Nan & Amber (GA)
Member Since 2016
@Critter Mom, hope she's doing a bit better now...
Advice Needed: How to Administer a Dose of Gabapentin
- Thread starter Critter Mom
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Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Hello people,
Thank you so much for your messages. Greatly appreciated.
Good news:
The Noodle's hind legs are working better now and she has been able to eat a few uber-mini feeds. (Poor créatuir got sick last night because her stomach had been empty for so long - really acidic vomitus.
)
Bad news:
She's still not great. Her pupils aren't back to normal, she's barely moved all day. She's been sleeping on the sofa but it's not a normal sleep, if you get my drift. There's a muted quality to her, her face looks different - expression has a somewhat absent look to it - and she's eerily quiet. Her blood pressure has been doing strange things too.
It's over 33 hours since the gabapentin dose was administered! By way of comparison, when she was sedated at the vets in the past, she might be slightly wobbly on her legs on return home but the absolute maximum time for her to return to full normal mobility would be 8 hours after administration of the sedative. She'd be a bit loved up with the world for the rest of the evening (a nice side effect!) but she was fully compos mentis and able to eat and drink OK. The following day you'd never know she'd had the meds.
(((Lúnasa)))
Mogs
.
Thank you so much for your messages. Greatly appreciated.
Good news:
The Noodle's hind legs are working better now and she has been able to eat a few uber-mini feeds. (Poor créatuir got sick last night because her stomach had been empty for so long - really acidic vomitus.
)Bad news:
She's still not great. Her pupils aren't back to normal, she's barely moved all day. She's been sleeping on the sofa but it's not a normal sleep, if you get my drift. There's a muted quality to her, her face looks different - expression has a somewhat absent look to it - and she's eerily quiet. Her blood pressure has been doing strange things too.
It's over 33 hours since the gabapentin dose was administered! By way of comparison, when she was sedated at the vets in the past, she might be slightly wobbly on her legs on return home but the absolute maximum time for her to return to full normal mobility would be 8 hours after administration of the sedative. She'd be a bit loved up with the world for the rest of the evening (a nice side effect!) but she was fully compos mentis and able to eat and drink OK. The following day you'd never know she'd had the meds.
(((Lúnasa)))
Mogs
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Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Hi Tom,
Mogs
.
Thank you for posting the above. Becca's reaction to the gabapentin is what my vet indicated I should expect in Lúnasa. Given that she's at the zorked stage 34 hours after dose admin she must have been near catatonic when the vet was doing the blood draw and cysto. Based on her response, I think the dose prescribed was way too high for her.
Solidarity! I feel your pain.
Mogs
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Diana&Tom
Member Since 2009
Oh poor baby... I’m sure you’ll be discussing this with your vet, Mogs, it has not been a good couple of days for both of you. I hope to see a report very soon that things are back to normal.Hello people,
Thank you so much for your messages. Greatly appreciated.
Good news:
The Noodle's hind legs are working better now and she has been able to eat a few uber-mini feeds. (Poor créatuir got sick last night because her stomach had been empty for so long - really acidic vomitus.
Bad news:
She's still not great. Her pupils aren't back to normal, she's barely moved all day. She's been sleeping on the sofa but it's not a normal sleep, if you get my drift. There's a muted quality to her, her face looks different - expression has a somewhat absent look to it - and she's eerily quiet. Her blood pressure has been doing strange things too.
It's over 33 hours since the gabapentin dose was administered! By way of comparison, when she was sedated at the vets in the past, she might be slightly wobbly on her legs on return home but the absolute maximum time for her to return to full normal mobility would be 8 hours after administration of the sedative. She'd be a bit loved up with the world for the rest of the evening (a nice side effect!) but she was able to eat and drink OK by early evening. The following day you'd never know she'd had the meds.
(((Lúnasa)))
Mogs
.
Nan & Amber (GA)
Member Since 2016
Oh, the poor thing! It sure does sound like, at a minimum, the dose was way too much for her. Seems also like things snowballed in part because she was unable to eat for so long after that dose zonked her out so thoroughly. Maybe that wouldn't happen on a lower dose, or maybe it's just a bad fit for her kidneys, period.
Hope she continues to improve, poor little girl...
Hope she continues to improve, poor little girl...
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Aaaaaand we're back in the room.
Her nibs has just decided to make a liar of me. She's awake and moving around a little but pupils continue to be abnormally dilated somewhat, she's still spacey and seems confused: she just complained that her litter box wasn't in the bathroom. (It's in the kitty penthouse at the moment. Normally she'd go straight to wherever the litter box happened to be at a given time.) Nathelees, phew! I'll take it.
(((The Noodle)))
Mogs
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Her nibs has just decided to make a liar of me. She's awake and moving around a little but pupils continue to be abnormally dilated somewhat, she's still spacey and seems confused: she just complained that her litter box wasn't in the bathroom. (It's in the kitty penthouse at the moment. Normally she'd go straight to wherever the litter box happened to be at a given time.) Nathelees, phew! I'll take it.
(((The Noodle)))
Mogs
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Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
JaxBenji
Member Since 2020
Aww Mogs, I just caught up on your experience with the gaba
maybe a smaller dose next time? so sorry all the angst...I hope Lúnasa is okay FWIW, the 25mg tabs are more expensive BUT I have had success pouring the 100mg tab into a small dish and dividing it apprx in half (I'll give Jax 50mg for long car rides to our beach condo). Just a thought.You are so sweet checking on Jax. His dental went well - 2 extracted (his upper third molars). He was over drugged though so I can relate with you there...made me upset to see him SO drugged
. Technically, I think they dosed to his weight but of course every cat metabolizes things differently. Alas, here we are and he's on the mend now (36+ hours post surgery). I still haven't given more pain meds (perhaps tomorrow if I think he needs them...I have gaba for the weekend which will hopefully be enough). He's eating on his own now though not quite his zealous self but loads better than yesterday - I skipped insulin last night because I wasn't confident he'd eat...he was SO out of it.Hugs to you and Lúnasa
JL and Chip
Member Since 2009
Hey Mogs,
I’ve been following along and hope things improve soon. I have to say the reaction to the gaba gives me pause — I doubt I’d personally use it again at any dose.
Does Lunasa have any heart issues? Does she receive subQ fluids for her kidney impairment? I’m wondering if maybe a bit of subQ would help flush the system a bit faster, though of course only if not contraindicated.
I’m glad she’s eating some. As for her BP, what type of wonkiness is happening? Do you test that at home?
I’ve been following along and hope things improve soon. I have to say the reaction to the gaba gives me pause — I doubt I’d personally use it again at any dose.
Does Lunasa have any heart issues? Does she receive subQ fluids for her kidney impairment? I’m wondering if maybe a bit of subQ would help flush the system a bit faster, though of course only if not contraindicated.
I’m glad she’s eating some. As for her BP, what type of wonkiness is happening? Do you test that at home?
Teetee (UK)
Member Since 2019
How is she today Mogs?
I hope she's feeling better now.
I hope she's feeling better now.
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Hiya,
The perk-up was short-lived last night. About quarter of an hour or so after I posted the last update the Noodler retreated to the sofa and sank back into an exhausted sleep again. Later in the evening she went up to one of her hidey places and looked a bit depressed - and still somewhat spacey. Thankfully, this morning - 48 hours after administration of the gabapentin dose - she finally seemed more like herself. Her pupils are finally back to normal but she's been a bit hissy and aggressive a couple of times today. She got her first dose of bupe in nearly three days this morning and thankfully she's eating better since (needs it to help with GI discomfort), although she did get uncharacteristically hyperactive for about 30 minutes this afternoon. She's definitely more with it and has been much more active and alert today. It's very good to hear her trilling and chatting again. Certainly a big improvement on where she's been for the last two days. (((Lúnasa)))
Thank you all for supporting the two of us. I appreciate it so much.
Mogs
.
The perk-up was short-lived last night. About quarter of an hour or so after I posted the last update the Noodler retreated to the sofa and sank back into an exhausted sleep again. Later in the evening she went up to one of her hidey places and looked a bit depressed - and still somewhat spacey. Thankfully, this morning - 48 hours after administration of the gabapentin dose - she finally seemed more like herself. Her pupils are finally back to normal but she's been a bit hissy and aggressive a couple of times today. She got her first dose of bupe in nearly three days this morning and thankfully she's eating better since (needs it to help with GI discomfort), although she did get uncharacteristically hyperactive for about 30 minutes this afternoon. She's definitely more with it and has been much more active and alert today. It's very good to hear her trilling and chatting again. Certainly a big improvement on where she's been for the last two days. (((Lúnasa)))
Thank you all for supporting the two of us. I appreciate it so much.
Mogs
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Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Hi JL,
I am inclined to agree with you that a greater fluid intake might have helped flush the drug out of her system a bit better but she was in such a bad state on the day of the blood draw that I was only able to give her a very small amount of oral fluids and couldn't give her food for fear she might choke. I don't think that helped matters in terms of flushing both the drug and any toxins present from her system. As I mentioned above, at one stage on Thursday afternoon she did resemble what Helen from Tanya's Site describes in her section on cats in uraemic crisis. If that had persisted for any amount of time I'd have brought her straight back to the vets for fluids.
I managed to get more fluids into her yesterday, plus some food (about 40-50% of daily requirement) but it was gastro support kibble - easier on the gut while I couldn't give her any bupe but not a great help for flushing the system.
Re heart issues, Lúnasa has hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (developed secondary to hyperthyroidism in early 2017). Thus far, her resting respiration rate has remained good (15-20 breaths/min). When she last had scans, etc., apart from the thickening of the left ventricular wall, there was no sign of any other physical abnormalities. She does get intermittent short coughing bouts but it's eating that triggers them, not activity or drinking her soup - unless she eats and drinks too much at the one time. The current hypothesis is that acid reflux may be the trigger, or possibly asthma. Situation is being closely monitored.
Normally the readings taken in each session fall in a consistent range, diastolic blood pressure tracks upward and downward movements in systolic BP, and the curves on the meter display are a good height. When I was trying to take Lúnasa's BP/HR readings with the gabapentin in her system, the pressure readings were really erratic (not due to movement), diastolic pressure was significantly lower than it should have been a few times, plus the curves on the display were all over the place - and much reduced in height when I did manage to get reliable reading series. Cuff placement was fine, so that wasn't the cause. Also, despite 2 skipped doses, her SBP stayed solidly at 150 +/- 2 points while the gabapentin was affecting her. Under normal circumstances, if she'd skipped 2 doses of amlodipine her BP would have been well into the severely hypertensive range (>180), so the gabapentin was definitely doing something. Her resting heart rate did not seem to be similarly affected.
The Noodle's SBP was up to 168 early this afternoon and the readings late last night and this morning were much steadier. That plus the improvements in the Noodle's clinical signs from this morning seem to point to the gabapentin being cleared from her system.
Mogs
.
Lúnasa doesn't get sub-qs (our vets aren't fans of them) but thankfully I can normally manage her hydration quite well with oral fluids. In addition to what she takes in from her food and her water bowl, she gets 80-120mls of oral fluids per day (highly diluted cat soup), with which she gets her B vitamin and D-mannose supplements.
I am inclined to agree with you that a greater fluid intake might have helped flush the drug out of her system a bit better but she was in such a bad state on the day of the blood draw that I was only able to give her a very small amount of oral fluids and couldn't give her food for fear she might choke. I don't think that helped matters in terms of flushing both the drug and any toxins present from her system. As I mentioned above, at one stage on Thursday afternoon she did resemble what Helen from Tanya's Site describes in her section on cats in uraemic crisis. If that had persisted for any amount of time I'd have brought her straight back to the vets for fluids.
I managed to get more fluids into her yesterday, plus some food (about 40-50% of daily requirement) but it was gastro support kibble - easier on the gut while I couldn't give her any bupe but not a great help for flushing the system.
Re heart issues, Lúnasa has hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (developed secondary to hyperthyroidism in early 2017). Thus far, her resting respiration rate has remained good (15-20 breaths/min). When she last had scans, etc., apart from the thickening of the left ventricular wall, there was no sign of any other physical abnormalities. She does get intermittent short coughing bouts but it's eating that triggers them, not activity or drinking her soup - unless she eats and drinks too much at the one time. The current hypothesis is that acid reflux may be the trigger, or possibly asthma. Situation is being closely monitored.
I have an oscillometric meter and I monitor her BP daily at home. It has proved very necessary because I need the data to manage the dosing of her amlodipine, and it has been a real eye-opener how different meds and supplements can affect pressure levels. Sometimes the amlodipine takes her too low and I have to adjust the dose every few days. She had one episode of syncope on benazepril last year and I do not want to go there again. If she runs low, I decrease the dose, and when she gets higher again I increase. Rinse 'n' repeat. Not unlike managing an insulin depot.
Normally the readings taken in each session fall in a consistent range, diastolic blood pressure tracks upward and downward movements in systolic BP, and the curves on the meter display are a good height. When I was trying to take Lúnasa's BP/HR readings with the gabapentin in her system, the pressure readings were really erratic (not due to movement), diastolic pressure was significantly lower than it should have been a few times, plus the curves on the display were all over the place - and much reduced in height when I did manage to get reliable reading series. Cuff placement was fine, so that wasn't the cause. Also, despite 2 skipped doses, her SBP stayed solidly at 150 +/- 2 points while the gabapentin was affecting her. Under normal circumstances, if she'd skipped 2 doses of amlodipine her BP would have been well into the severely hypertensive range (>180), so the gabapentin was definitely doing something. Her resting heart rate did not seem to be similarly affected.
The Noodle's SBP was up to 168 early this afternoon and the readings late last night and this morning were much steadier. That plus the improvements in the Noodle's clinical signs from this morning seem to point to the gabapentin being cleared from her system.
We are of the same mind. This may cause an issue down the road with the vet if Lúnasa's arthritis becomes a problem. My enquiry a short while back about potentially treating with Adequan got shot down and the vet proposed treatment with gabapentin. After this episode? I think not.
Mogs
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Teetee (UK)
Member Since 2019
That's brilliant news Mogs, i'm glad she's feeling better now and eating and chatting.
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Quite.
Lúnasa's purpose in life is to enjoy the sound of her own voice.
(((Noodle)))
Mogs
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Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Now that the Noodle seems to be over the worst and I'm back to DEFCON 3 (my idea of 'normal') the elevated stress levels of the last couple of days are really hitting home. I'm completely banjaxed. I need to go and get heavily involved with my duvet.
Mogs
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I need to go and get heavily involved with my duvet.Mogs
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Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Hi Susanne,
Mogs
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Thanks for the Jax update. I'm glad to hear he's safely through his dental. They always make me nervous - even when they're for someone else's cat! I'm sorry they over-egged the anaesthesia. It really is both disturbing and distressing to see them out of it like that. I hope the soreness in Jax' mouth subsides really quickly.You are so sweet checking on Jax. His dental went well - 2 extracted (his upper third molars). He was over drugged though so I can relate with you there...made me upset to see him SO drugged
Mogs
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Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Here's an FYI for anyone following this thread.
I noted in an earlier post that the marvistavet.com Pharmacy Center listing for gabapentin contained a caveat about false positive results in urine protein tests for patients receiving gabapentin. Here is further information on this matter from Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook 6th edition:
Mogs
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I noted in an earlier post that the marvistavet.com Pharmacy Center listing for gabapentin contained a caveat about false positive results in urine protein tests for patients receiving gabapentin. Here is further information on this matter from Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook 6th edition:
Laboratory Considerations
There are reports of gabapentin causing false-positive urinary protein readings on Ames N-Multistix SG dipstick tests. The use of a sulfosalicylic acid precipitation test to determine presence of urine protein is recommended for patients receiving gabapentin.
There are reports of gabapentin causing false-positive urinary protein readings on Ames N-Multistix SG dipstick tests. The use of a sulfosalicylic acid precipitation test to determine presence of urine protein is recommended for patients receiving gabapentin.
Mogs
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Diana&Tom
Member Since 2009
@Douglas_my ginger cat - Anna, fyi in case this is of interest
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