Are we being cruel?

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gene

Member Since 2012
Hello:

I am new to this forum and would like some advice.

We found a cat in early August on our back deck. He was dehydrated, hungry and walking strangely - turns out his front claws were ingrown into his pads. So in effect he was walking on his wrists.

Took him to the vet who said he is approx. 15 years old and diabetic. Didn't run tests as it is evident from the neuropathy in his hind legs.

We are feeding him Purina DM 5 times a day in 4 hours intervals.

No insulin or blood glucose testing is being done.

I'm in the processing of finding out how to get Zobaline to help with the neuropathy.

We feel he is an old cat and we just want to keep him comfortable in his old age, but are we being cruel?

This is tearing me apart emotionally.

Can anyone provide some guidance?

Thanks.
 
Honestly I would say yes. Why not treat the kitty with insulin. It is not that hard at all. The cat is essentially staving. What city do you live? Maybe someone if nearby and can help you get started with treatment.
 
Gene,
Welcome to you and your extra sweet baby. Sounds like he's been thru a lot poor baby. THANK YOU for taking care of him!

The diabetes - diabetes is NOT a death sentence and is not hard to take care of - we've been doing it well over a year, others have been doing this dance for years! BUT you DO need to begin treating it - without insulin, his body cannot use the food. An untreated diabetic starves to death while eating everything in sight. 15 is 'older' but not necessarily 'elderly', every cat is different.

Cruelty is NOT treating it....let's get you started. We teach many many people to test and dose over the internet - we LIVE feline diabetes 24/7.

BIG HUG!!! Please let us help!
 
gene said:
Took him to the vet who said he is approx. 15 years old and diabetic. Didn't run tests as it is evident from the neuropathy in his hind legs.
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Well, first you need to get an accurate diagnosis. You can't diagnose diabetes based on the appearance of what seems to be neuropathy. I'm really shocked that a vet would make that diagnosis on so little information.

Get the right diagnosis first so you can make informed treatment decisions.
 
I just lost the post I just wrote, I'll try again.

Hi and Welcome :smile:

First I would get a fructosamine test to make sure he really is diabetic.

Then, if he is, I would purchase a human glucometer and strips (cheapest from WalMart) and begin to home test his blood sugars (we can help you with this, we've helped a lot of people learn to home test). Most vets are not used to clients who home test their cat's blood sugars, so I hope you can find a vet that will become your partner in helping you with this endeavour to give your new cat friend the healthiest of years ahead.

If your cat is diabetic, and he isn't producing enough insulin on his own, his blood sugars will remain high, and then you need to start to give him some insulin (we can help you to make a choice of which kind of insulin to ask for).
If you don't give him any insulin, then he will basically starve to death. Insulin is what helps the food get into the cells to give the cat energy.

We have helped 100s, probably 1000s of cats with this decease. You've come to the right place for guidance.

I hope you cat has many years ahead of him :-D
 
Hello, and welcome to the forum. :-)

How kind you are to take this cat into your home, and to want to make the latter part of his life more comfortable. What is his name?

If he is diabetic then giving insulin could greatly improve his quality of life. He will feel better. He will look better. His coat will become shinier and his eyes will become brighter. How do I know this? Because when I took my cat to the vet five and a half years ago he was in a pretty sorry state. He looked miserable. He was lethargic. His coat was poor and full of white flakes. He was walking strangely, on his hocks. He was thirsty all the time and peeing loads. He looked like a really old cat but was in fact just 8 years old. I'd been quite ill myself at the time and somehow just hadn't taken on board how his condition had deteriorated. Suddenly, one day, I realised, and was so shocked! The vet prescribed insulin, and I found this forum and put him on methyl B12 ('Zobaline') as well to try to help the neuropathy. Just a few months later he was 'a different cat'. All the outward symptoms of diabetes had disappeared. Insulin therapy is such powerful medicine!

My cat is now thirteen and a half years old. He had a vet check up last week and the vet says he's doing really well.

If you can find it in your heart to do so, then I really would urge you to get a thorough diagnosis and - if he's diabetic, begin insulin therapy. It could improve the quality and the length of the cat's life. And saving a life is a pretty good feeling!

Pending diagnosis, it would be helpful just to make sure that he's eating the right kind of food; low carbohydrate canned food. And make sure he has plenty of water available to drink.

Again, thanks for taking this cat into your life and home.

Best wishes to you,

Elizabeth
 
You took the first step by taking kitty in and feeding and watering...he now feels love...

Give kitty a chance and listen to what the board is saying, you can help kitty, it takes a little time, but kitty can have many years ahead of happy times with his new owner!
 
If you do not treat the diabetes (after confirming it with the fructosamine testing), you are sentencing the cat to a slow death by starvation, as the lack of insulin prevents the food from being used by the body.

As the others note, the right food (low carb canned or raw), home glucose monitoring, and insulin will help this cat survive.
 
A diabetes diagnosis can also be confirmed with a urinalysis, which is less expensive than a fructosamine if bloodwork has already been done. Not sure if finances are a large issue in the decision to treat, but there are many ways to reduce costs and make treatment very affordable (for example, there are many grocery store foods that are much cheaper than Purina DM that are the same or better quality--Purina DM is nearly identical to Liver & Chicken Fancy Feast, so you're just paying for the label with that food). But I agree that it is cruel to let the cat slowly deteriorate rather than treat; but treating diabetes is very, very manageable, and not the chore you might think! I would strongly encourage you to give treatment a chance.
 
You got some great advise from everyone. I would at least get bloodwork done to confirm the diagnosis of diabetes. When I brought Max in the vet felt his symptoms could have been kidney failure, thyroid issues or diabetes. He was actually surprised when it came back diabetes.
 
Sorry for not responding, but I posted an update yesterday that hasn't appeared. Not sure what happened and hope this one gets through!

Firstly, thank you all for your honesty, concern and great advice. I truly appreciate it.

You are very correct to say we need to get a diagnosis and find out what we are really dealing with.

Secondly, an appointment will be made today (too early to call this a.m.) with the vet to get the tests done and if diabetes get the insulin injections going. After speaking with the clinic yesterday they apparently have one vet in particular who has a lot of experience with diabetes so we will be taking Alex to her.

I feel so much better taking this course of action and thank you all for your input. It clarified the issues for me

Will let you know what the test results are once we get them back. They apparently take 2 days.

In appreciation,

Gene
 
Good luck Gene!

This is a good way to see if the vet is really up to date-
Insulin- SHOULD be Lantus, Levemir, or PZI (slight shortage until the end of the year). If they give you Canisilin (made for dogs) or Humulin N or R then they really aren't up to date. We have papers that they can read. Ask for a prescription of pens for the first two.

Food- NO dry food- EVER. Canned food under 10% carbs is the way to go and you can buy them cheaper (and have more variety) at a pet store or the grocery store. Here are two links that others have done the research for:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... hYXc#gid=0 (called Hobo's List- and the newest)
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html (called binky's list)

Home testing- a human meter is fine for cats. Yes, it may read lower than the pet meter but we have already taken that into account. Since vets charge you $10+ per test so they can make it back double with one curve day so they can afford the $2 test strip and the $150 meter. Normal pet owners, however, have finances to consider. Use a human meter instead- the cheapest strips available are for the Relion meters- Confirm/Micro ($15) is 100 for $36 at Walmart and cheaper than that at ADW (250/$72). They have a new Prime ($10) that has even cheaper strips- something like 50/$9. We don't need to know the exact number your cat is (pet meters sometimes read 20pts higher) just getting a consistent number is what we need. Some people use the Bayer Contour or the One-Touch Ultra.

Freestyle Lite with the butterfly on the strips haven't work well for cats and IN THE PAST neither did the generic brands with TRUE in the name. This may have changed but we don't really know as there haven't been anyone to do a comparative study on them lately.

Heather
 
gene said:
Sorry for not responding, but I posted an update yesterday that hasn't appeared. Not sure what happened and hope this one gets through!
Click to expand...

If you type a response and hit submit at the same time someone else has replied, the message goes into a view giving you time to read the other person's response and change yours before submitting. That could be what happened to your previous response, you may not have realized that another reply came in. If you see your response as written, then you have to press submit again, if your response did go through it would take you to another screen, can't recall exactly what it reads but something that asks if you want to return to the thread.


Edit to add: now that I submitted this, the message reads "This message has been posted successfully." Once you see that you know your message is there.
 
Hi Gene!

Thanks for checking in here. You definitely asked a fair question - if Alex really has diabetes, I think your non-cruel options include treating him or having him put down. Slow starvation is a rough way to go. The good news is, a lot of diabetic cats go into remission. If short term treatment is an option, there's a good chance he'll get well enough to be a diet-controlled outdoor cat. Give him a scritch for me. xx

Lori
 
Bless you for taking in this kitty and helping him. This kind of action makes you an earth angel :-D You've already received so many wonderful, thoughtful responses that I'll just add that as for the Purina DM, there is better, less expensive canned food you can feed him and you can find links to the list on the board. There are so many experienced FD caregivers here who will help and support you. I was fortunate to find this board when my kitty was diagnosed. And again fortunate in that he went into remission within a couple of months later with the insight and help I received here. FYI, a great link is catinfo.org, Dr. Lisa Pierson's site which is chocked full of info. Will be rooting for you and Mr. Kitty!
 
Gene

Thank you so much for taking in Alex and deciding to help the guy out by not only finding out exactly what you are dealing with, but also should it be diabetes deciding to treat him. I have two diabetics that I adopted as diabetics...Maxwell went into remission very quickly and will celebrate 2 years insulin free on November 1st of this year. My other girl Autumn went 10+ months without her previous owner treating her diabetes before I adopted her. I've only had her since April but already she is a different cat, not only has her dose gone down from 1.5u of Lantus bid to just under .5u bid (so I think there is a good chance by spring she will also be off insulin) her appearance is drastically different, and she like your Alex is also an elderly cat, her exact age is unknown but I'm guessing she is right around 15 give or take a year or two.

But I thought I would show you a couple of pictures of her to show you just how much Alex can change with just a little tweak to his diet, a little insulin and testing him at home. :-D

This was Autumn just days after she arrived I had to have her shaved because she was so matted from not being able to groom herself...she weighed less than 6lbs


This is Autumn 5 months later she now is still on the slim side weighing in at 14 lbs (she is a long and tall girl) and her fur is about half grown back


Thank you again to opening your heart and home to Alex. If we can help you in anyway just shout.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 

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I just had a call from the vet and they said Alex is NOT diabetic! He is to come off the Purina DM right away and revert back to regular food at once.

We have an appointment to talk with the vet tomorrow to find out the full story as there are obviously other health issues going on, but I am so relieved that we won't have to go the insulin route with him - for both our sakes.

I cannot thank you enough for encouraging us to get him tested and sharing your advice and wonderful stories about the cats you love and take such good care of. You are an amazing group of people.

I'll post when I know more about what is going on with Alex.

Sincerely,

Gene
 
Gene,

If there is one thing you get from all of these lovely helpful posters PLEASE!!! Get the kitty off the dry food and onto the wet. Just doing that made a world of difference with mine, I have 8 ranging from 1 year to 18 years. My old man is the diabetic and just the change in food got him 'off the juice' as we say. Never ever dry no more!
 
I am glad you did the test to find out that he is not diabetic. I wish you the Best Of Luck tomorrow and with the next tests. You are a good person to be helping Alex to be as healthy as he can be in his golden years.
 
Bless you, Gene, for taking Alex into your loving home. I hope that with your loving care, (and appropriate medical treatment for what ails him), he will become bright and healthy again very quickly. It is possible to treat most feline illnesses out there to some extent and provide a kitty a good quality of life.

Four years and four months ago we adopted Sebastian on his 'last day' from Lake Dallas Animal Control. He was an older, (but not elderly), kitty. Within the week, he was diagnosed with stage 3 Mast Cell cancer - something that is a death sentence; generally sooner rather than later. With love and care, Sebastian lived with us, comfortably, until he was ready to cross the bridge last Saturday. He brought great joy into our family for the time that we had him with us. I am certain that Alex will do the same for you and your family.

All the best to you,

~M
 
Just got back from the Vet and Alex has early stage kidney disease. No diabetes and no thyroid issues - whew!

He is now on a very wet form of food specifically for cats with kidney problems and will be taking potassium pills when they come in.

The 3 vets at the clinic were all very surprised by this outcome - they were all convinced Alex was diabetic - but testing is better than guessing!

Thanks so much for your inspriational stories, advice and words of encouragement.

Bless you all for what you do not only for your kitties, but others' as well.

Gene
 
The key for kidney disease is low phosphorus - inexpensive canned food such as friskies special diet - pate style - is good for this and diabetic friendly too.

While your cat may not be diabetic, it's still best to follow the low carb food regimen to help ensure he doesn't become diabetic.

Also, be sure to add at least 1/3-1/2 can of water to the food. This will help keep the kidneys flush and working.
 
I wish you The Best Of Luck, too. You're a good person for taking in Alex. I hope you have many happy years together.
 
Hi Gene. I'm glad Alex is not diabetic! I just wanted to add one thing... my Hobbs is also CKD (But also diabetic) and while he's on the Kidney food, he hates it. HATES it. Refuses to eat more than just a little bit. Please keep in mind that a lot of cats don't like the kidney food and may refuse to eat it. I read somewhere that CKD cats are more likely to die of starvation than the kidney disease because their well meaning owners think that they HAVE to eat the kidney food. So if Alex doesn't like one, there's others to try. I ended up compromising and mixing Hobbs' kidney food with a low carb, low phosphorous "regular" food and he eats all of it. My vet agreed that this was the way to go.
 
Hi Gene and welcome!

Kudos to you for taking in this ball of love and caring for him. Great news that it's not diabetes, but I will echo what others have said. The canned food seems to cure a myriad of problems. I have two cats with kidney issues - and feeding them canned with water added in, seems to have helped them tremendously - and it's more affordable than some of the foods they were on previously. Dr. Lisa at catinfo.org has some great food info on her website - definitely worth a read. And also Binky's or Hobo's food lists will have columns that (in addition to carbs) provide numbers on phospherus and other elements to consider when choosing foods.

Good luck with this and thank you for what you're doing!

Lu-Ann
 
No worries about Alex not eating the kidney specific food, he pretty much eats anything - LOL !

The kidney food from the vet is expensive, so I'll be looking at the suggestions you have made and see if we can find something easier on the pocketbook.

Gene
 
Well that's good. I have bought from petflow.com but recently learned that you can buy Rx food from Petsmart if they have a Banfield. You just need to have the Rx from your vet and Petsmart will give you a card to use that says it's ok to buy the Rx food. Buying online was not cheaper with shipping but it was more convenient for me b/c my vet didn't always have what I wanted or if they did, they'd only have a few cans and I really didn't want to be there once or twice a week, ya know?
 
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