Are we headed for a crash? Need advice

Marianne M

Marianne M

Member
Good evening. This is Mango's third cycle of 3 units of Prozinc up from 2.75. He was in the black for his AMPS. I've tested through out the day today and just tested 3+ PMPS. He is going low. He went low last night and I had injured my foot and felt asleep and didn't test after +5. Seems that he goes his lowest at +9. Should I stay up and keep testing until 2 am? I will do whatever it takes to not see him in trouble. As you all know it's a challenge to find the correct dosage. I have no idea if he crashed last night as he seemed chipper and perfectly find at 5 am our test time. Please assure me if I am on the right path or not. Advice is appreciated.
 
Hi Marianne. It’s hard to say that his nadir is at +9 from today. It could just be an unusual cycle if he bounced up this am from lows last night, so let’s not worry about that part of it too much.

Was your +3 122? (It has that for +2 on the SS?). And is that on a human meter or a pet meter?
 
Jenna Josie said:
Hi Marianne. It’s hard to say that his nadir is at +9 from today. It could just be an unusual cycle if he bounced up this am from lows last night, so let’s not worry about that part of it too much.

Was your +3 122? (It has that for +2 on the SS?). And is that on a human meter or a pet meter?
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The 122 was 3 hours after his dinner at 5 pm. On a human meter.
 
Oh, good, on both of those things! His +4 should be coming up soon, I think, maybe on the half-hour? That will be a good test to get as it will let us know if he is going to slow down here a bit for you.
 
Jenna Josie said:
Oh, good, on both of those things! His +4 should be coming up soon, I think, maybe on the half-hour? That will be a good test to get as it will let us know if he is going to slow down here a bit for you.
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Just tested down to 81. First numbers in the green! Not coming up yet. Will keep testing.
 
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So it looks like Mango is having an active cycle! He's still perfectly safe -- those dark green numbers are gorgeous! -- but let's maybe slow him down a tiny bit just in case he is indeed a late-nadir cat.

Give him about 1/4 of one of those little Fancy Feast cans (your sig block says that's what you feed him? the little 3 oz cans?). If you have something that's *not* a fish flavor (fish flavors tend to have 0 carbs, and we want him to have just a tiny bit of low carbs so that the insulin has something to work with), that would be great. For, ex, do you maybe have the classic chicken pate?
 
Just seeing this now. You're in good hands with Jenna but I'll keep an eye out too just in case Jenna needs a break.;) I've put a link to this thread on the Health forum so we don't end up with 2 threads going.
 
Jenna Josie said:
So it looks like Mango is having an active cycle! He's still perfectly safe -- those dark green numbers are gorgeous! -- but let's maybe slow him down a tiny bit just in case he is indeed a late-nadir cat.

Give him about 1/4 of one of those little Fancy Feast cans (your sig block says that's what you feed him? the little 3 oz cans?). If you have something that's *not* a fish flavor (fish flavors tend to have 0 carbs, and we want him to have just a tiny bit of low carbs so that the insulin has something to work with), that would be great. For, ex, do you maybe have the classic chicken pate?
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Ok just gave him the beef and chicken FF pate. He's happily eating! Next test in half hour. I can't thank you enough for walking me through this Jenna.
 
Aw, thanks. *blushes* I well remember being just where you are and Djamila swooping in to calm me down, so I'm happy to pay it forward!

Let us know what the next test is. We will hope/expect it to be about the same or maybe a tiny bit up from his snack. That snack will have been in his system for 20-30 minutes by the next test, so that is enough time to see it's impact.
 
Jenna Josie said:
Aw, thanks. *blushes* I well remember being just where you are and Djamila swooping in to calm me down, so I'm happy to pay it forward!

Let us know what the next test is. We will hope/expect it to be about the same or maybe a tiny bit up from his snack. That snack will have been in his system for 20-30 minutes by the next test, so that is enough time to see it's impact.
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He came up to 83. How much longer should I keep testing? Since he is so new to Prozinc not sure where he peaks and heads back up.
 
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No we are not headed for a crash. Let's assume for the moment that Mango has discovered how to surf. No more food right now and retest in 30 minutes to see if he is holding or rising without any further steering.
 
That’s good! The snack is helping hold him steady. (Although the number is technically up, normal meter variance means it’s pretty much the same number ...).

If it were me, I would hold off on feeding him more and get another test in an hour to see ...

Oh, yes! What Linda says! :) Though she says 30 minutes. ;) Maybe split the difference and retest in 45? :)
 
I will split the difference and test in 45 minutes. Time of testing will be 11:30pm from the time of his snack.
 
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45 minutes or an hour works too. I'm so used to having everyone anxious to go to bed lately, I've got in a habit of saying half hour so we can carb them up if need be! :woot:
 
Jenna Josie said:
That’s good! The snack is helping hold him steady. (Although the number is technically up, normal meter variance means it’s pretty much the same number ...).

If it were me, I would hold off on feeding him more and get another test in an hour to see ...

Oh, yes! What Linda says! :) Though she says 30 minutes. ;) Maybe split the difference and retest in 45? :)
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45 min from snack and he is now up to 362. Isn't that two fast of a rise? I have no idea what this all means:( Afraid I will see amps tomorrow in the 500's again.
 
Ok that seems really odd....like you gave him a vat of karo and we all know you didn't. Retest to see if it was an off test please.
 
Well my best guess is that he found the trampoline and is putting it to good use. Last night he went down to blues and this AM he was really high. Now he's hit green so I imagine his little body is going "what the devil is going on?" just like you are. I think you can safely call it a night. If you are concerned, grab one more test before you hit the sack.
Unfortunately bouncing is one of those things you just have to ride out. He's getting some good numbers and he came down pretty quick so it was to be expected.

Noticed the high ketones note on your SS a few days back. Have you tested him recently? I'm not thinking that has anything to do with the numbers....just curious because ketones can cause problems.
 
What?! :confused:

I agree with Linda. No explanation except a serious bounce!

@MrWorfMen's Mom: given that he came down so quickly tonight, and that this morning's high AMPS suggests he may also have gone low over last night, would you suggest bringing the dose back down to 2.75 tomorrow AM (even though we suspect he will be high)?
 
Ok silly question but I have to ask because sometimes in our angst.....you didn't by any chance use the AT2 for that last test instead of the Prime did you?

Unfortunately you may see another very high AMPS but there is nothing you can do about it.

Jenna Josie said:
would you suggest bringing the dose back down to 2.75 tomorrow AM (even though we suspect he will be high)?
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The thought crossed my mind but with this sudden rise tonight from even lower numbers I don't know if he necessarily went too low last night. I think he's just got one heck of a bounce mechanism. That said, I do wonder if taking the dose back down to 2.75u and giving him a few more cycles there to get used to slightly lower numbers might calm down the bounces. Sometimes I find it works to ease them into the better numbers.
 
No I am currently waiting for a new AT2 meter as my malfunctioned. I only have the Relion Prime to test. Did not catch Mango in the litter box for a urine to test for ketones. I think I will do what you suggested Linda and take him back down to 2.75 tomorrow morning. I can't thank you Jenna and Linda enough for riding this out with me. I now can get some sleep as 5 am will come quickly. Good night lovely ladies.
 
Jenna and Linda, I've been out of the house most of the afternoon. Mango looks good so far. Tonight I will do more testing and hope my little man decides to stay off the dang trampoline! This FD stuff is exhausting but I will do anything for my :cat:
 
Mango is looking good. I'm liking those blues today. Really thought he might stay on the trampoline a little longer but it looks like he got tired of it. Be interesting to see what his PMPS is tonight. Did you reduce the dose to 2.75u this AM?
 
He’s still a little bouncy though, isn’t he, silly boy. He went from the 160s to 300 in two hours? But that could be because his shot wore off early, if you reduced this morning. :confused:

I would like to see what he can do on a few cycles of 2.75u. It’s so hard to know what’s going on when they are being bouncy like this, but it’s good to take both the previous cycle’s nadir and the PS number into account. (Except this AM cycle’s nadir. ;) This AM cycle’s nadir doesn’t count since it was in all probability higher than it would have been since he was clearing the bounce.)
 
Jenna Josie said:
He’s still a little bouncy though, isn’t he, silly boy. He went from the 160s to 300 in two hours? But that could be because his shot wore off early, if you reduced this morning. :confused:

I would like to see what he can do on a few cycles of 2.75u. It’s so hard to know what’s going on when they are being bouncy like this, but it’s good to take both the previous cycle’s nadir and the PS num
Jenna Josie said:
He’s still a little bouncy though, isn’t he, silly boy. He went from the 160s to 300 in two hours? But that could be because his shot wore off early, if you reduced this morning. :confused:

I would like to see what he can do on a few cycles of 2.75u. It’s so hard to know what’s going on when they are being bouncy like this, but it’s good to take both the previous cycle’s nadir and the PS number into account. (Except this AM cycle’s nadir. ;) This AM cycle’s nadir doesn’t count since it was in all probability higher than it would have been since he was clearing the bounce.)
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Jenna Josie said:
He’s still a little bouncy though, isn’t he, silly boy. He went from the 160s to 300 in two hours? But that could be because his shot wore off early, if you reduced this morning. :confused:

I would like to see what he can do on a few cycles of 2.75u. It’s so hard to know what’s going on when they are being bouncy like this, but it’s good to take both the previous cycle’s nadir and the PS number into account. (Except this AM cycle’s nadir. ;) This AM cycle’s nadir doesn’t count since it was in all probability higher than it would have been since he was clearing the bounce.)
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ber into account. (Except this AM cycle’s nadir. ;) This AM cycle’s nadir doesn’t count since it was in all probability higher than it would have been since he was clearing the bounce.)
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No I keep his dose at 3 unit. He had eaten some Dr Esley Chix dry an hour ago as it was out for my other cat. Forgot to pick it up so may be why he is at 439 as he ate it just an hour ago. Will test at 11. Don't know why I didn't reduce his dosage. Brain fog. Should I reduce it tomorrow or just stay the course with the 3 units.
 
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MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Mango is looking good. I'm liking those blues today. Really thought he might stay on the trampoline a little longer but it looks like he got tired of it. Be interesting to see what his PMPS is tonight. Did you reduce the dose to 2.75u this AM?
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I kept him at the 3 units. Must have had brain fog today. Should I reduce it tomorrow or see how this go with the 3 units?
 
Got it! He’s probably okay with just the +6. And maybe his little ears could use the break — he got a lot of pokes during his adventures last night! :cat:
 
I think I'd back him off to 2.75u. You were only on that dose for a couple of cycles. Mango's numbers suggest to me he might take longer to settle into a dose than 3 cycles and you never tried 1.75u at all and the jump from 1.5u to 2.5u appears to have caused some BG elevation. I'm not convinced you might not have missed the best dose. I'd monitor him carefully tomorrow if you can.
 
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MrWorfMen's Mom said:
I think I'd back him off to 2.75u. You were only on that dose for a couple of cycles. Mango's numbers suggest to me he might take longer to settle into a dose than 3 cycles and you never tried 1.75u at all and the jump from 1.5u to 2.5u appears to have caused some BG elevation. I'm not convinced you might not have missed the best dose. I'd monitor him carefully tomorrow if you can.
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Our new vet as of last Sat.started him on the Prozinc at the 2.5 units. The previous vet diagnosed Mango and put him on Vetulin at 2 units then 2.5 bumped to 3 than brought down to 1.5. So....... here we are :cat: and I am feeling :confused: as well as :arghh: but this too shall pass!
 
Yes, and it is so hard, especially when we are aware that a lower dose might not be what they need, but patience is crucial. Give sweet Mango time to adjust to a dose, and react accordingly. People generally say 3-4 cycles before changing. I like four, with a change in the morning if it's an increase, since kitties tend to run lower at night. :bighug:
 
Even though he’s high, it’s really hard to know *why* he’s high. I suspect he’s bouncing around — his little body freaking out from what, for him, are low numbers, and consequently dumping stored sugars to counteract that. I do think that an experiment with a reduction, like @MrWorfMen's Mom suggested, to 2.75 for three to four cycles, could be instructive and will hopefully calm down the bounciness.

The good news on the dose reduction is that you can worry less that he’ll repeat last night’s shenanigans, though you should definitely test for ketones, which as you know can be dangerous.
 
Bounces can take several cycles to clear. Increasing doses too soon/too much in a bouncy kitty can leave you in a state of perpetual bouncing that makes it look like more insulin is needed. Some kitties settle into a dose sooner than others so in some 3 cycles might be enough to see how a dose is working while others may need 3 days or more. It's all about figuring out what works for your unique four footer.
 
Jenna Josie said:
Even though he’s high, it’s really hard to know *why* he’s high. I suspect he’s bouncing around — his little body freaking out from what, for him, are low numbers, and consequently dumping stored sugars to counteract that. I do think that an experiment with a reduction, like @MrWorfMen's Mom suggested, to 2.75 for three to four cycles, could be instructive and will hopefully calm down the bounciness.

The good news on the dose reduction is that you can worry less that he’ll repeat last night’s shenanigans, though you should definitely test for ketones, which as you know can be dangerous.
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I will reduce tomorrow and keep trying to get a urine sample. Mango has no set time for doing his business. I'd have to plant myself in front of the hall closet to watch :rolleyes: I purchased a new kitty litter called Pretty Litter and it turns colors for certain cat illnesses like blue for blood, orange for high PH, green for UTI's and the first evening we used the litter and I did get an actual urine sample from Mango and sure enough the litter turned orange. Since he saw the vet last Sat. and got treatment the litter color has been yellow which is normal. Really interesting litter. You only remove the solid waste and stir the litter as it is does not clump. There is no smell and you change it once a month. It's has a different texture. Kind of fluffy. And it is pretty. White with pink beads. Good night ladies and once again thanks for sharing my concerns and your expert advice. I can see light at the end of the :rb_icon:
 
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