Another newbie saying hi

Status
Not open for further replies.
N

Nibblescat

Member Since 2012
Just wanted to introduce ourselves!
Nibbles is currently in the hospital with DKA--should be coming home today. I've bought my glucometer, lancets and test strips and am ready to go once he comes home. He has steadily improved since being hospitalized Monday night (and of course everyone there loves him), but this morning I got a call saying he's bright and alert, but less interested in food than he has been previous days. Of course this sets me off into worry mode. Am remaining calm until I hear from the vet with my mid-morning check in.

Can't wait to absorb your knowledge.
Emily (mom)
 
Hello, and a warm welcome to you, Emily (and Nibbles)!

Sorry to hear that Nibbles is in hospital. And I hope he'll be back safely with you soon.

Well done, Emily, for already have a blood testing kit ready. That's fantastic.

What insulin is Nibbles going to be on, and what dose? And what food is he eating? (Sorry, don't want to overwhelm you with questions, so that's probably enough for now.)

FDMB is a great place for info and support. Ask any questions that you want to. This is an international forum (though mostly USA) so there's usually someone around. :smile:
 
Thanks for the welcome :)

Looks like he's going to be on glargine and the vet mentioned 1mmol doses 2x daily, but I won't know until I get a final set of "take home" instructions from the vet. He's probably going to be on D/M and get a new dry food for supplementing (the vet said that he thinks he found one Nibbles likes).

Nibbles and I are both from the US (NYC!), but we recently moved to Toronto for my new husband, so we're always excited to talk to Americans!

I'm midway through nursing school, so while all of this makes logical sense to me it's still hard to be unemotional about my little furbaby. Most recent report from the vet is that he still has traces of ketones, and has a diminished interest in food from yesterday so he may need to stay one more night. Hope I quickly get over the pain he's going to be in from all the needle pricks and testing, lord knows I'm less worried about people since I know it doesn't hurt! :-D
 
Good insulin, good dose, fantastic you will be testing at home.

We urge a diet of wet low carb food. A vet explains why here: www.catinfo.org. We freeze the wet food and let the cat graze while it thaws or use an automatic feeder to give the food during the day and night. (it is important to not feed in the 2 hours before you test so the number isn't food influenced.). But be careful and monitor if you go to an all wet diet. When we took Oliver's dry completely away, he went down 100 points overnight; it can make a big difference in insulin needs.

Since he is a DKA cat, I would buy ketone strips at the pharmacy and test his urine often until his numbers and eating settles into a good pattern.

Keep reading. Ask questions. We'd love to help you and Nibbles.
 
Welcome. You will find this site very helpful. Everyone here is great

First thing you need to do is transition Nibbles from the dry to wet food when you get him home. I myself use Wellness Grain Free which you can pick up from Pet Valu and other specialty pet stores. There are cheaper ones out there you can use but im not sure which ones as i don't use them, maybe someone else here from Ontario can advise. it has less then 10% carbs, Diabetic cats need less then 10% carbs in their diet.
How old is Nibbles? Which end of the city do you live in? I am in Toronto East Beaches.
 
He's been on Wellness in the past, and liked it. The vet said Nibbles is seeming to prefer a dry diabetic food to the wet, does anyone else find that? They said they're going to send me home with a few options for him food wise to see what he likes best. Does the dry diabetic still have more carbs than the wet?

He's 8, and we live on the other end of Toronto, near Queen's Quay and Bathurst. I often bike over to the Beaches, though.
 
Yes, any dry food contains way more carbs then is good for a diabetic cat. I think vets are supposed to push the dry food because they sell it and are probably in contracts with the dry food companies. Dry foods are held together with starch(corn etc), starches are carbs.... so i'm not sure how vets think that dry food is the best option for a diabetic cat.

my vet sent home with me some of the dry d/m food in the beginning, but i still switched to the wet. She went really low one morning so i gave her a few of the dry d/m and it shot her BG right up to 30... so that right there says something.
 
None of the Hills M/D prescription diets, dry or wet, are low enough in carbs for a diabetic cat. The only prescription food that is low enough in carbs for a diabetic is canned Purina DM, but it's pretty much the same thing as Purina's Fancy Feast Pates (Classic varietys), so you're really just paying an inflated price for the label. Keep in mind that vets make money of prescription diets, so they have a vested interest in getting you to purchase one. However, you can get better quality premium low carb canned foods for less than what you'll be paying for the prescription, so that's why we don't recommend feeding the canned Purina DM.

You'll want to ditch all of the dry food--not only is it all too high in carbs, it causes chronic dehydration in cats (cats evolved in the desert; they never make up for the loss of moisture in dry food at the water dish because they only get thirsty after they are dehydrated). One of the ingredients for ketoacidosis is dehydration, so you want to get as much moisture in him as possible.

Here's a link to the nutrition values of many different cat foods: http://catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf. You just want to pick something under 10% carbs.

Here's some Canadian suggestions that I stole from another post:
Ry & Scooter said:
Oh - you're in Canada! My bad, I missed that. You don't need a prescription for insulin, just pop over to any pharmacy and ask for it. Walmart and Costco's pharms I found to be the cheapest. 5 pens should be around $105 I think.

Me personally I am a bargain hunter. I buy whatever's cheap/on sale. I'll sum it up like this:

1. Cheap economical foods, perhaps not the best quality (byproducts etc)... large 13oz cans are cheapest, usually around $1 per can:

Friskies pates and special diet (they all have rice so they are slightly higher in carbs but still OK)
Special Kitty pates (Walmart's food - read the ingredients, some flavors like turkey and giblets have corn/rice - this is a Canadian thing)
Whiskas (large purple cans - my cats wouldn't eat this, it had a weird texture)
President's Choice Finicky Cat (Sold at Superstore, etc.)
Western Family (ground style? sold at Overwaitea, etc.)
Grreat Choice (Petsmart's brand)

2. Mid priced, slightly higher quality foods - these are usually 3oz cans and range from .40 to .60 each

Fancy Feast (pates - Canada's equivalent to "classics")
Special Kitty Select (Walmart's FF equivalent)
President's Choice Finicky Cat Gourmet (FF equivalent)
Western Family Gourmet (FF Equivalent)
Whiskas recloseable trays

3. High quality, slightly more expensive foods - come in all sizes

Wellness Grain Free varieties (independent stores and also Petsmart)
Merrick's Before Grain line and Cowboy Cookout, Surf n Turf, and Southern Delight (mostly sold at independent stores)
EVO 95% (these are pretty fatty, might cause stomach upset)


Of course there are more, but these are the ones I find easiest to come by in stores. Here's a bigger food chart but keep in mind they might not all be available in Canada. Right now my cats are on Whiskas recloseable trays as they were .50 at Walmart again so I stocked up. Before they were on Mixed Grill Grreat Choice from Petsmart with a little bit of Merrick's Cowboy Cookout and Wellness Turkey every now and then when I could afford it. :lol:
Click to expand...



I would also urge you to check out the Lantus (glargine) insulin support group: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9, and read the stickies there, specifically New to the Group, Proper Handling and Storage, and about the dosing protocol for Lantus. I found that my vet had nearly everything right by giving me a good insulin (Lantus), recommended low carb commercial canned foods, and told me I had to home test. However, she was not having me test as frequently as Lantus requires (3 times a day, once before each shot and then once in the middle of a cycle), and she was not dosing the insulin properly (adjustments should be made in .25u-.5u increments depending on the daily mid-cycle number). Also, here's a link to help you set up a spreadsheet, so that you can chart your home testing numbers for both your vet, and for the experienced Lantus users here, if you ever need dosing advice here: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207
 
Julia you're a wealth of knowledge and I am overwhelmed with happiness at this new-found info. Thank you!!!!!

Nibbles LOVES the fancy feast pates (turns his nose up at the grilled), and they're definitely inexpensive. He's been eating those for a while now--glad to know that they're ok for him. We were supplementing his wet food with dry (maybe 1/4c a day), I wonder if that's what caused the DKA since he was already eating a low carb wet food?
I'll head to Walmart for the insulin, too, Shoppers (think Canadian CVS or Rite Aid) tends to be pretty pricey.
 
my bast kitty just came back from the vet with the same issue + a uti. So we are in a similiar boat. I had some issues the first night because I didn't have a meter yet. so I encourage you to get a meter quickly so you are ready! I tested mine on myself to see how big of a blood drop i needed and that has helped when i am testing Bast.

It is scary at first but I am getting the hang of it all. Having your kitty Purring on your lap/shoulder is worth all the getting up early and testing!

Read all you can on the boards- these people are very helpful!
Luck!
Misty & Bast
 
Best of luck to you Misty (and adorable Bast!), I got a meter yesterday, and lancets and test strips! I'm prepped!

I've been reading about gauge sizes for the needles, and just trying to get all the info I can so having everyone here has been so helpful in just a few short hours. I'm sure I'll be a wreck the first week or so, but it'll get better and I'll be a pro in no time (I hope!).
 
Nibblescat said:
I've been reading about gauge sizes for the needles, and just trying to get all the info I can
Click to expand...

You want to get .3cc, 30-31g, 5/16" (8mm) syringes with half unit markings. I'm not sure what the cheapest place in Canada is to get them, but in NY it's Walmart or Wegmans. For insulin, get a pack of the Lantus pens instead of the vial--the pens are a little more up front but save you a ton of money in the long run because you don't end up wasting most of the insulin like you do with the vial. And don't get the pen tip needles that they sell with the pens--you're going to draw insulin out of them just like you do a vial (see the instructions in the "proper handling and storage" link).

Nibblescat said:
Nibbles LOVES the fancy feast pates (turns his nose up at the grilled), and they're definitely inexpensive. He's been eating those for a while now--glad to know that they're ok for him. We were supplementing his wet food with dry (maybe 1/4c a day), I wonder if that's what caused the DKA since he was already eating a low carb wet food?
Click to expand...

The Fancy Feast Pates are great to feed a diabetic. That's what Bandit ate the entire time he was on insulin (I feed him Merricks now to help control his weight because it's lower fat, but he still gets the occasional can of Fancy Feast. :-) Even a little bit of dry food can cause blood glucose levels to be out of whack, especially if there's an infection or dental issues complicating things. DKA usually happens when a combination of 3 things happens--infection, dehydration, and high blood sugar. Since dry food can cause dehydration and high blood sugar, it might have been a factor. But the important thing is just that he not get any more, ever. Think of the dry food as kryptonite to Nibbles--once he recovers and likely gets into remission (which the large majority of cats do on a low carb, canned diet and Lantus when dosed according to the protocol), dry food will always likely affect his blood glucose levels in a negative way.

I think I read somewhere recently that there's also thought to be a connection between Pancreatitis and DKA (and we do see quite a few cats with both conditions here), so if your vet hasn't already tested for Pancreatitis, you might want to get that done, especially if an infection wasn't found and treated.

Honestly, though, I threw out all the dry food for both of my cats the day Bandit was diagnosed with diabetes (my other cat had kidney disease likely caused by eating dry food), and it was THE best decision I ever made for my cats. Despite what people think, it is not any more expensive or inconvenient to feed all canned food. If I'm not going to be home, I freeze it and stick it in my auto feeder, and when you take into account that cats eat less canned food than dry and go through less litter because they digest more of it, and when you factor in vet bills from all of the health issues dry food causes--well, you're paying less overall, even with a premium food like Merricks or Wellness. My monthly cat budget for Bandit is currently about 1/3 less than what it was before the canned diet, and that's including the cost of a premium canned food and test strips (but not insulin because he's in remission now). And he's just a much healthier cat today than he was before the diabetes diagnosis.
 
All I can say is - welcome aboard. The knowledge here is astounding. And no one ever yells.

I credit this board for extending the life of my cat a good two years. He was OTJ once I got him on the wet food.

Good luck with your little angel-puss.
 
Welcome! You will get all the info and help you will need from these wonderful people. Julia helped me with Tucker when I first joined this group.
Tucker and I were very lucky. Just by switching to an all canned low carb diet, Tucker was able to get his blood glucose levels down to normal, and get OTJ within a month! He strictly eats Fancy Feast classic chicken pate or ocean whitefish and tuna.
NO DRY FOOD OF ANY KIND ! He's gained back a couple of pounds and looks and acts healthy.
Even his sister Sophie is now on all canned food. She was a 20 lbs Maine coon. She's down to 15 lbs now and also looks wonderful. It probably extended her life too.
Listen to these wonderful people, and don't be afraid to ask ANY questions. Best wishes to you!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top