Always hungry!

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Chel

Member Since 2019
Hey fellow fur parents! So first off my name is Chelsea and I'm a bit new to message boards and reaching out online ^-^'

My boy Loki was diagnosed a couple months ago with feline diabetes and hes a bit underweight as a result. Treatment so far: he is on a schedule with an all protein diet (mostly chicken, eggs, pork). I am administering insulin and it seems to really be helping getting his sugars down now that the dose is figured out. BUT he is still experiencing the polyphagia really badly. No matter what I do he is obsessed with food day in and day out. I'm worried because it's really affecting his quality of life in spite of the progress we've made.

If anyone has any advice to help my little Loki I would be very grateful. I just want to see him feeling better and enjoying life again.
 
welcome, Chelsea and Loki

have you been home-testing his blood glucose? if not, let me recommend that you do so, as it is an ENORMOUS help in managing his diabetes -- and we are all here to help you any way we can

diet sounds great so far -- yes, we know about "the hungries" -- it's been a couple of months for us too, and Catcat spends most of his awake time, searching for food; he's still a bit underweight but at diagnosis he was a painfully skinny ten pounds, has slowly added a couple more

tell us more! what insulin are you on ? (we can direct you to the forum where others are on the same) -- where in the world are you? (most are in USA but we have people here from all over the world -- from Greece to Australia) --

if you set up a signature (click on your name at top right, scroll down), that will help remind us of who/what/where/how you are; and if you set up a spreadsheet (directions in the forum marked Tech Support, etc) then we will have even more information to assist, guide, recommend, empathize, and so on -- I would guess that your vet has helped you fine-tune the dosage, but we love to see what's been happening

thanks for joining us -- as a relative newbie, I wanted to chime in first, but there will be more coming along to help and encourage you
 
Thank you so much for the support and tips!

And yes I do test his glucose about 4-6 hrs after eating to make sure he is still doing well at his current dose. I have the Relion prime meter, and am using Novolin N 4u 2xdaily (on a bit of a tight budget -_- otherwise I'd prefer lantus)

And ya Loki was weighing in at 9lbs at the time of diagnosis and I'm trying so hard to balance his intake for weight gain and sugar control.

Currently I live in AZ in the US ^-^ but am on track to be relocating soon. All the more reason i need him under control before the move.

Thanks for the tips for the added information. For the signature and spreadsheet! Those are awesome ideas to help keep all these numbers organized and info at the ready!
 
Hi Chelsea! Welcome to the forum! :)

You said you were home testing - what number range does he typically stay at? 300s? 400s? The hunger is totally normal and once Loki gets regulated he'll start acting and eating more like himself. My girl was diagnosed in March and is just now pulling good-ish numbers and she currently eats around four 3oz cans of food a day! :eek: Normally she probably wouldn't even eat two. So don't worry, it's normal for him to still be hungry right now.

I agree with Candy, Linda is a huge help around the board, I'd follow her around and see what she has to say about things. Getting your spreadsheet with his info set up will help the members here be able to de-code it and see what's going on with Loki too.

We all totally feel you with the tight budget (aren't we all!) but if you find Novolin N isn't cutting it for Loki (it's common unfortunately) then you might consider either ProZinc or, since you mentioned Lantus, seeing about ordering it from the Canadian Pharmacy like everyone here does. In the US Lantus is about $300-$400 a vial but the Canadian pharmacy (if I understand correctly, I don't have personal experience with it) will sell 5 pens for $169 that act as "mini-vials" and since you don't have to open them all at once, the unopened pens have a two-year shelf life I think? It may even be cheaper in the long run, I would check with someone on that. Cats definitely get regulated faster on those long-acting insulins!
 
Hi Chelsea. You have already received some great advice. I am glad to see that you are testing. One suggestion is to also test before every shot. First this ensures that you know what his glucose levels are before giving insulin. You do not want to give insulin if the level is too low or you risk hypoglycemia. This can be very dangerous and sometimes deadly. The other reason is to find out what the glucose levels are that are not influenced by food or insulin. This will give you a better idea of his diabetes is really under control. If he is not that would probably be the reason he is always hungry. Right now his body is not processing food properly and causing his hunger.

I understand finances are tight, but if you could switch him over to Lantus or Levemir, one option is to buy the pens instead of the vial. One package of pens could be enough insulin to last 9 months or more depending on your dose. Plus if you are in the US, you can save money by buying it from Canada. Also a lot of pharmacies will sell individual pens.
 
Hey! :D

Normally when I test him in the 4-6 hr range (since getting the dose figured out) he stays between ~120-210, then before meals he is back up between 400-500. And thank you to Lisa and Witn for the reminder on the no shot thresholds ^-^ I just read about those as well on one of the other threads on here.

honestly the replies I have gotten from Panic and Candy/CatCat have really helped to put my mind a bit at ease. I've been worrying like crazy, because like you had mentioned with Panic about the eating habits, Loki loves his food but could always pace himself. Now it's never enough. It's all he cares about. I work long days 4 days out of the week and have just invested in an automatic feeder as well and have done some research on a potentially good dry food called Wysong Epigen 90. it has super high protein (63%) and it's structured with gelatin, hemicellulose, and vitamin E compounds. the feeder can be set as low as 5gm per use so I'm hoping giving him some very small snacks will help well.

I will also take a look at the lantus pens, if I am able I would definitely much rather be using that. and pens lasting that long would be well worth the investment as opposed to a new vial of novolin every 2-3mo (even with the walmart one). honestly I wasn't too thrilled about the vetsulin purely because of the needles. I know you have to be specific with what needles are used with what insulin and they were going to give me 25G to use with it. I didn't want to poke him with something so big when I know smaller ones work just as well and are far less painful.
 
(me with my mouth wide open) -- 25 gauge !!??!! -- the ones many vets supply for use with Vetsulin are 29 gauge -- brand names VetOne and UltiCare -- the U-40 syringes that go-with the U-40 insulins (Vetsulin/Caninsulin and ProZinc) are marked specifically for the dosages using those insulins; other insulins are U-100 insulins so of course the U-100 syringes are optimized for that ...

could they have offered you lancets of that size? even so, that's a bit much, have used some old old old lancets of 26 gauge, but have had success with lancets from 28 gauge to 31 gauge .. anything more than that makes me think Great Dane or ponies ...

yes. better to use syringes rather than "pen needles" -- it's a tradeoff -- supposedly the pen needles give exact dosage, but they adjust only for unit difference, while syringes can measure down to .1 unit dose or even less ...

that's getting into advanced knowledge and I haven't gotten that far yet, just doing a LOT of reading on the message board, sorry, this has me confuzzled ...
 
Thanks for the extra info! :D

Obviously without a chart to look at no one will be able to tell you if those 400-500s are coming from bounces (if Loki's body feels those 100-200s are too low and is pulling it back up intentionally) or if it's just due to the fact that Novolin has a short duration and it's long worn off by meal-time. I originally started Panic on Novolin and it never lasted long enough, same for Vetsulin. Kitties just have too fast a metabolism!

Yep, that sounds exactly like my girl too! She was the only cat who would never finish a meal and now she lives for food. At this point she doesn't skid across the floor every time she hears a can open (oh the times I have to hide in closets to open non-cat food cans!) so I know she's improving, and Loki will too with time and regulation!

An auto feeder is such a good investment! I use mine daily, as I'm sure everyone else here does.

25g? I didn't even know that was a thing!! :eek: I think I use 31g, it's so much more comfortable! Oh and before you get any more syringes - don't bother getting them from your vet, they're way overpriced. When they got me my U-40 syringes for Vetsulin it was $35!! ADW Diabetes has a website that has tons of sales/coupons and better options. I just bought a pack of 100 for $15. You can get ones with shorter/thinner needles too. Walmart sells some ReliOn brand at their pharmacy, 100 for $12.50 as well.

Another thing, if it's just the size of the U-40s putting you off (I think you can't get 5/16 size needles, only 1/2 inch) a majority of us use a conversion chart and just use U-100 needles. :D If you switch to Lantus though it shouldn't be a problem since it's a U-100 insulin anyhow.
 
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Ya they said they would just use the ones that they give immunizations with which doesn't work!!! I'm a pharmacy tech so I lucked out having a little bit of foreknowledge on some of this. But oh man I have so much to learn still. It's been hard learning it all as we go trying so hard to get him under control. All the tips and advice you guys are giving is amazing and we can't thank you enough!

I will try and get more data down over the next wk or so to try and provide a little extra information for everyone to see ^-^

Candy, I have been using little disposable 25G lancets on his pads, usually around the tops so he isn't walking on the poke spots. I'm so afraid to poke him on his ear T^T that and he really hates having his ears messed with.

I do just use the Relion 3/10mL needles 31G at the moment. they've been very easy to use and he hardly notices the shots when I give them now. and the autofeeder was actually my moms idea that I never even thought of tbh. and I have every intention to make the best use of it. Just at the very least to give him peace of mind while I'm gone that he will still be able to have small snacks.

You may be right about the Novolin as well Panic, it doesn't seem to quite last for him. he's a big long boy too and he's always had a good metabolism, like for a cat his size I was told he should be at least 12lbs.
 
love the perma-purr ... Catcat can go from purry-furry to prowly-growly in an instant -- he still growls when I prick his ears, but has pretty much stopped fighting unless I have to reprick and repoke if I don't get a big enough droplet to test, or if he's managed to flick it all off

the warmed baby sock full of rice or oatmeal has helped at times, better yet has been consistent gentle stroking on both ears before I get down to the prick, he doesn't like things near his ears but will tolerate folded toilet tissue to back up where I prick, and he doesn't mind it folded over his ear after I get the test

he's come to realize that he WILL get a good sized pinch of bonito flakes after each test .. and he now understands the word "treat"

for him, the test on pads is an absolute no-no, and since he's occasionally an outside cat, I don't want to puncture there anyway

I've had good luck feeding a tablespoonful of food, slurried up with equal amount of water, as I do the test -- timed about half an hour before I want to shoot the insulin, he's usually well above no-shoot level since Vetsulin, for him, seems to be effective for only 9-10 hours; the plan is to transition to Lantus after vet does dental cleaning (better to affect BG by only one change at a time)
 
Chel said:
I will also take a look at the lantus pens, if I am able I would definitely much rather be using that.
Click to expand...

A lot of us are buying our Lantus from Canada because it's 1/3 to 1/2 the price! One 5 pack of pens is 1500 units which is enough to last most cats at least a year so it actually becomes pretty affordable!

Here's the information on Buying insulin from Canada

A 5 pack is $169 plus $25 shipping

You could also ask for a script for Basaglar…..it's a little cheaper than Lantus and is still Insulin Glargine!
 
Larry and Kitties said:
Are you preparing Loki's diet from scratch? More nutrients that meat and eggs are required for a balanced diet. See: https://catinfo.org/making-cat-food/
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Yep, I was wondering that too. Pure muscle meat (and eggs) doesn't provide all the nutrients a cat needs. I'm not an expert, so I won't try to explain, but I know they need things like the nutrients from organ meats, etc. Please check out the link that Larry provided. And good luck :)
 
Welcome Loki and mom. Wanted to let you know what our routine is since we are also new to this insulin dance. We are now on Prozinc after switching vets. Vetsulin wasn't lasting very long for Mango. We use the U40 needles and trust me, I was scared to death to give a shot but after six weeks it's second nature. I test, feed and then, since we test on the kitchen counter, I put Mango back up on the counter, put extra wet food down, he eats and I shoot. He doesn't even know he got his insulin. Easy and quick. The U40 needles are small. I buy them on amazon and they come with the sharp container as well. Nice set up. We are all on this journey and having the support of the board keeps me from feeling depressed, crazy and sometimes confused and frustrated. This board keeps me sane! :cat:
 
Larry and Kitties said:
Are you preparing Loki's diet from scratch? More nutrients that meat and eggs are required for a balanced diet. See: https://catinfo.org/making-cat-food/
Click to expand...

I will definitely take a look at this. I know there are other things that I need to compensate for in his diet with the meals I'm making but I have been hesitant to add more until I am able to really get his sugars under control. I have been using meat with more fat content at the least, though, and am checking my local grocers for good organ meats to add in. There is a place that butchers their own meats that has a really good selection of organs (liver, kidney etc). Thank you for the info! :) it's really going to help out.

I have been looking into different prices for the lantus as well as the basaglar and have asked my vet for an rx already. I am hoping to get that very soon. We also got our automatic feeder last night and I will be investing in a much better dry food to get him snacks throughout the day while I'm not home. Only between 5-10gm per snack atm.

Luckily too my Loki is a sweet boy when he isn't hungry lol so testing and injecting him has been quite easy. He's an indoor cat so no major issues about him getting into something hazardous.
 
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