testing at the vet is basing the dose off of stressed numbers and your cat will have lower numbers at home. If you want to see why we spot check -take a look at Oscar's spreadsheet. He is the poster child for why we spot check! LOL
 
Your vet is completely wrong?
All cats, including Chester and diabetics, need carbohydrates in their diets
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.
Cats are obligate carnivores, and have zero need for carbs. Their digestive systems convert fats and proteins into glucose to provide them with energy. Carbohydrates are pointless. Ask him if he skipped feline nutrition 101.

Unfortunately, they seem to have bought into the "marketing scheme" of companies like Hills and Purina, the makers of all of those wonderful "prescription diet" flavors of carbage.

The perfect food for a "wild" cat is the mouse. Nothing but protein and fat. The only carbs a cat would get from eating a mouse would be from the undigested food in the mouse's tummy. Yeah, your vet is sadly misinformed.

Carl
 
Yikes. I posted in lantus to see if we can find a better vet in Indianopolis. However like Sue said, you don't have to do what they say - its not like they stand over you with a big stick and watch your every move!!

I wonder if he misunderstood though, we just want low carb diet under 10% - not a zero carb. Many of the Fancy feasts and Wellness are around 5-8% which is perfect. And they are canned and wet which may help prevent kidney disease.
 
Spot checks....
Does your vet advise basing the Lantus dose on the Nadir readings rather than on the preshot numbers? How else can you assess the performance of the dose? If he dosen't base the dose on the nadir, then add "doesn't understand how to dose Lantus" to the list of reasons for finding a new vet.
Carl
 
Carl & Bob said:
Your vet is completely wrong?
All cats, including Chester and diabetics, need carbohydrates in their diets
Click to expand...
.
Cats are obligate carnivores, and have zero need for carbs. Their digestive systems convert fats and proteins into glucose to provide them with energy. Carbohydrates are pointless. Ask him if he skipped feline nutrition 101.
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Even if he took Feline Nutrition 101, it was probably given by Hill's and is completely inaccurate! :lol:

By definition alone, your vet is wrong, wrong, wrong!
Obligate carnivore (plural obligate carnivores)
Noun
An animal that necessarily subsists on a diet consisting mainly of meat, because it does not possess the physiology to digest vegetable matter. Such animals may consume other materials (vegetable or mineral) for non-nutritional purposes.
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The low carb over the counter foods typically have a higher fat percentage than protein percentage so that axes that argument. And most importantly, canned or raw low carb foods are about 78% MOISTURE which is critical in providing the kidneys the proper materials to filter toxins from the body. Its dehydration from the dry food that is the real problem (Per Cat Info).
 
I'm just so frustrated. I want to keep some kind of good relationship with this vet. She's at one of the few 24-hour emergency hospitals in the city and only about 10 minutes away from my house. So she's one of the doctors I'll probably be dealing with in the case of any kind of emergency.

Yeah, I just won't tell her what I'm feeding. I'll use the AlphaTrak for any tests that get reported to her. I'll keep looking for a second opinion...Has anyone ever "broken up" with a vet you needed to maintain a relationship with? How'd you do it and how'd it go?
 
I know you vet watched the geico commercial with the antelopes in the night vision goggles - telling Karl the lion that they can see him hunting and suggesting that he go vegan. So Karl the lion will eat lettuce and celery instead of antelope!

sorry, needed to inject some humor into this.

seriously though - have you ever seen lions and tigers eating salad and breadsticks? I haven;t they want their meat.

and think about this - human diabetics are told to eat low carb, high protein foods - well isn;t is the same for cats?

if you cannot find a different vet, then you will need to not discuss food with the vet and tell him/her that you have it handled and will do what you think is best and prescription food is not the best.
 
Best way to "break up" with the vet is the age-old favorite of dwindling communication and non-responsiveness. You're probably already doing a better job managing your cat's diabetes than your vet, so just stop going. If they reach out and contact you to find out when you want to schedule your next appointment, just don't call them back. Or, if you answer, say you'll have to check your schedule and get back to them, but then never get back to them.

If you (hopefully NEVER) run into your vet at the ER, you can either lie through your teeth and say that your neighbor/friend/relative is a vet and has been treating you for free or tell the truth: "we've been doing so well that we haven't needed your services! Isn't that great? :-D "
 
Here's a great link that explains why cats don't eat salad.
http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm

NUTRIENT REQUIREMENTS

Cats, like all animals, require six classes of nutrients: water, energy, protein, essential fatty acids, minerals, and vitamins. Cats do not have a dietary requirement for carbohydrates. The metabolic requirement for glucose in the cat is derived from protein (glucogenic amino acids) and fat (glycerol). Cats are adapted to a protein- fat-rich, carbohydrate-poor diet.
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All animals have a metabolic requirement for glucose. Carnivores, such as the cat, convert glucogenic amino acids and glycerol to glucose for the maintenance of blood glucose, and therefore, have no established dietary requirement for carbohydrates.
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The whole website is a great source of cat info:
http://maxshouse.com/Database_toc.htm

Carl
 
The fact is that there is no feline nutrition 101 ... they get a quick lesson from a Hills or Purina salesperson, and that's it. It's really not their fault. But we can help educate them.

Here's a great article by a very well-known and respected endocrinology vet in NYC : http://endocrinevet.blogspot.ca/2013/01/feeding-cat-with-diabetes-mellitus.html

I would actually print that off and have your vet read it. He is the real deal -- he had early FD kitties on this board going into remission when that was unheard of. As a respected vet, perhaps his words will carry more weight with your own vet.

I would also strong suggest that you guide her to Dr Lisa's site : http://www.catinfo.org

Again, you're not quoting "internet crazies" or commercials or wikipedia articles. These vets have dedicated their lives to this topic. She may learn something, and she may be a better vet for it.
 
I think it pays to try to work with or around a vet who you are satisfied with in other respects. When my vet suggested things I didn't want to do, like raising the insulin too fast, I'd say I wasn't comfortable with it and wanted to take a more conservative approach. Thankfully, my vet respected my research and if she thought I was nuts to be listening to the "nuts" on the internet, she didn't say it.

My take on your vet's points:

1. Your vet can't control what you feed your cats. They recommend and your either do what they say or not, just like you do with your own doctor. If questioned about it, say you are feeding what you can afford and that's that. The vet may try to guilt trip you into other food, but what else can she do?? I printed out the food charts and showed my vet - she wasn't happy but didn't press it.

2. As to the Alpha track being more accurate (about 30 pts) for cats, I have read on this site that is actually correct. But all you do is take that into consideration when looking at the numbers. All the numbers we talk about here are using human glucometers and we want to know when someone is testing with an Alpha track. All meters have a variance of 20% anyway, so none of the numbers from any of them is carved in stone. So your vets objections to a human meter doesn't hold water. Again, do what you want, the vet won't know.

3. Home testing is necessary. You don't need your vet's permission to do it. Many vets are against home testing because they are afraid their client will make wild insulin dose changes and possibly harm the cat. After you get some good data via testing your vet might see that you are a client who can handle it. Or not. If not, they don't need to know.
 
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