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Sunshine and BA

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HI!!!!

My 18 year old kitty likely has diabetes. She was tested at vet during routine testing 2 weeks ago. BG was 250. Fruitosamine (sp?) was 260. Vet thought stress reaction. I tested kitty BG yesterday 290 2 hours after eating, glucose and protein in urine. Fasting BG this a.m was 243 and again glucose and protein in urine. No Ketones. I have emailed the vet the results, trying to stay calm yet feel scared for my baby!!!! One of my concerns is I live alone, work and am unable to return home during the work day........gone 7:30-5:20ish. Can single kitty mom's really manage diabetes and keep them stable. Any other's here with elder kitties with well managed diabetes!

Thanks,

Sunshine
 
Hi Sunshine
Weclome!

First take a breath. There are many people here that work during the day and still manage
the diabetes.
The traffic on the board is a bit lighter at night, even though there are people here
from everywhere.
I am new here since November.
There will be others with more experience who will come and ask you a lot of questions.
You do not mention if you started insulin and what kind. What type of food do you feed...
You are in the right place to get the help that you need.
Hang on and you will get the help.
 
Sunshine said:
HI!!!!

Can single kitty mom's really manage diabetes and keep them stable. Any other's here with elder kitties with well managed diabetes!
Click to expand...

Yes you will be able to manage your cat's diabetes. I am single and work similar hours.

Since you are hometesting, that will help immensely. Can you tell us more about your cat's treatment? What insulin are you using and what dose? Also what are you feeding your cat.

Ideally, insulin should be given on a 12/12 schedule, but that is not always possible. You do have some flexibilty of an hour or so either way. You just do not want to give insulin less than 10 hours from the previous shot. Testing before every shot will confirm that it is safe to give the insulin.

My cats are usually fed about 6:00 - 6:30 in the morning and then close to 7:00 or so at night. I feed mine canned food. At one time I had two dabetic cats at the same time and found this type of schedule gave me plenty of time for testing, feeding and giving insulin.
 
OK, I'm trying to resist saying Good Morning, Sunshine but I just can't!

Those are not bad numbers so I must ask what your cat has been eating. If it's dry food and you caught this early I would try a week of proper diet before anything else. Start by reading www.catinfo.org , then consult Janet's charts and find some foods you can afford that your cat will eat. Do not consider the so-called 'prescription' foods from your vet, there are far better choices.

It sounds like you are testing blood at home, so that's how you monitor. Without that 390 yesterday I would be tempted to write off the numbers from your vet as stress. Fructosamine numbers do not directly correlate with glucometer numbers and I hope someone with more experience in comparing the two will check in to comment on the meaning of the fructosamine numbers.

As for your question about care, most people here are on a similar schedule, so no worries.

Do take time to learn about insulins before your vet prescribes one. Many vets are not aware of the full range of choices and lack data on how the newer insulins perform. And the more you are able to absorb about feline diabetes, the better for both you and your cat.

Gia & Quirk (GA)

Guilt trips are a detour from life
 
From what my vet told me about Oscar's fructosamine levels, 280 should be in a normal range, which means that the levels have not been off for long. Oscar's was 480 and I was told that was just outside the acceptable range. If you didn't hometest, I would say it was stress, but your home numbers are high too. I would start with a diet change (if you haven't already), and see how the numbers change after a week or so.
 
Sounds like you've caught it early. If you can get your baby off dry food entirely and onto some nice low-carb canned food (we have a list of good ones), and keep testing, you might be able to avoid the insulin thing altogether, or do it for a short time only. Good luck!

Ask more about diet and read the links in my signature.
 
Welcome Sunshine :YMHUG:
You have come to the purrfect place! There are people from all over the world here at all times of the day. Ask plenty of questions; you will get great advice (from those who know first hand how you are feeling because we have all been there) ;-)

I also work during the day so our schedule was AM/PM feed and shot 12 hours apart (6am and 6pm). Of course life does get in the way sometimes and schedules may change, but it can still be done. There are ways to shift your testing/feeding/shot time as needed.

Good luck and I look forward to seeing the answers to some of the questions others asked. You are way ahead of the game with the hometesting!! Way to go!! :thumbup

edited because I cannot spell
 
Hi there,

Welcome to the Board.

And just to make you feel good, sure you can care for your sugar baby. Like you, I'm single, work full time and am gone from 9 to 7 during the week. I have and care for 5 diabetic cats - 2 adoped and 3 fosters.

I test, feed and shoot in the morning. Same thing at night. Try to keep to a 12/12 schedule. Usually it works.

Once you get used to testing, it takes very little time. The shots take less time. Wet food from Binky's List completes the picture. I get my sugar kitties to the vet 2x a year, just to keep up with dental and check on other blood work.

Hope this helps,

Claudia
 
CJleo, Paige, Jen and Squeak, Steve and Jock, Kelly and Oscar, Gia and Quirk, Lisa and Witn and Randi and Max, Thank you so much for encouragement and sharing of Wisdom.

My kitty has chronic pancreatitis/IBD for almost 3 years now. Food seemed to trigger her first pancreatic attack and the road to finding a food tolerable has been challenging. She stayed near stable and improved pancreatitis on Royal Canin Duck and Pea, canned mostly with a little kibble during the day when I worked. RC appears to have changed the formula to what appears to be increased fat which is not good for the pancreatitis spiking her pancreatitis. I've been changing to reduce fat by mixing the RC Duck and Pea with WD. I hand feed or syringe feed due to food aversion associated with the initial pancreatitis that was not treated well. I know RX foods are somewhat controversy and I have expressed some clear opinion with RC. I had UC Davis formulate a diet for me which ended up disappointing and did not permit syringe feeding. The food has not appeared to effect her Glucose or urine protein best I can tell.unless cumulative..That said, I know pea is a high carb product and is unlikely desirable for diabetes. I suspect I need to explore possible alternative grain free foods but must be extremely careful because of chronic pancreatitis
Current diabetes symptoms in addition to BG elevation/Glucose and Protein in urine are: increased appeptite inconsistent with inapeptite with pancreatitis, weight loss increased urination, tired and maybe weakness. She has been wobbly when walking at times too! Kidney values are high normal.
Our vet is an internal medicine vet who diligently tries to address issues. She spent an hour on the phone tonight to discuss options and answer my zillion questions. Oral meds were discussed, vet doesn't seem to feel they are an idea choice because of tummy upset risks with oral meds and pancreas may be sick enough not to improve function. We discussed admitting Blue Angel to the hospital on Thursday where a low dose of long acting (can't remember the names of insulin used, and monitor for response.) to assess response and reach therapetic dose if insulin is tolerated. She recommends caution to prevent hypoglycemia and said the dose will be likely be very small.

Am I reading correctly some are thinking the BG numbers are not concerning enough to warrant treatment with insulin. My thoughts are elevated BG, gluose in urine/protein and symptoms indicate treatment, do you think I'm premature in my thoughts. I'm hoping we have caught this and treat before a crisis. I'm not sure she has the strength to endure a true crisis.
Again, thanks for the wonder welcome...and concern....I appreciate your help in thinking through responding to my kitty's needs.
Thanks,
Sunshine
 
Hi Sunshine

Welcome to the Family!

You've come to the best place for help, even though it may seem that way YOU ARE NOT ALONE! Everyone here is so caring and willing to help you and you baby with any advice you need.

Have you considered home testing? It is quick and easy to do, and even if your vet doesn't recommend it, he or she will be happy with any results you are able to obtain.
Here is a few links to check out:
http://Pearlthediabeticcat.blogspot.com
http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/harry/bgtest.htm
http://www.catingo.org

Also diet and exercise is very important and will make a world of difference in your cats general health. Cats need a species specific diet, a quality canned food that is grain free. Prescription diets are expensive and do not meet the nutritional needs of you furry friend. Not to mention most cats find it unpalatable and won't touch them.Check out Janet and Binky's list to choose the right food that will fit you cats needs without breaking your wallet.

Best of Luck
Terri
 
Hi there

I'm not going to give you advice on diet because you're already getting professional advice and have a lot to balance there. The one thing I will say is that some people find very good success with IBD with raw food diets, but I'm not sure how well that works with pancreatitis. Another person you can consult with is Dr Lisa from www.catinfo.org

I would suggest that you have to feed around the IBD/pancreatitis and manage the diabetes secondly, which may mean insulin/increased insulin. And as for your question, 200s means diabetic and yes, you should seriously consider starting on a very low dose of insulin like lantus or pzi.

Jen
 
Am I reading correctly some are thinking the BG numbers are not concerning enough to warrant treatment with insulin.
Click to expand...

No, you are not reading correctly Sunshine. I believe the posters said that the BG numbers at the vet, combined with the fructosamine level, indicated a possible stress reaction, but that your BG readings at home confirmed a diabetic condition.

Some have suggested that a diet change (which could be problematic with a P-itis/IBD cat) could being her into remission, perhaps without insulin or with a short course of insulin.

But P-itis/IBD trumps diabetes, and you have to be more concerned with managing her P-itis and IBD than getting her into diabetic remission. Therefore you will likely have to stay with higher carb, lower fat food.

Old cats can get along well as diabetics. My Ennis is a 3.5 year diabetic veteran, and he is 17. But, he isn't dealing with any other health issues (other than severe dental disease).

A single, working person can treat a diabetic cat. Many of us here do it. Just remember that life sometimes gets in the way of schedules, but you do the best you can. Cats are very durable creatures.
 
Venita and the Boyz, Teri and Tanda and Jen and Squeak and others....hope I haven't forgot to acknowledge anyone. Everyone has been so very nice and helpful. Thank you!!!!!
Thanks for clarification about BG numbers and UA numbers being consistent with diabetes. I started to second guess myself and became a little frightened of considering insulin treatment. I agree the pancreatitis and IBD must stay stable. It's been a hard road of work to get the food sorted out and it is a process ongoing. Her last fPLI for pancreatic was creeping up again, but she is not showing any symptoms of acute pancreatitis.
The plan for now is I will make a schedule for feedings and medications (injectable famatodine) for the vets to keep her on the home schedule for feeding and medication. I'll prepared food in seal-a-meal bags to warm in hot water and feed. I'm hoping I can settle her into her "Resort" so she has the familiarities of home, kiss her goodbye and try not to leave in tears. I've not left her anywhere since she was spayed 16 years ago. She's be tested, examined and started on insulin and tested for response!!!!! I'll pick her up Friday after work. Treat and monitor over the weekend. I'm thinking about asking the vet to run an in-house panel of blood to check creatinine, BUN and glucose. I've worried about dehydration and gave 50ml of LRS ringers the last 2 nights. She is so easy to give fluids too and seems to feel good after getting them. I just want to be sure she doesn't get dehydrated.

Sunsine
 
Why is she going to be at the clinic? It doesn't work to determine insulin requirements at the vet clinic...???

Sorry to scare you but some clinics try to do this and it just doesn't work. It takes time to find the right dose.

Oh, and in a previous post, I forgot to say that spilling protein doesn't have anything to do with diabetes; spilling glucose does however.

Jen

ps You CAN do this :-D
 
Jen & Squeak said:
Why is she going to be at the clinic? It doesn't work to determine insulin requirements at the vet clinic...??? Sorry to scare you but some clinics try to do this and it just doesn't work. It takes time to find the right dose.
Oh, and in a previous post, I forgot to say that spilling protein doesn't have anything to do with diabetes; spilling glucose does however. Jen ps You CAN do this :-D
Click to expand...

Jen,
Vet said she is concerned for a hypo response to insulin and wants to monitor response to insulin. I think her primary concern is being able to repond to a hypo response to insulin.....and maybe the fragile state of my kitty. I'm not totally oppose to starting this way as she will be monitored and not home alone. Our vet has been a jewel in everything else so far...and I live in the land of less than impressive vets. If no problem, I'll pick her up later Thursay.......Ah, spilling protein is not related to diabetes.......ok, showing my ignorance here: can there be muscle breakdown caused by diabetes, if so does that cause protein in urine or is that where the Keytones come in. I know I'll be able to manage her as I've kept her going in the midst of the pancreatitis challenge for 3 years....I'm just a little more scared of diabetes and insulin (but feeling more reassured, thanks) and the fact she now has another health problem. I'm so totally attached to this little sweety and want her to feel the best she can in her golden years.......she makes my heart glow!!!!!

Sunshine
 
Well...it is your call. Depending on how she is at the clinic, it may or may not be stressful. If it is stressful though, stress MAY inflate bgs and make it appear like she needs more insulin than she really does. This can be problematic. Is she staying over night and if so is she monitored over night?

Spilling protein means there is a kidney issue; more than that I cannot tell as I've little experience in that area.

Let us know how things go

Jen
 
Jen & Squeak said:
Well...it is your call. Depending on how she is at the clinic, it may or may not be stressful. If it is stressful though, stress MAY inflate bgs and make it appear like she needs more insulin than she really does. This can be problematic. Is she staying over night and if so is she monitored over night? Spilling protein means there is a kidney issue; more than that I cannot tell as I've little experience in that area. Let us know how things go
Jen
Click to expand...
The vet is not willing to start insulin on an outpatient basis. I'm hoping past experience will predict how this goes. So far, she is pretty laid back at the vet center. She is used to regular abdominal ultrasounds and being handled by the vet/techs. They seem very considerate of her senior status. When I take her in, I'm with her for everything except an x-ray. She is very calm. Last visit BP 145 and her BG was same at vet's as home. I plan to check BG before taking her in. One of the techs working Thursday came to my house 3 times a day to take care of my cats when I had surgery in August. I had her come after I came home from hospital to give me a few days to recuperate. She was awesome with them and followed my feeding/medication regime perfectly. So, I'm hoping she doesn't get super stressed out as I obviously won't be there with her. Her vet stressed concern for hypo so I think she'll end up being ultra conservative rather than dosing to high. The vet clinic is a 24 hour emergency center staffed with vet specialists. So if she stays Thursday night, there are vets and techs onsite awake. I would not leave her overnight unsupervised. She has been a patient there for almost 2 years with the internal med vet because of the pancreatitis. Thus far, I've had very good services with this vet after dismissing several prior.
Sunshine.
 
Fair enough, sounds like a good place and that your cat is happy there. Just an FYI though, insulin is almost always done on an outpatient basis; there are veterinary journal articles that support hometesting over clinic testing, and even the Canadian Veterinary Assoc supports it. THe thing is, regulation does not happen over a few days at a clinic. Each dose needs time to settle, so unless you are keeping her there for potentially months, she has to be treated at home in her normal conditions...

Jen
 
Just chiming in here with a welcome and support. My Morris has been diabetic for going on 9 years (he will be 15 next month) and during that entire time up til this past August I was employed full-time and enjoyed a very active social life so it is definitely doable.

My Morris is going through what we believe is IBD right now (started Jan 3rd) and I can tell you that the diabetes is a no brainer compared to the IBD. How fortunate you are to have that excellent vet clinic...I have had 3 vets over the last and a half...one wants to PTS, one knows nothing about IBD and the other one is so frazzled she can't think straight. About to try a 4th on Friday and see if that's a charm or not.

Even tho your vet sounds great, I have to agree with the others that the regulation is not going to happen overnight or even over a month for that matter, especially with the new gentler drugs like Lantus and Levemir. Since you are home testing, you are already halfway there!

Good luck, whatever you decide...and you have found a valuable resource here on this board.
 
Jen & Squeak said:
Fair enough, sounds like a good place and that your cat is happy there. Just an FYI though, insulin is almost always done on an outpatient basis; there are veterinary journal articles that support hometesting over clinic testing, and even the Canadian Veterinary Assoc supports it. THe thing is, regulation does not happen over a few days at a clinic. Each dose needs time to settle, so unless you are keeping her there for potentially months, she has to be treated at home in her normal conditions...
Jen
Click to expand...

Jen, thanks again for hanging in there with me. I don't doubt home regulation could be the beginning place of treatment. I really think the vet is concerned about a hypo response verses regulation in hospital setting, and she did draw this line in her treatment recommendation. She will support home testing and will consult. She already mentioned urine stips. She responded quickly to my emailed home BG and UA testing. She has done so with the pancreatitis and most likley saved her life. I have been unbelievably involved in the pancreatic treatment, I can't imagine that will change with diabetes........Now another question and not sure if I should put this on another thread or not.
I tested BG before feeding this evening with BG results of 224. So far her highest as been 290 about 2. 5 hours after feeding. This is her lowest BG since I started testing on Saturday. Is there a BG "number" where insulin treatment usually begins and where it's not. The only thing different between this result and ones earlier this week is I have been giving her 50ml suq q fluids. This makes me question if she has been a little dehydrated and running a little higher BG numbers.........again I'm really new at this and may be bargaining here, I just want to be sure I'm doing what I need to do.

Sunshine
 
Brenda and Morris said:
Just chiming in here with a welcome and support. My Morris is going through what we believe is IBD right now (started Jan 3rd) and I can tell you that the diabetes is a no brainer compared to the IBD. How fortunate you are to have that excellent vet clinic...I have had 3 vets over the last and a half...one wants to PTS, one knows nothing about IBD and the other one is so frazzled she can't think straight. About to try a 4th on Friday and see if that's a charm or not. Even tho your vet sounds great, I have to agree with the others that the regulation is not going to happen overnight or even over a month for that matter, especially with the new gentler drugs like Lantus and Levemir. Since you are home testing, you are already halfway there!
Good luck, whatever you decide...and you have found a valuable resource here on this board.
Click to expand...

Brenda, Thank you for your welcoming and support. I am so relieved when I hear others are managing diabetic cats well and work. Sorry you are having a hard time finding a helpful vet. I've been there also, too many times and it's had a tragic outcome on one occassion! I am extremely fortunate with my vet nowand equally convinced she is rare. I don't think her primary issue is regulation but is concerned about a hypo response and wants to monitor.

I tested BG before feeding this evening with BG results of 224. So far her highest as been 290 about 2. 5 hours after feeding. This is her lowest BG since I started testing on Saturday. Is there a BG "number" where insulin treatment usually begins and where it's not. The only thing different between this result and ones earlier this week is I have been giving her 50ml suq q fluids. This makes me question if she has been a little dehydrated and running a little higher BG numbers.........again I'm really new at this and may be bargaining here, I just want to be sure I'm doing what I need to do. Any thoughts about this...I also posted this in my respondse to Jen.
Thanks for caring about my sweetie, she is a light of my life.

Sunshine
 
Yes, you don't need insulin if her number is always below about 130.

But here's where we've also discovered something valuable to know -- insulin is absolutely required for any cat with high blood sugar for more than a day or two, since that high blood sugar itself is causing damage that will prevent the pancreas from fixing it.

Many diabetic cats, if well-treated at the beginning of their diagnosis, go on to remission within 8-10 weeks, and don't need insulin after that. But it doesn't work the other way -- you can't hope it goes away on its own. Excellent info at this page: http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6importantfactors.htm

Quick rough numbers to know:

Below 40 -- dangerously low
50-90 -- normal fasting for non-diabetic
90-130 -- normal right after food
100-180 -- good target range for diabetics
 
Steve & Jock said:
Yes, you don't need insulin if her number is always below about 130. But here's where we've also discovered something valuable to know -- insulin is absolutely required for any cat with high blood sugar for more than a day or two, since that high blood sugar itself is causing damage that will prevent the pancreas from fixing it. Many diabetic cats, if well-treated at the beginning of their diagnosis, go on to remission within 8-10 weeks, and don't need insulin after that. But it doesn't work the other way -- you can't hope it goes away on its own. Excellent info at this page: http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6importantfactors.htm
Quick rough numbers to know:
Below 40 -- dangerously low
50-90 -- normal fasting for non-diabetic
90-130 -- normal right after food
100-180 -- good target range for diabetics
Click to expand...

Steve & Jock
Thanks for the info especially the glucose ranges. This is exactly what I needed. B.A. is at vet's insulin was started today. I just posted today's events on my thread BG: Confused. Let me know if you have thoughts to share.
 
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