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Bowie S. B. Otch

Bowie S. B. Otch

Member Since 2016
I was doing another glucose curve for Bowie who was diagnosed less than a month ago. I am using a human meter. He was 307 at AMPS, 3.5+ he was 213, and 5.5+ he was 60. I gave him 1/4 can of FF savory salmon and 3-4 TBS of W/D dry food which his high glucose. He ate ravenously. He has been VERY hungry in the afternoons and my husband has been giving him 1/4 can of FF every afternoon, but he's worried that Bowie's blood sugar has been getting too low in the afternoon. (My hubby is very needle and blood phobic and has not learned to test him yet, he has observed me giving injections).
The vet OK, snack and wants me to retest an hour after the snack to see how low he's getting. Behavior seems OK, he's lounging, but alert.
 
Yeah, the vet hinted at changing his food and I'm confused why would not try lower dose and retest in a few days....I'm not vet, but that makes sense to me.
 
Bowie S. B. Otch said:
Yeah, the vet hinted at changing his food and I'm confused why would not try lower dose and retest in a few days....I'm not vet, but that makes sense to me.
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Is the vet thinking that a lower carb wet food would be better? If so, I agree. However, changing to a lower carb food might significantly impact BG numbers and if the insulin dose is kept where it is, BG can plummet to dangerously low levels. The food changeover would have to be done when careful monitoring is possible and might even require a lowering of insulin dose at the same time. Tricky combination ...
 
He's typically on 1 can W/D wet at am and one at night. She OK'd giving him w/d crunchies as a snack, but we had decided on our own to do the FF pates as a snack, since he's always loved. the ff savory salmon.
Retest at +7 was 101, so the snack worked...:woot:
 
Bowie S. B. Otch said:
He's typically on 1 can W/D wet at am and one at night.
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W/D is high carb.....the canned is 25% carbs and the dry is even higher......If your kitty likes the Fancy Feast Classics, they're a much better choice and his insulin dose could come down dramatically (which is why IF you change over to a low carb food, it's very important that you're home testing often enough to keep him safe!)

There's nothing special about those prescription foods (other than the price).....and if you check the ingredients, you'll see they're really not any better than any other "supermarket" food like Friskies
 
Chris & China said:
W/D is high carb.....the canned is 25% carbs and the dry is even higher......If your kitty likes the Fancy Feast Classics, they're a much better choice and his insulin dose could come down dramatically (which is why IF you change over to a low carb food, it's very important that you're home testing often enough to keep him safe!)

There's nothing special about those prescription foods (other than the price).....and if you check the ingredients, you'll see they're really not any better than any other "supermarket" food like Friskies
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Hi Chris, I am aware of this possibility and am definitely considering this as an option. I wanted to get him stabilized on the vets diet and a dose before tinkering with his food. The first time we did a glucose curve after, he seemed to have a late nadir, so I didn't want to go changing food right away. It is definitely on my radar and I appreciate the suggestion and information.
 
OK, +9.5, the level is 140. After struggling to get a good reading, I was able to get two back to back at this point and it was 140/141. So, I'm pretty sure about this reading.
 
So the hypo is avoided. That is very good news indeed. And you recorded the incident into the spreadsheet, more kudos.

Consider testing Bowie every day at pre-shot, he could be low and you just don't know it. Kudos for having the spreadsheet setup.

I would also reduce the dose. And a corresponding change to a high protein diet. Leo is on 95% Fancy Feast classic. He likes it, and the protein/carb mix is correct for diabetic cats. It is not very expensive - $0.55/can. Leo eats 3.5 cans/day. You can get it on occasional sale at Petsmart and Target. We got 6 months worth at an average of $0.47/can, for ~$300 when it was on sale.
 
Thanks Jeff! If you see above, you will see that I am definitely trying to address that, but I am also trying to get things stabilized one at a time.
I will not adjust his meds without speaking with the vet first. Not at this point.
The hard part is that this guy is getting pretty good at sneaking contraband, so I am struggling to get a true measure of where he's at. He's a resourceful cat. He follows the kids into the kitchen. My daughter left the pantry door open and he climbed up to the shelf where the food is stored and got into his sister's crunchies (we are trying to finish a bag we bought the week before he was diagnosed). I found him in there with his face in the bag at +10 yesterday. I don't know how much he ate, but he was at +366 by PMPS! So, I have him his wet food and meds, and got up at 3 am to retest. He has been craftier about sneaking into the room she hangs out in, to get the food when it is available to her. He is smart enough to know the kindergartners are the weakest link, sloppy eaters, who leave doors open.

My other frustration is that his ears are sore and this AM, I wanted to do a AMPS test and it was impossible, he was swiping at me (I'm the only one who bled), and he started growling. I backed off. He's not a good bleeder. Even with 28 gauge needles and prewarming his ears.
 
Bowie S. B. Otch said:
Hi Chris, I am aware of this possibility and am definitely considering this as an option. I wanted to get him stabilized on the vets diet and a dose before tinkering with his food. The first time we did a glucose curve after, he seemed to have a late nadir, so I didn't want to go changing food right away. It is definitely on my radar and I appreciate the suggestion and information.
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I don't understand this thinking. You want to "stabilize" on vets diet and dosage. If you do that then change food, he won't be stabilized anymore, and the dose could be to high. You've already seen what substituting ff for dry can do. Try storing the dry food in the microwave when not in use.
 
Yeah, Leo used to be sneaky too. Now we have removed all potential for that opportunity. Leo has Acromegaly, so his diabetes is different. But he is "starving" all the time in his mind, even though he is overweight.

Now in the winter, I do 5-6 quick massages of Leo's ear. I massage it up, with 2 fingers, pushing blood from the base of his ear to the tip. It helps. We are lucky. He is a good healer and there is hardly any evidence he has been getting ear-poked.
 
JeffJ said:
Yeah, Leo used to be sneaky too. Now we have removed all potential for that opportunity. Leo has Acromegaly, so his diabetes is different. But he is "starving" all the time in his mind, even though he is overweight.

Now in the winter, I do 5-6 quick massages of Leo's ear. I massage it up, with 2 fingers, pushing blood from the base of his ear to the tip. It helps. We are lucky. He is a good healer and there is hardly any evidence he has been getting ear-poked.
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Thanks for the tip. I hold Bowie's ear for 3-4 minutes, then try hitting the sweet spot. The lancet mechanisms doesn't work, I have to free hand it.

Bowie is SUCH a sneak. He's never ever jumped up on my bedroom dresser. It has all sorts of stuff on it, including the bowl of crunchies that Maggie had not finished this morning. He had put a paper over it to cover it. Bowie jumped up there today and ate it around 1:30 pm. He's now passed out on my bed. Little stinker!

Time for Maggie to go on the same exact schedule as Bowie. That's what our vet suggested and we thought we could handle it/keep him away from her food bowl. He gets us almost every time. I was going to check his BG, and realized, what's the point, he's already had about 1/3 cup of W/D crunchies.
 
Woodsywife said:
I don't understand this thinking. You want to "stabilize" on vets diet and dosage. If you do that then change food, he won't be stabilized anymore, and the dose could be to high. You've already seen what substituting ff for dry can do. Try storing the dry food in the microwave when not in use.
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It's the scientist in me, you don't change two conditions at once. You change one variable at a time. I want to have a baseline, then go from there.
Good tip on the food. Part of the problem is his sister's food bowl. This last one with him getting up to my tall dresser has my husband finally on board to putting Maggie on the same schedule.
 
"He's now passed out on my bed. Little stinker!"
That's so funny.
Yeah, Leo and Scoobs used to sneak food too. We put baby/kid locks on all the cabinets. And even then we have to move any packages of food back. They reach in and try to get them. In our house, every potential cat food source is locked up tight.
 
No matter how hard you try to keep all food locked up, they will find something you missed. My granddaughters are bad about leaving doors ajar. All my 4 cats are good at sneaking into the garage where the dog food is stored. One of our civies can jump up on the top of the frig. If there is a scrap of food , they will find it.
 
Bowie S. B. Otch said:
It's the scientist in me, you don't change two conditions at once. You change one variable at a time. I want to have a baseline, then go from there.
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Just some general safety info: if you do decide at some stage to transition Bowie to a lower carb diet then it may be necessary to adjust both the carb load and the insulin dose in parallel.


Mogs
.
 
donnalea said:
No matter how hard you try to keep all food locked up, they will find something you missed. My granddaughters are bad about leaving doors ajar. All my 4 cats are good at sneaking into the garage where the dog food is stored. One of our civies can jump up on the top of the frig. If there is a scrap of food , they will find it.
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We are starting to learn that. I guess we should expect resourcefulness from the best tree climber on the block, and a cat that was found as a weeks old kitten in coulee (probably the only survivor of a drowned litter), adopted as an outdoor cat by a woman dying of cancer, and gifted to her daughter upon her death bed. The daughter didn't like cats and kept him as an exclusively out door cat for two years. He decided we made a better family, and when they offered him to us, we couldn't refuse, our kids already felt like he was our cat. Point being, he is resourceful.

I made a shrimp dish tonight and as soon as I measured out the portion of shrimp from the bag in the freezer, he went wild and jumped up on the counter. Poor baby was hungry and it was 30 minutes before feeding time.
 
Locking cabinets? Not a bad idea. Kills two birds with one stone. Our kids breaking into the snacks right before dinner time (and then saying the veggies are just too much), and Bowie climbing in to pilfer food after they've done so and left the door open.

Last night I woke up to him knocking stuff off my dresser because he thought there might be food up there. Sorry Darling, your sister is on the same 12 hour schedule now.
 
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