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lesleymweick

lesleymweick

Member Since 2013
My sweet Molly was diagnosed last saturday. Serum glucose at the vets was 534.I started wet food (FF classic and Great Choice classic) on sunday, which she has been eating ok. Definetly likes the fishy ones over the beefy ones. I started insulin on tuesday evening. Her preshot BG was 327.
My vet said to start Lantus q12 2.5 units, however after posting here I got nervous at the responses who felt it was too much.
I gave her 2u tues pm and 2u wed am, my husband fed her last night then tried to pick her up to give her a shot last night as I was working. She went crazy tried to bite him which she never does with me so I told him not to give it. I did a preshot BG this am and it was 249. She eat half of her breakfast and then I interrupted her to give her 2u. Since then she has been under my bed, has not eat anything. I coaxed her out at the 6 hour (nadir) time and checked her BG it was 81.
Obviously the insulin is working but I wonder if it is too much at one time for her.
Should I give her some time to adjust to wet diet and check her BG. I wonder what would happen to her BG just with diet only
She eats the wet food much slower than dry food and in the mornings when I work I have a 30 minute window to stick her, feed her and give her insulin I'm worried now that she will go under the bed and not eat.
I do have an automatic feeder that can open q6, should I put some low carb treats in that?
And what do I do about my husband giving her insulin. I think it really freaked him out. I know it is all bravado with her , she really is a shy sweet girl but he really felt she was being aggressive. It's not good for me to be the only one that can give her insulin, my family is in Scotland and I need to be able to fly home if there is an emergency
I'm open to any advise, she is my sweetheart! confused_cat
 
Hello.
You said she was at 81. She might have gone lower than that.
I think your dose could be high especially since it's only been a couple of days that you changed her diet. Diet change can really affect Bg
right away...
Someone who can give dosing advise will come and help you with where you should adjust to.

Since you only have 30 minutes before leaving after her shot, you might want to consider a better schedule that give you more time.
This place is definitely the "sleep deprived club". It is easy to get hung up on a specific time and after you think about for a while,
you might see a better time slot that helps you get some testing in after the shot both am and pm.

If she is usually hanging out with you or your husband instead of under the bed, you might want to find cardboard boxes and cut them to size
to stuff under your bed so she can't get so far under there that you can't reach her. You always want to be able to get her easily.
Especially now that she is low and could go lower.

My cat also got really aggressive during shots and testing early on. You will want to reward her for all interactions with your DH and yourself
too. A little freeze dried treat that she really likes will help her learn it's okay but it does take time. Your DH will be able to help over
time.
Sometimes it takes baby steps, just petting her and giving her that treat and working his way to more.
 
Great to change the food and the fact that you are testing is great and the insulin choice is superb- but you are correct in that it is too high. Mostly we start out at 1u BID or even .5u BID. Why did the vet start so high?

Getting her used to the routine of tests and shots will be the initial hurdle. Once she is used to it she won't freak out when someone new does it, plus he might have been nervous and she read that and reacted to it. Give it time, they pick up on our moods SO easily.

Food- most of us free-fed during the day or you can freeze her canned (add water) and place it in the feeder (add another ice cube) and it will thaw out and be fresh when it is time for her to eat it.

Heather and Sneakers
 
I asked someone who advises on dosing to come over later when able to help you adjust the dose for tonite's shot.



You probably need to try several foods to find ones that Molly likes. I copy and pasted my personal list below.
My cat also prefers most seafoods but you should try to get Molly to eat more poultry than seafood if you are able.

You can mix them together and change the ratio over time to get her more used to the poultry selections.
I still have to add cut up bits of raw shrimp to the ones my cat doesn't want to eat or use additives like Fortiflora or freeze dried turkey
sprinkled on top.


You also need to get a hypo kit together ( if you haven't already) cick on any of these links.
hypo kit toolbox
How to handle low readings
list of low carb treats


all values are from Dr. Pierson's updated list


carbs in % . . last number is phosphorus ( FKD cats need under 250 phosphorus)
4% - fancy feast CLASSICS chicken feast- 546 - stay away from any that are not classics
4%- fancy feast chopped grilled feast pate -569
2%- fancy feast cod, sole & shrimp feast pate – 787
4%- fancy feast Ocean Whitefish and tuna pate 823
1% -fancy feast Savory Salmon feast pate – 369
5%-fancy feast Tender beef feast pate -637
5%-fancy feast Tender beef and chicken feast pate -502
5% - fancy feast Tender beef and liver feast pate – 525
4% -fancy feast Tender liver and chicken feast pate -598
3%- fancy feast Turkey & giblets feast pate – 355

8% - Friskies flaked with tuna and egg 415
9% - Friskies Poultry platter – 438
5% - Friskies Special diet Turkey and Giblets dinner pate 189
5% - Friskies Special diet Beef and Chicken Entree pate 242

5% - Merrick Cowboy cookout 202
8% - Merrick Grammy's pot pie 237
3% - Merrick Surf n Turf 229
4% -Merrick Southern delight -328 this one has crawfish in it.
8% -Merrick Ocean Breeze 420
9% -Merrick Turducken 219

1%- Merrick Before Grain cat 96% beef – 163
2% - Merrick Before Grain cat 96% chicken – 341
2%- Merrick Before Grain cat 96% turkey – 178
2%-Merrick Before Grain cat 96% quail and chicken – 506
2%- Merrick Before Grain cat 96% salmon 439
2% Merrick Before Grain cat 96% tuna 450

4% - Wellness chicken 219
4% - Wellness turkey 201
5% - Wellness turkey and salmon 299
4% - Wellness Beef and chicken 226
6% - Wellness chicken & herring 303
6% - Wellness beef & salmon 207

8% - Wellness Core chicken/turkey/chicken liver 215
5% - Wellness Core Turkey & Duck 265
5% - Wellness Core Beef , Venison & Lamb 171

0% - TikiCat Koolina Luau 421 ( chicken with egg)

3% - Nature's variety Instinct Grain free Chicken – 302
3% - Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Beef – 248
2% - Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Lamb 262
1% - Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Duck 191
0% - Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Venison 330
? - Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Rabbit ?

0% - Natura Evo chicken and turkey 155
5% - Natura Evo 95% duck 251
6% - Natura Evo 95% venison – 416
4% - Natura Evo 95% beef – 234

8% Holistic Select chicken & lamb 222
8% Holistic Select Salmon & shrimp 264

6% Nutro Natural Choice Mature Health Chicken & Turkey Formula chunks in gravy 204

8% Soulistic Shrimply Divine 270
4% Soulistic Double Happiness 262
3% Soulistic Polynesian Picnic 239
4% Soulistic Celestial Feast 250
7% Soulistic Upstream Dream 234
9% Soulistic Surf n Earth 255
8% Soulistic Nautical Nirvana 228

2% Purina One chicken pate 438
3% Purina One Turkey pate 469
5% Purina One Beef pate 530
2% Purina One Whitefish pate 734

9% ProPlan Turkey and Giblets 382
4% ProPlan Chicken & Liver entree 509
5% ProPlan Chunky Chicken Entree 639

9% Max Cat Chicken Supreme 173
8% Max Cat with savory duck 197
8% Max Cat with Savory Venison 214

8% Avoderm Chicken Chunks/gravy (??) 234
0% Avoderm Salmon in consumme 469
1% Avoderm Swordfish in consumme 271
0% Avoderm Tuna & Prawns 278
2% Avoderm Tuna % chicken w/ veggies 241

6% Artemis Chicken 320
4% Artemis Turkey & giblets 409

5% Halo Spot's Pate Whitefish 466 my cat does not like Halo.
4% Halo spot's Pate Chicken 303
9% Halo Succulent Salmon 227

1% Eukanuba kitten entree with gourmet chicken 253
1% Eukanuba adult with gourmet chicken 239

7% Evolve -chicken 214
6% Evolve turkey 244
6% Evolve seafood 265

4% Natural Balance Catatouille (stew) 274
0% Natural Balance O'Fischally Scampi 244
2% Natural Balance Sea Brulee 297

5% Pinnacle Chicken and Ocean fish 175
5% Pinnacle Chicken and Tuna 221
4% Pinnacle Ocean Fish 231
Click to expand...
 
Why does your husband need to pick her up to give her the shot? I like to put food in front of my boys and shoot them while they are eating.. given you dont feed for 2 hours before the shot, they are hungry then so its no problem getting them to eat when they are engrossed in food. Even better if you crush some dried chicken on top.

With diet only her blood glucose may drop, but you have a much better chance of remission with insulin too. Given you only have a short window for remission (most cats who are going to go into remission do it in the first 6 months) you dont want to delay things.

Can you set up a spreadsheet so we can see whats going on? http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Wendy
 
rhiannon and shadow said:
is this correct for today?

AMPs 259
+6 81


what hour are you at now?
Click to expand...
AMPs 249 +6 81 I gave her her shot at 7 30 am , the nadir was at 13 30 and its now 15 30 ish so + 8. She has eat a little bit of purelife treats
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
Why does your husband need to pick her up to give her the shot? I like to put food in front of my boys and shoot them while they are eating.. given you dont feed for 2 hours before the shot, they are hungry then so its no problem getting them to eat when they are engrossed in food. Even better if you crush some dried chicken on top.

With diet only her blood glucose may drop, but you have a much better chance of remission with insulin too. Given you only have a short window for remission (most cats who are going to go into remission do it in the first 6 months) you dont want to delay things.

Can you set up a spreadsheet so we can see whats going on? http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Wendy
Click to expand...
Wendy if he trys to bend down beside her she will run under the bed. I'm sure I will be able to give her her shot if she is eating but even though she has known my husband for 6 years she is a one person cat...Me!!!!
 
Hmm. time for extra special treats. Does she have anything she really really loves like grilled chicken or catnip that your husband (and only him) can give her?
 
spoke to my vet. Plan is that I will check her BG tonight to see if it has rebounded. He thinks 81 nadir is okay since she hasn't eat much today. try to feed her see if she will eat. If she eats and her BG is back to her am levels I can give her insulin. If she doesn't eat don't give her the shot and he said it would be ok to mix in a little bit of her old dry food to the wet food . Check her BG in the morning.
 
My husband tried to give my Honey a shot a few weeks ago and had a similar experience.
He did the poke ok but I suspect he freaked her doing it and that was it...no go on the shot.

It depends how patient your husband is (mine isn't) but he could try the treats like Wendy suggested and just go really slow, ie. get her used to him handling her ears and stroking/tenting her back maybe with you there.
And then when she's ready, do the shot - again with you there.
It might work, then again, maybe not - cats are not the most helpful of animals...
 
Sounds like a good plan but "back to her am levels" leaves some room for interpretation.. is that over 251? what if she is 245? 230? We usually advise "post, dont shoot" for new people if the BG is under 200... so choosing 250 is a good number to shoot above.

However if she is over 250 and you do shoot - given she isnt eating properly and dropped to 81 today - I think you should test at +2 or +3 just to see what she is doing ... and post to let us know.

We are still expecting an experienced member to come here and comment.
 
There are suggestions for changing to a wet food on catinfo.org
It is tricky because you know they have to eat for the shot.

You should also have in higher carb wet foods - just in case her bg drops low - pretty much anything with gravy in the description. Most cats love it.
How to treat a hypo

I sometimes put sprinkles of a fav. treat, eg. freeze dried chicken on top of the wet food if she won't eat at shot time.
I also move the food dish to her - so if she's under the bed, she gets to eat under the bed - sometimes that works.

She was eating her breakfast so I'm sure she'll come around and you can feed anytime up to 2 hours before a bg test, that includes shot times otherwise the test number will be affected by the food.
My Honey is on about 6-7 meals a day but they are small.
 
Hey there, what was her BG tonite? Did you shoot? I don't see any dosing people on here yet and I apologise for that.. I will touch base with them again

let me know
Wendy
 
Thanks everyone. Her BG last night was 46!!! so no insulin for her! She eat her food overnight and her BG this morning was 297 so she has eat some after bg treats and some breakfast so I gave her insulin 2uand now she is under the bed :sad: I took wendys advise and moved her dish beside the bed. I will check her BGtonight. Poor baby her life is so upside down, I can see in her face thats shes puzzled why I lift her up more. She purrs and nuzzles me when I pick her up but shes puzzled! confused_cat
I work tomorrow and I will be off for a few days together after that plan to do a curve and if shes really dropping low I'm dropping back her dose to 1 unit!
 
I think you need to check her bg's today.
She could very well drop low again and might need you to give her a medium carb or high carb gravy to bring it up.
a 46 earns her a reduction in dose.
Please check back here so one of the advisors can tell you specifically what the dose should be.
In my humble opinion, your vet has the dose too high. Your vet may be experienced with other insulins ( such as canninsulin for dogs) and
is dosing lantus the same way.

Marje is one of the advisors and needs to know the ideal weight for Molly. She posted last night. I think you probably had gone to bed.
 
46!!! Yikes! She definately is getting too much insulin. I worry about her. You need to reduce her insulin immediately. What weight is she? One unit might even be too much if she is a light cat.
 
thanks all
Molly is 15 pounds....yes a big pretty fat girl! Today she went under the bed after her shot, she had eat some breakfast, of course I'm worried I checked on her and got her to eat some wet food from my hand (Yuk!) had to pop out to Walmart when I got back madam Molly had eat all her food! I'm going to check her BG tonight and take it from there. My vet is a cats only vet and he says he prefers Lantus insulin over any other. I get the impression that this first 2 weeks are a transition after that he has mentioned that we will get tighter controls. If her BG is low tonight and we skip another evening dose then I absolutely will change to 1 unit! It seems stupid to give her 2units then have to skip the second dose.
 
lesleymweick said:
If her BG is low tonight and we skip another evening dose then I absolutely will change to 1 unit! It seems stupid to give her 2units then have to skip the second dose.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct you are looking for a dose that allows you to shoot every 12 hours without dropping her too low.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Her PMPS tonight is 115. I have held her insulin again! but it's official I'M CHANGING TO 1 UNIT BID until I can get a good handle on how she transitions to all the change in her life! On a brighter note, I went into my bedroom earlier and she came out fromn under the bed laid down on the floor beside the bed and showed me her belly :-D
she is feeling better! dancing_cat
 
Yay and good job on the spreadsheet! I need to write more and explain some stuff for you about dosing and so on but I am on the train right now. Please check back here again tonite or tomorrow morning before you shoot!
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
Yay and good job on the spreadsheet! I need to write more and explain some stuff for you about dosing and so on but I am on the train right now. Please check back here again tonite or tomorrow morning before you shoot!
Click to expand...
Thanks Wendy, I'm an neonatal ICU nurse so I'm very used to small dosesand sticking fragile skin for blood :-D etc. I'm also very used to questioning my doc!! When my vet prescribed 2.5 units I became to mom and not the advocate! I'm glad i found this and now seeing Molly's response to her new life it makes sense to go low and slow!!! :-D
 
Ok I am home and fed.

First it was good you didnt shoot tonite although it would have been better if we had had a member walk you through shooting and handling low numbers.. so maybe read this.http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=147

Because you didnt shoot tonite there is a good chance she will be high tomorrow morning. Do you feed before you test? Its a good idea to withhold food for two hours before the shot so that her numbers arent inflated by food. Then also do a test 5-7 hours after her shot to see how low she is dropping .. Lantus works in a 12 hour curve with its peak action around hour 6 (although it varies by cat etc). Its this low number you would base any dose decreases on.

Can I suggest you also read about this protocol that has been developed and we have had some success on ? http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581
Many of us on this forum use this protocol to decide on dosing for our cats. Plus we have another board purely dedicated to that protocol which is extremely active and has a lot of people advising there.. I would love to move you over there if you like the sound of it.

Unlike humans, cats can and do go into remission but your best chance is within the first few months and this protocol helps

Let me know and I look forward to hearing from you!
Wendy
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
Ok I am home and fed.

First it was good you didnt shoot tonite although it would have been better if we had had a member walk you through shooting and handling low numbers.. so maybe read this.http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=147

Because you didnt shoot tonite there is a good chance she will be high tomorrow morning. Do you feed before you test? Its a good idea to withhold food for two hours before the shot so that her numbers arent inflated by food. Then also do a test 5-7 hours after her shot to see how low she is dropping .. Lantus works in a 12 hour curve with its peak action around hour 6 (although it varies by cat etc). Its this low number you would base any dose decreases on.

Can I suggest you also read about this protocol that has been developed and we have had some success on ? http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581
Many of us on this forum use this protocol to decide on dosing for our cats. Plus we have another board purely dedicated to that protocol which is extremely active and has a lot of people advising there.. I would love to move you over there if you like the sound of it.

Unlike humans, cats can and do go into remission but your best chance is within the first few months and this protocol helps

Let me know and I look forward to hearing from you!
Wendy
Click to expand...
She was 312 today, I gave her 1 unit. She didn't go under the bed today, she behaved the way she normally would before all this. I'm much happier today!!!
 
Can I invite you to start posting on this forum instead? http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

There are a lot of members with dosing expertise there who will look at your spreadsheet on a regular basis - If you post regularly, they will comment and advise.
For example today you would have

Subject line (?) 2/2 Molly AMPS 312
Content: today Molly hid under the bed but she came out more to see us so I think she is feeling better. Question - how do I handle low numbers

It would be good for you to be there as now that you are testing regularly they are better placed to advise you.

let me know!

Wendy
 
hello there, have you started posting on the tight regulation forum yet? I see she had a nice low number this morning but i wonder if she was really high yesterday because she wasnt eating.Maybe take a few spot checks today to see how she is going and then if she is under 200 tonite I would post here and a few peole can help you through shooting at low numbers.
Wendy
 
Wendy&Tiggy said:
hello there, have you started posting on the tight regulation forum yet? I see she had a nice low number this morning but i wonder if she was really high yesterday because she wasnt eating.Maybe take a few spot checks today to see how she is going and then if she is under 200 tonite I would post here and a few peole can help you through shooting at low numbers.
Wendy
Click to expand...
Hi Wendy, just saw your post. I haven't posted in the TRforum yet but plan to soon. she was 202 I gave her 1 unit. She really is a princess. if I'm in the house she stays under the bed in the daytime. If I go out, she comes out and eats! :YMSIGH: Around 4pm she comes out and requests an audience with me dancing_cat . It's almost better for me to be at work! I will do some spot checks tomorrow I'm also going to a couple of nearby vets to talk about their insulin protocols, I think I'll transfer her care. Thanks for checking on us!
 
Sounds like my civvie cat. She spends most of her life in a closet. Comes out around 8pm and stays out all night. Due to an issue with a smoke alarm we had when she was a kitten she learned to hide whenever there might be cooking ;( Always was a nervous cat though so we think we might put her on prozac or something. We tried feliway and it did nothing.

Can you get a +2 or +3 tonite? It will give you a good idea of how she is trending.
 
I know. And its hard wired into the electric. Every frigging time we cooked something (no smoke needed) it would go off and we'd run around flapping our arms and stuff. We got it replaced in a few days not before Cookie had developed a phobia.

She is like that.. she gets a phobia really quick and is a nervous cat. One time as a kitten we had her outside on a leash because it was a new house and there were no fences or anything. Someone across the back dared to open their door and shout across how cute she was.. she freaked!! She ran towards our house ad started throwing herself at the door, I ran after her and opened the door and dropped the leash so she could get inside. She then got tangled inside the house. I untangled her quickly but that was 12 years ago and if she so much as hears the leash she goes and hides. I mean it was one time. and she didnt get hurt or anything. It didnt help her mum was a stray.


Wendy
 
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